Attempted anti conversion....


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DRZinn
July 6, 2004, 11:41 AM
So there I was the other night at a friend's birthday party, and a couple arrived fresh from seeing Michael Moore's latest drivel. They loved it so much (these are people that think NPR is "pretty even-handed" and everything MM says is the gospel) that they had to start telling everyone about it.

One thing led to another, and soon we were on gun control. :D

I tried everything I could think of. When she asked why I "needed" a machine-gun (speaking, BTW, of EBR's) and I asked why she needed a car that went faster than 65, she said "But a machine gun isn't a car!" She HONESTLY COULD NOT UNDERSTAND the analogy! It went on like this for four hours, and I got NOWHERE!

I'm going shooting.

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halvey
July 6, 2004, 11:55 AM
When she asked why I "needed" a machine-gun (speaking, BTW, of EBR's) and I asked why she needed a car that went faster than 65, she said "But a machine gun isn't a car!" It's hard to argue with people like that. Keep trying though. Something may click.

ProGlock
July 6, 2004, 12:17 PM
I would have simple said, "That's right, and a car isn't a machine gun".

You could have just went off on other analogies of how you aren't out lobbying for more car control, like assault cars with engines larger than a V6 or have those evil-looking spoilers that just mow people down en masse.

Or of course there is always the knife analogy.

Stickjockey
July 6, 2004, 02:23 PM
Or you could have pointed out that cars are used to kill many more people per year than machineguns.

Treylis
July 6, 2004, 04:48 PM
I would have asked, "Don't you think that people have the right to do anything and own anything so long as it does not harm anyone but another consenting adult?" and worked from there.

Remember--there are no criminal objects, only criminal actions.

geekWithA.45
July 6, 2004, 04:53 PM
Why do you need a machinegun?

Because there are days when anything less isn't enough. :evil:

Spot77
July 6, 2004, 04:53 PM
I've never needed a cardiologist, but that doesn't mean I don't want one nearby when I do.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 6, 2004, 04:56 PM
Yes, I usually answer "You're right - cars kill more people in one year than machineguns ever have." The response to this is usually:

A) Exposing ignorance of guns and mechanical function in general by displaying confusion over what a machine gun is and what laws govern them - gives you a good chance to explain these things

B) Argue that cars aren't meant expressly for killing

If B, then next step is to examine their attitude for self-defense by asking questions like, "Why do need police need something that is expressly for killing" or you can provoke them a bit by just agreeing and adding "Don't you think some things need to be killed?" - either way, you end up walking them down the self-defense path. At that point they either admit that they live in a dream world where no violent reaction is ever necessary or they acknowledge some degree of self-defense is a good thing.

Once you have that acknowledgement, it is pretty easy to just pound on them with questions that let them confront their own prejudices (something like "Why would you want something less than the most effective tool for self-defense if you believed you or your loved ones faced death or serious injury?")

Standing Wolf
July 6, 2004, 07:16 PM
She HONESTLY COULD NOT UNDERSTAND the analogy!

Not everybody has more than 75 I.Q. points. Accept it. Move on.

pinblaster
July 6, 2004, 08:09 PM
Standing Wolf, you beat me to the punch. There are some people that will never understand.

DRZinn
July 6, 2004, 11:37 PM
cars kill more people in one year than machineguns ever have

That occurred to me later - at the time I was struck dumb by the ignorance being displayed.

I've never needed a cardiologist, but that doesn't mean I don't want one nearby when I do.

And THAT one didn't occur to me, but I sure wish it had.[

Justin
July 6, 2004, 11:43 PM
I would have asked, "Don't you think that people have the right to do anything and own anything so long as it does not harm anyone but another consenting adult?" and worked from there. Depending on the person, saying this will either cause a lightbulb to glow or a fuse to short out.

jefnvk
July 6, 2004, 11:53 PM
Ask her why she neds lipstick or earrings. That gets people going.

Or a purse. Guys carry everything they need without one.

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