S 2062 on CSPAN 2


July 6, 2004, 07:15 PM
Chuck Grasseley is pleading for non germane amendments to not be offered or brought up.

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Bartholomew Roberts
July 6, 2004, 07:36 PM
Looks like they are going to adjourn after this speaker and continue tomorrow at around 10:30am Eastern. We probably won't know the schedule or amendments to be offered before then as the leaders will still be dealing.

July 7, 2004, 03:09 AM
is this the bill slated to get an attachment from fineswine?

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 09:14 AM
That is the one. Feinstein told the Virginia MMM in a conference call she would try and amend this bill with the sem-auto ban renewal.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 11:07 AM
They are debating now. Frist has proposed that there may be only 5 amendments from each side and they must be relevant to the bill. Daschle strenuously objects.

Republicans counter with unlimited amendments to bill; but MUST be related.

Daschle objects again and asks for 10 relevant and 5 non-relevant amendments.

July 7, 2004, 11:11 AM
Daschle objects again and asks for 10 relevant and 5 non-relevant amendments. We really need to get rid of this guy.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 11:18 AM
Frist slaps Daschle down and says only relevant amendments will be allowed.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 11:20 AM
Unknown Republican Senator with pork bill complains he has 63 co-sponsors and his non-germane amendment should be allowed.

July 7, 2004, 11:23 AM
So when do we start making phone calls? Should we wait until DiFi makes a move?

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 11:23 AM
Republican Senator is Larry Craig with an immigration bill. He is peeved the bill will not be allowed to be tacked onto S.2062 under the procedural rules Frist laid down.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 11:25 AM
Looks like it probably won't be necessary... I don't understand Senate rules perfectly; but if I understand correctly - Frist said that no unrelated amendments would be allowed - period. He pulled a procedural move he hasn't used since he became Senate Majority leader.

Anybody want to tell me there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats?

July 7, 2004, 11:31 AM
Can a brotha get a link?

July 7, 2004, 11:33 AM
Never mind...here ya go:


July 7, 2004, 11:34 AM
I love Orrin Hatch! :D

Tell it like it is!!

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 11:34 AM
Google CSPAN2.

One person we need to contact is Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN) and thank him for taking the stand to not allow any unrelated amendments. He pissed off a lot of Senators, even Republican ones, in order to shut down any avenue of attack from Feinstein early.

Frist has NEVER used this procedural method before today. So he is bound to be getting some heat over this. We need to send him a note thanking him for the support.

Hatch is up now supporting the Senate Majority Leader.

July 7, 2004, 11:38 AM
"We know what the game is around here."

"...amendments we know the House won't take."


Good stuff, Orrin.

July 7, 2004, 11:53 AM
Please, please, please tell me that Diane had the same type of procedural rules stuff pulled on her that she tried to pull on us.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 12:02 PM
Sen. Craig back up arguing that non-germane amendments should be allowed and saying that the majority has shot themselves in the foot because they won't be able to invoke cloture now.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 12:07 PM
The bloated drunk from Massachusetts is now railing against not being allowed to offer non-germane amendments. Children wail and animals flee in terror.

Kennedy want to offer a minimum wage amendment and an immigration amendment (same one Craig supports). Of course Republicans offered to allow both these amendments earlier and the Dems didn't want to play, they wanted to have all kinds of additional non-germane amendments.

July 7, 2004, 12:14 PM

Pardon my ignorance, while I'm watching the bloated Senator cry, ( and am tuning him out while I type this) but could you tell me if we should be concerned about Larry Craigs complaint that we can't have "cloture" now. That isn't a problem for us is it?

I do however like hearing Kennedy scream "The Republicans have closed us out!" :)

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 12:19 PM
Without cloture the bill can be filibustered; but the Republicans would likely pull the bill before that. They attempted a cloture vote on June 1, 2004 (this bill has been around forever) and they failed so they pulled it until more deals could be cut.

13 proposed amendments have been filed on this bill so far. Only ones mentioned by name so far are minimum wage and immigration.

Not sure if Frist could still limit proposed amendments to germane amendments if cloture isn't invoked. Not sure of the procedure used and the Congressional Record won't have the specifics until tomorrow.

