Beat the rap but not the ride ....


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Foe[H]ammer
July 7, 2004, 06:18 PM
When did this become the norm? How do we change the norm? What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

I realise my questions are a bit immature, possibly even naive, but, at what point did the American public become so complacent that they actually factor into thier plans "you may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride"?

That is total crud if you ask me. I find it hard to believe that we as a people have trusted our elected, appointed and employed officials with that much power.

That is not my only gripe but it's one of my biggest. I'm a bit off center today after doing some research but are Americans (I include myself) so lazy we can't get our Govt to do our bidding through the system? BTW I'm trying to change my slothen ways and become more active.

At what point did the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness become the right to live, as long as you're willing to tolerate injustices done to you by criminals and the govt machine quietly .... oh and pay large sums of cash to those you've made responible for thier actions and barring that to thier immediate family.

Is it really to late to change it from within the system and too early to affect it from without?

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Foe[H]ammer
July 7, 2004, 07:19 PM
was my sentiment so poorly wrought or my sanity so poorly thought that after almost 40 views I get no response?

Sindawe
July 7, 2004, 07:27 PM
Yea, at least to me. I'm not quite sure I understand the source of your angst. It is that the U.S. is in that awkward stage, or the folks are so accepting of the loss of their inherent liberties?

Foe[H]ammer
July 7, 2004, 08:15 PM
I don't personally believe that the US is in an awkward stage. We are not a child learning to walk. We are a people learning to be free, again. I believe the people have yet to hold thier elected officials accountable for thier votes.

I also don't fully believe that the general populace is OK with higher taxes, bigger govt, less personal responsibilty (I know it seems that way but even most of the blue collar libs I talk to are a'gin it) and more mommy state.

I think that even Libs have lofty goals of making sure the poor are fed and the disenfranchised are represented. Going it about it the wrong way is an understatement.

Why have we not said to our reps "we didn't elect you to do this, you must pay, either with resignation or revolt"?

Taipei Personality
July 7, 2004, 09:04 PM
I believe Sindawe was referring to this quote:

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

- Claire Wolfe, 101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution

El Tejon
July 7, 2004, 10:29 PM
Breaking THR News: 2+2=4 is a conspiracy.:D

Relax, your quotation is a recognition of 4. Despite the hot air of gun shoppe commandos and Walter Mittys, if you use a weapon against a fellow human being, you may be arrested, for a myriad of reasons.

Standing Wolf
July 7, 2004, 11:20 PM
What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

J. Edgar Hoover did a lot to usher in the modern age of respect for law enforcement power at the expense of American law.

JohnBT
July 8, 2004, 07:49 AM
"you may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride?"

I've never heard this. What does it mean?

John

Foe[H]ammer
July 8, 2004, 07:54 AM
You may not go to jail for legally using a firearm(the rap), but it'll cost you a ton of money time and grief(the ride).

71Commander
July 8, 2004, 08:03 AM
You may not go to jail for legally using a firearm(the rap), but it'll cost you a ton of money time and grief(the ride)

Thanks for clearing things up.

Werewolf
July 8, 2004, 10:40 AM
I guess the only way to respond to this is to just go ahead and be blunt. Look up the word naieve - think about it - hard - then think about it some more - because Foe[H]ammer that's what you are. Naievety is not necessarily a bad thing as long as life is treating one right but it can get you killed if life stops treating you right.

It is naive to believe that the american public is concerned about freedom and freedom is what I think you were really asking about.

[depressing rant on]

Most americans today don't have a clue about FREEDOM. To them freedom means having a job, bringing home a paycheck and being able to spend it on what ever they want to spend it on. To others freedom is the right to accept handouts from the government. To others freedom is the right to take your money and give to those with their hands out.

Does a free man have to ask permission to build a home on his own property, fish on his property, plant what ever crops he wants or hunt on his property? In the USA you do.

Does a free man have to ask permission to start a business or decide who he sells to or even when? In the USA you do.

Does a free man have to ask permission to buy a weapon? In the USA you do.

Does a free man have to ask permission to speak his mind before an election? In the USA you do.

Does a free man have to submit to being treated like a criminal and searched invasively just to travel? In the USA you do.

Does a free man have to give up his property to the city so a walmart can be built on it? In the USA you do.

Does a free man have to register his children with the government at birth? In the USA you do.

I could go on and on - but you get the idea.

Freedom died ages ago in this country. Most people are either too self absorbed and/or too stupid to realize it. Even those that do realize it are too comfortable with their current lifestyle to be concerned with the loss of their freedoms or are too paralyzed with fear of losing their comfort to do anything about it.

You may as well abandon those inferred dreams of yours of ever seeing a people that take back their freedoms from the government that has stolen them. That government understands only too well the concept of "Bread and Circuses". Keep their bellies full and their minds entertained and the sheep pretty much could care less about anything else.

And since the government controls the schools it's only going to get worse. The children being educated today will grow up more indoctrinated than ever to believe that government is mother, father and holy protector of the people and that the people exist to serve government and not that government exists to serve the people.

In 100 years the concepts of personal responsibility and freedom will be dead in the USA. Those concepts are already mostly dead in the rest of the world.

I'm just glad I'm old and I won't be around to see Lady Liberty finally die.

Cool Hand Luke 22:36
July 8, 2004, 10:57 AM
You may not go to jail for legally using a firearm(the rap), but it'll cost you a ton of money time and grief(the ride)

There are a few things which can mitigate this:

-pre-paid legal service or legal insurance.

-will your homeowners insurance pay your legal fees if the shooting occurs in your home or on your property?

-defendents may seek recompense for legal fees after acquital in a lot of criminal cases, or a favorable judgement in a civil case.

However, you're pretty much on your own financially if you decide to forment armed rebellion against the Government.

Cool Hand Luke 22:36
July 8, 2004, 11:15 AM
And since the government controls the schools it's only going to get worse. The children being educated today will grow up more indoctrinated than ever to believe that government is mother, father and holy protector of the people and that the people exist to serve government and not that government exists to serve the people.

Sheep?

You're drawing way too pessimistic a picture. For example, the largest religious denomination in the US, the Southern Baptists, came close just 2 weeks ago, to adopting a resolution urging all members to withdraw their children from the public schools and either home-school them or get them into the Baptist parochial schools. They will most likely adopt such a resoultion in the next few years.

Additionally; the Catholic schools are still doing a good job of educating a whole lot of kids, apparently without any major problems associated with sexual abuse; the charter school concept is becoming widely adopted; school voucher programs are edging towards becoming a reality; and just_plain_home_schooling is almost universally recognized as legal in every State.

Finally, not every public school is a violent, leftist hell hole with discipline reminiscent of the novel "The Lord of the Flies." Some are quite good, with the magnet school concept working well in many cases.

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