July 7, 2004, 12:19 PM
With as much non-gun related conflict that seems to be going on, is there even a chance that DiFi can introduce her poison pill?

Or are these Dems arguing for Di's amendment while hiding behind this minimum wage stuff?

Help, Bart.

July 7, 2004, 12:27 PM
Bart and Thumper,

Now Democrat Dodd is crying. Another Democrat who just confessed to voting against the Gun Liability Protection Act Poor baby! :)

Seems to me that this is the best thing that Bill Frist has done for us, despite Larry Craigs protest, right? Is this not the best way to lock out DiFi's amendments right, and we couldn't hope for better?

July 7, 2004, 12:27 PM
With as much non-gun related conflict that seems to be going on, is there even a chance that DiFi can introduce her poison pill?

I'm thinking that it's not likely at this point she'll get the chance.. still worth calling though. I just called Frist's office with a "thank you, keep it up"
(one of the nice parts about being Tennessean now) . :)


PS... I do however like hearing Kennedy scream "The Republicans have closed us out!"
I gotta admit it is kinda fun to see him railing on and getting all red (rrrmm.. redder, anyway) in the cheeks. I keep hoping we'll see him blow a valve on the Senate floor one of these days. :)

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 12:30 PM
Or are these Dems arguing for Di's amendment while hiding behind this minimum wage stuff?

The Republicans offered to consider the minimum wage amendment the Dems said they wanted and offered to allow each side one non-germane amendment. The Dems objected and initially demanded unlimited amendments.

The kindest deal the Dems offered was each side take 10 related amendments and 5 unrelated. I'm far from a Senate expert; but it looks to me like they wanted to attach Feinstein's amendment.

July 7, 2004, 12:41 PM
I'm far from a Senate expert; but it looks to me like they wanted to attach Feinstein's amendment.

Yes, that's what it looks like to me too, and should be good news to us. (GREAT news in fact!)

But I thought Senator Craig was on our side side, and so it confusede me when I hear of his protesting Frist's actions. I was wondering if there was some kind of sacrafice we risk by doing this "No Amenments" rule. I think the only sacrafice was that our own Larry Craig couldn't load up this bill with his own pork amenments! -That's no hurt to our AWB concerns!

That's the only thing I wasn't sure of and checking with you about, to see if there's another angle of this that I was overlooking. It seems great to us that I can tell.

July 7, 2004, 12:48 PM
After all these years, I'm still bugged that these jerks don't even question the ethics of a "non-germane" amendment to a bill.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 12:57 PM
OK, I'm away from CSPAN for a bit. Someone else will have to keep watch.

July 7, 2004, 01:11 PM
Hatch is talking about the bill and Madison County, IL.

July 7, 2004, 01:20 PM
Daniel Akaka (D - Hawaii) is up.

Speaking about an ammendment of his. S 2344. I think it's something to do with making native Hawaiians eligible for "native american" status.

July 7, 2004, 01:24 PM
Dick Durrbin (D - IL) is up on the floor now. Supports S 2344, yadda yadda, he's honored, this that...

Irked that the ammendment might not come to a vote. Mad at Frist for "Filling the Tree" and stoping more ammendments. Yielding to Daschle.

This is an important ammendment, only one person has an objection to the ammendment, boo-hoo.

NOTE: The ammendment has been floating around for -5 years- and never considered in the floor. Let it wait longer. Let's hope they hold their ground and don't let any on the floor.

July 7, 2004, 01:26 PM
Sounds like we scored at least a temporary victory.

Honestly, I am hoping for a fillibuster. Let them waste time, the more time they waste, the less time for DiFi to get her wishes.


July 7, 2004, 01:27 PM
Daschle says they filled the tree to keep -this- version of the class action bill from passing.

Yields to Dick Durrbin (D - IL). Talking about the actual class action lawsuit bill again.

July 7, 2004, 01:29 PM
Durbin's explaining what a class action lawsuit is to the Senate. ***? A room full of lawyers probably knows how this works!

Killing time? I don't know.

July 7, 2004, 01:32 PM
Durbin says out of 316 (or something) suits filed in Madison Co over 8 years only 30 something have advanced... that's 5 per year. Seems like he's not in favor of this at all.

July 7, 2004, 01:48 PM
Minority time ran out, asked for an extension of 10 minutes.

July 7, 2004, 01:49 PM
The most fascinating thing isn't what's being said on the floor of the Senate, it's what isn't being said:

DiFi is holding ClassAction reform hostage to her ego bill.

Of course, I can't prove squat here, but my bet is that if DiFi went to Frist and said, "Fine, I give up. I'll STFU on the AWB for the year.", he'd stroll out and say something like, "OK, fine, let's get back to work".

July 7, 2004, 01:52 PM
Oh, I'm going to a meeting at 2:00pm EDT -- somebody might want to take over on this one.

July 7, 2004, 01:55 PM
<spit>Chucky Schumer</spit> (D - NY) is on the floor for 10 minutes.

July 7, 2004, 01:57 PM
Last one for a while from me. Schumer's going on about germane and non-germane ammendments.

They want to stick something on this pretty bad... whoa boy.

July 7, 2004, 02:05 PM
Just watch. If they cannot get the awb extension attached, the prices will continue to drop like a rock. I saw two 6551 colts on sturmgewehr the other day for 950 each delivered. Prices are going to drop more after the next day or so. These monkey senators look like a bunch of dorks.

July 7, 2004, 02:07 PM
The devil is on!!! :cuss:

July 7, 2004, 02:08 PM
DiFi's speaking, eating up the PROPONENTS time...he...the president pro-tempore gaffed, believing she was speaking in opposition.

So far, just blathering in the wind about nothing...

July 7, 2004, 02:08 PM
She's on the floor!!!!! AAAHHHHAAAHHHAHHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHH!!!!! Too late, biatch.:neener: :barf:

CZ 75 BD
July 7, 2004, 02:16 PM
complaining about trial lawyers!! How sweet is that, John Edwards.:neener:

July 7, 2004, 02:17 PM
I do not like that woman, fineswine.

July 7, 2004, 02:20 PM
keep me posted here guys,....

I'm in my office and can't watch c-span right now....
It's killing me to be out of the loop.

Thanks for all of the updates thus far:)

July 7, 2004, 02:20 PM
Few things offend me more than to hear DiFi talk about constititional intentions, when they suit her.

July 7, 2004, 02:23 PM
I am at school, so I can pick up the feed WITHOUT sound on this stupid computer. DANG!! What is that she-devil saying???

July 7, 2004, 02:23 PM
what's the URL?????

Thanks medic:)

July 7, 2004, 02:24 PM
You know what though, this is totally cool. Ten years ago you could not do this. Watch her online and chat with folks all across the country online at the same time. We have more power now than we did have. Thank goodness for the internet.

July 7, 2004, 02:26 PM
Class action lawsuits scare the crap out of anyone that has a lot of money (other than lawyers). Opposing a lawsuit to limit class action lawsuits will make some of their wealhier political donors think twice about their support, so I don't think the Dems want to oppose this bill, they just want to attach as many things to it as they can get through. If the bill fails because of the ammendments, they can say they tried, and tell the trial lawyers, whose support they also want, that they poisioned it with ammendments.

July 7, 2004, 02:26 PM
I too am stuck in the office...

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 02:26 PM
OK, here is the score:

Early on, Frist offered the Dems a deal to allow a certain number of germane and non-germane amendments. The Dems objected to that deal and two subsequent deals. As a result, Frist "filled the tree". This is the procedural method that GOA slammed him for not using in March.

Basically, if they vote yes for cloture, then Frist will be the sole judge of whether amendments are germane or not. Chances of semi-auto ban passing this scrutiny = zero.

If they don't invoke cloture, then the bill can be filibustered and amended without end. There are already 13 amendments filed to the bill and more would likely be added. Last time the bill failed a cloture vote (June 1), the Republicans immediately pulled the bill. This would likely happen this time too since it is unlikely the bill will go anywhere otherwise.

Best part is the Senate has limited time and they are wasting it wholesale. They adjourn July 26 and when they return only five days are left on the legislative calendar before the ban expires. So far, they have debated S.2062 since 6:00pm yesterday and they haven't even got to a cloture vote or any other vote yet. They spent most of this morning crying about the procedural maneuver.

July 7, 2004, 02:27 PM

Here it is!!!

July 7, 2004, 02:28 PM
You have to love our system of government.....Fineswine has been up there for ten minutes and, though her lips are moving, she hasn't said a darned thing. She's just blabbering....

July 7, 2004, 02:31 PM
thanks medic,

I'm now back in the loop and am listening to the blabbering first hand:)

you guys weren't joking about her lips moving but no infomation making it out

July 7, 2004, 02:37 PM
Thanks! just what I needed.

Funny to listen to her blah blah on isn't it?

The Undertoad
July 7, 2004, 02:41 PM
Thanks for the play by play, I can't participate this time, because no cable anymore. :)

July 7, 2004, 02:43 PM
looks like Diane is finished

Fritz Hollings is on...

nothing in the way of information

July 7, 2004, 02:43 PM
You know what most strikes me about this Feinstein witch right now as I watch her...........that she's as calm as a cucumber! Nothing at all like that balloon guy from Massof2????z, or a couple of those other rabid Democrats we heard from.

She Kind of gives me the impression like that she knows that she's being beat and defeated. -You know sometimes instead of feeling angry you're just depressed and feel like the wind has been let out of your sails.

July 7, 2004, 02:47 PM
I hate that that fool is from my state...

Back when I was a boy I'd go to charleston blah blah blah....

Man for what we pay them they do jack and S**t!

I have found my new job.. Vote me into the senate! I love BS-ing and hanging out doing nothing.

July 7, 2004, 02:53 PM
sheesh is anyone gonna say anything worth a darned?

...Man for what we pay them they do jack and S**t!

I'll reiterate the comment I heard once from a crusty ol' salt who put it the best...

"Thank God we don't get all the government we pay for."

July 7, 2004, 02:55 PM
Well put.... So How to get into politics.... I need this dude's job! I wish it was as easy as Eddie Murphy in "Distinguished Gentleman" I need a job like this! ;)

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 02:55 PM
Who elected Foghorn Leghorn to the Senate and when did he get senile?

July 7, 2004, 03:01 PM
Or are they trying to build up to a filibuster?

July 7, 2004, 03:04 PM
I'm just glad that I can turn him lower,.....:D

just look at the guy behind him and to the left...

I'm glad I'm not him:neener: :neener: :neener:
he must be soooooo bored.

July 7, 2004, 03:13 PM
Harry Reid is now on....
arguing with hollings

July 7, 2004, 03:17 PM
From Reid back to Hollings who is making no sense now.

Now he's whooping "Whoo!" over and over. ***.

July 7, 2004, 03:18 PM
Yup. ***.

It looks like they're just going to yank each other's chains till the cloture motion kicks in...I think someone mentioned the cloture vote was on Friday.

R.H. Lee
July 7, 2004, 03:24 PM
Who elected Foghorn Leghorn to the Senate and when did he get senile?

His best line ever: "Dere's a whooole lotta consumin' goin' on out dere"

July 7, 2004, 03:30 PM
I've been watching this most all morning also.

What I wouldn't give to see Cheney come out and tell Feinstein to "go f--- yourself!" right now. That'd really liven things up ...hell I'd probably start cheering too.

July 7, 2004, 03:35 PM
Anything happening now?

I hate not being able to watch this today...


Edited to add.....

Oopps.....the clock on here is an hour off for me, so I thought nothing had been posted in the last hour.


July 7, 2004, 03:37 PM
Dorgan's either been placed upside down in a trash can or my stream has cut down to a lower quality version.

He's rambling about trade with China and Japan and Korea now. Jobs, unions, labor laws. Yadd yadda yadda.

July 7, 2004, 04:17 PM
It really makes me mad to hear about people getting mad that they can't screw us by attaching nonrelated items. Not just with guns but anything. I seriously think that if it has nothing to do with the bill it shouldn't be in there. ANYTHING! I'm really mad now. Gotta calm down.....:fire:

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 05:11 PM
Still nothing going on, though Sen. Sessions pointed out that currently Americans work 189 days out of the year just to earn enough money to fund government.

July 7, 2004, 05:27 PM
Christopher Dodd (D - Conn) ranting about filling the tree. Says he's mystified. Support for Hawaii bill thing has 75 co-sponsors. Doesn't understand why they won't allow ammendments.

Only mentions the Hawaiian ammendment and some immigration ammendment and something to do with drugs. No talk about the AWB from him.

Me: What's keeping this bill with 75 co-sponsors from being passed on it's own?

July 7, 2004, 05:49 PM
Let the whining end! Good grief people! All this whining is sooo tedious.


"Suck it up and move on"

Ha ha. I am just listening to the audio so don't know who that was but it needed to be said.

July 7, 2004, 06:01 PM
What's keeping this bill with 75 co-sponsors from being passed on it's own?Guigabuist

I agree wholeheartedly with you Justin, if the bill is so great do it somewhere else and quit whining about not attaching it here. I am sure that all the whining is cuz they can't attach Feinstein's POS AWB bill.

July 7, 2004, 06:38 PM
Again and again before more silence meets the braudcast.
Wish there where mike feeds from the different recorders areas and other desks in front.

John Hicks
July 7, 2004, 06:59 PM
This thread actually got me watching CSPAN again (although then I was reminded why I stopped :) )

I too thought it was amazing that Senators were talking like they'd kill the bill out of spite because they couln't add irrelavent amendments to it.

Apparently they got used to using popular bills as conduits for their pork and special interest amendments. I agree with many on this forum, either the amendments are relelvant, or they are a separate bill.

My favorite part was the people who talked about how they are wasting time debating procedure when they have a lot to do and only a few more days to do it, but then ramble on for 10 minutes!!! Idiocy or hypocricy -- pick one Senator :D


July 7, 2004, 07:11 PM
He is asking for relevant bills to be brought up.
Not sure of how these rules are being applied.

And now I am hearing an anouncement of National LEO carry amendment.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 07:12 PM
They have set a cloture vote for Friday. Debate on S.2062 will continue tomorrow.

July 7, 2004, 07:13 PM
Did someone just bring nationwide LEO CCW to the floor? A senator had the bill read, but I'm not sure what that means.


Bartholomew Roberts
July 7, 2004, 07:15 PM
It was a third reading of the CCW bill. No effect other than they can bring it up pretty much anytime something else isn't scheduled now.

July 7, 2004, 08:57 PM
For those of you running Linux machines I finally dug up a proper Real player today. It's not on Real's website directly so I spent some time struggling with it.

You can download a generic installer (bz2) or RPM version here:
You probably want Linux/X86 -> Realplayer Beta -> Linux/x86 (Sun JDS1, others2)

I've run the .bin installer both on Redhat Enterprise Worskstation 3.0 and Debian 'testing' today and it's working perfectly.

I wish I had found this when S 1805 was on the floor!

[mod note: link changed; original links pointed at an old version of realplayer - 0.3.0]

July 7, 2004, 09:09 PM
I guess c-span coverage ended before this full aproval finished all oportunity to contest the HR218.
From another thread and LEAA looks like this is another one on the books.
We all know George will sign.
I would sugjest that since this is done now everyone accept this and act possitively and proactively support it. My $.02

July 7, 2004, 09:11 PM
Could you please explain that a little clearer? We're talking about the Senate, not the House.
CSpan2 cut away after the Senate adjurned for the night, to meet again at 10am tomorrow (or maybe Friday, I wasnt paying attention to the date they mentioned).


July 7, 2004, 09:28 PM

July 7, 2004, 09:38 PM


Looking up everything I can will take hours. They did not just allow a third reading. They passed it without debate, amendments, or objections.

July 7, 2004, 10:01 PM
Ok, that explains it, thanks for the LEAA link. The Senators were finishing up business rather quickly (it was after 7pm) so I didnt catch the unanimous consent part.

How in the world did the Antis let that get past them? I guess they all left early for dinner and Frist pulled a fast one?

Also, doesnt 218 allow CCW for retired cops? I remember part of Kali's AW ban was ruled unconstitutional (ability of current/former officers to buy AWs?) due to equal protection and allowing retired cops to do something normal civilians couldnt. That might be an interesting angle towards forcing nationwide CCW reciprocity.


July 7, 2004, 10:22 PM
Yes, it wil allow for retired officers to carry, as well. IIRC, the only restriction any local/state governments can make, is to regulate cary on property owned by the government. No other laws will apply, like the nonsense Ohio has to go through with the "must be in plain view on your person while in vehicle" crap. God, I feel sorry for them, but that's a whole 'nother thread....

July 7, 2004, 11:53 PM

Bartholomew Roberts
July 8, 2004, 09:00 AM
I can't believe I sat there and listened to them pass it and didn't even realize what was happening. It took about two minutes. I had to read the Congressional Record this morning to figure out what went on.

Looks like they added a pre-printed speech from Leahy into the middle of the Congressional Record.

July 8, 2004, 09:39 AM
I was in the same boat.

I read VaniB's post, thought about it...then went "oh, ok...whew."

Thanks for all your help Bart.

July 8, 2004, 09:53 AM
We also have to worry about Feinstein attaching her amendment to the class action reform bill, but from what I understand, no more amendments are allowed so we should be free & clear unless Frist drops the ball.


Bartholomew Roberts
July 8, 2004, 10:11 AM
We also have to worry about Feinstein attaching her amendment to the class action reform bill, but from what I understand, no more amendments are allowed so we should be free & clear unless Frist drops the ball.

This is only true if they are successful with the cloture vote this Friday. If that passes, no amendment can be offered without Frist's approval. If it doesn't pass any amendment can be offered and probably will as there are a ton of amendments waiting (13 already filed and more in the queue).

Last time they failed to invoke cloture on this bill (June 1), the Republicans pulled it immediately. Chance are good they would be unable to pass a bill before the ban expired if they don't get cloture. Even better, they have just wasted two of the 18 legislative days left before the sunset and have achieved nothing.

July 8, 2004, 10:50 AM
I have called Hutchinson's office already to find out *** is/was going on

I had called and spent 20 or 30 min yakking with their gun guy about why it hr-218 was baaad last week or when ever, and find out it passed by uninamous (?) consent

I'll post any reply I get (fat chance)

note same thing can happen with Difi's direct to the floor bill for the awb renewal

dark of the night unaminous consent sucks and that shows just how little backbones the reptiles have. and how much contempt they have for our rights.

I figure that the 9th short circuit will toss it in about 90 seconds. unless the New Jerk appellate court beats them too it.

note Hutchinson's office still hasn't answered if they would back hr-990 (citizen version of the hr-218)

check out http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm

and ask your misreps why these bills stay bottled up in committies til they die but trash like hr-218 and the plastic gun ban( Klingon disruptor ban I call it) get passed and signed by unaimnous consent


edit for sorry grammar sorry no speeelck

July 8, 2004, 04:11 PM
4PM + now and listening to Sen Gordon Smith cry about suicides and a bill to reduce same. Is this another target for her add-on?

The LE national carry - done deal for sure? When is it effective???

What happened S2062??

Anything else to watch for?


July 8, 2004, 04:20 PM
Senator Smith's son committed suicide, thus his concern. :(


Bartholomew Roberts
July 8, 2004, 04:23 PM
Nothing happening really...they are basically killing time with speeches while the Senators wheel and deal on the floor to get enough votes for the cloture vote on Friday. So far it looks like this won't have the votes and will go down again.

Next week the No Gay Marriage Amendment is scheduled, so no AWB options there either as the legislation has no chance of passing. Not that we should be less vigilant; but it looks like good news so far.

July 8, 2004, 07:50 PM
Kahrn - :uhoh: :o my bad. No one needs that. Did his bill pass?

Bartholomew Roberts - Thanks. Just don't want some sleeper to slide in here. Now that VA CCW allows more than one-gun-a-month I'd like to consider some post 9/13 purchases - without encumbrances.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 8, 2004, 09:12 PM
I'll be unable to pop in much tomorrow, so someone else will have to take over the watch to see if they get cloture or not. I'm predicting a "No" on cloture followed by an immediate tabling of S.2062.

Good prediction since they apparently voted on cloture tonight instead and it failed with a vote of 44 yes and 43 no (needed 60 to pass). The bill was not tabled though. I missed the final vote, so no idea where they are going with the bill but apparently they are still debating amendments tomorrow.

July 9, 2004, 09:13 AM
I heard cloture failed?anyone keeping an eye on this?

John Hicks
July 9, 2004, 09:56 AM
Yep, it failed. The bill is dead. Not sure how I feel about that -- state's rights versus federal reform.

At least they didn't get any "riders" attached, which kept things like AWBII off the bill (which is moot now).


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