Part of a email a faimly member sent me (help)


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Demon440
July 9, 2004, 07:33 PM
This is my wifes aunt, telling us to vote for Kerry. Help me with a response please.


I hope you will vote for Kerry. One
reason is that the Republicans would like to end all public education and
have schools privatized. You would certainly not have the scholarship you
have now, or even a government student loan, under their plan. College costs
keep going up and soon will only be for the rich, if this continues... And
another reason is that I worry... what would happen to your mother, for
example, if she got sick during an extended Republican regime? Since they
want to end not only Social Security and Medicaid, but also Medicare and
affordable prescription drugs..who would be able to cover the costs of even
one hospitalization for her? I know if that had happened with my mother,
Steve and I and the rest of the family would not have been able to afford to
help her out very much. We all need to have health care insurance, and the
people of this country do want that. So I wonder, why can't we?

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GnL
July 9, 2004, 07:45 PM
How about this:

You won't need schools, Social Security, Medicare, or health care if John Kerry gets elected because you'll be blown up, gassed, or nuked by Muslim extremists.

Demon440
July 9, 2004, 07:53 PM
well I do like that but I want to be nicer and want to talk about helth care, but just dont know much.

Mulliga
July 9, 2004, 07:55 PM
Onereason is that the Republicans would like to end all public education and have schools privatized
Errr...how many Republicans want to do this? :confused:

Since they want to end not only Social Security and Medicaid, but also Medicare and affordable prescription drugs..who would be able to cover the costs of even one hospitalization for her?
Again, how many Republicans support this? I'd guess close to none.

This is the result of brainwashing, plain and simple. Republicans simply don't support these drastic measures - libertarians do.:evil:

Having attended public schools my entire life (I'm in a state university right now, too), I can say from experience that they aren't for everyone. If some lower/middle class family wants to send their kids to a school with more discipline and a focused curriculum (whether secular or religious), that should be their right. Kids aren't the same, so why should schools be standardized?

Social Security is a time-bomb, and I think everyone acknowledges this. As for government-subsidized health care, I hate to sound heartless, but you should pay your own way - it's not fair to take from other people (through taxes) when you are sick. Save some money, get your family/friends to help you, get a loan - there are a lot of ways to get some money to help you through tough times. And if that fails, there's always private charity, which is almost always more efficient than bloated government policy.

GnL
July 9, 2004, 07:58 PM
want to talk about helth care

What does this statement mean? You are in favor of taxpayer-funded health care? A la Hillary?

OF
July 9, 2004, 07:59 PM
Here's what I'd send her:


Thanks for your thoughts, Auntie. I'll keep them in mind. See you soon!

love,

- Gabe


I still believe that you have to keep a certain respect for your family elders, and it doesn't matter if you agree with what they say or not. I would not feel comfortable getting into a political argument with an older family member. But maybe it's only Italian families where this is the way it is...so YMMV.

Chris Rhines
July 9, 2004, 08:02 PM
Onereason is that the Republicans would like to end all public education and have schools privatized Lord, I wish! If that were true, that would be a reason to vote for the Republicans.

You would certainly not have the scholarship you have now, or even a government student loan, under their plan. Ridiculous. Among other things:
- Private schools offer plenty of scholarships right now, why would this be different if all schools were private?
- The government has no business offering tax-funded credit to anyone.



I suppose calling your wife's aunt a running dog commie is out of the question, huh? :D

- Chris

Demon440
July 9, 2004, 08:08 PM
What does this statement mean? You are in favor of taxpayer-funded health care? A la Hillary?
I dont know, I would like to know how it is now. I dont know anything about Medicaid or Medicare. I have a regular job (making guns:D ) with insurance and just dont know how it is if you are old and poor.

yep I am kinda with you there GRD. But this is about the 3rd or 4th time they have sent us political anti bush stuff, always laced with nice loving comments towards us. We have just ignored for now, but I think they are on to us now after I had to tell them I dont like mike moore.

Thank you eveyone.

ksnecktieman
July 9, 2004, 08:09 PM
I will only address the health care issue. You should surf a little, and find out about Canada's health care. If you are not dying you have an extreme wait for a doctor visit, and even if you have a serious disease that has been diagnosed, it does not mean you will get care. The rich from canada are crossing the border to pay our doctors for their care.
Socialised medicine does NOT WORK,,, why would it work? If the government is paying a doctor, and you can make more in the civilian sector doing something else, how can you keep doctors?

My answer can be simplified to TANSTAAFL,,,,,, =,,,,, There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

More benefits for everyone, and less taxes for everyone,,,,, the most used campaign slogan in the last century, sorry, people,,, someone has to pick up the tab.

boofus
July 9, 2004, 09:01 PM
Simple. Ask her if she was on trial for 1st degree murder, would she want her own attorney or a state provided one?

Why should it be any different in health care or education? Get your own doctor or do you want some state provided quack that will get paid no matter how shoddy a job he does? America is the land of choice, those liberal communists want to make it the land of 1 choice... Government provided everything. :barf:

The people that opt not to use the government's health services should not have to foot the bill for those that do.

I don't recall the Republican platform being to end all those programs. Libertarians maybe but definitely not the spend-crazy Repubs. Lol, if you really want to rile that relative up, mention that the Libertarians want to gut all of those things plus FDA, EPA, FCC, NEA, and ATF. And you're voting for them. :D

R.H. Lee
July 9, 2004, 09:32 PM
Find out where she gets this "information". If it is a website, for example, find other, easily defeatable, claims/statements therein. Discredit them and by extension, the opinions expressed in the email.

No4Mk1*
July 9, 2004, 09:38 PM
Why do people whine so much about having to pay for their goods and services? Why can't you pay for your family's own home, food, healthcare, education, and retirement? Why is it my job to pay for your retimement if you were not smart enough to save money during your 50 year career from age 20-70? Why didn't you save enough money to pay for your healthcare? Did you think you would never be sick? I need to save for my own expenses and It would be easier if 1/2 of all the money I earn is not taken by the government because others are too stupid to manage money properly. I see government money in use and it is amazing how it is wasted by so many people who don't care and feel no shame in wasting other peoples' money.

That said, I understand there are times when nature's events make someone disabled and thus poor and charity could handle these people. I see people almost every day who claim they cannot work because of illness, but almost all of them are quite able to talk, walk, see, and use their hands.

Freedom is earning your own money and chosing what to do with it.
Slavery is giving all your earnings to your master who choses how to spend your earnings.
We live somewhere in the middle, but say that we are "free."

Ieyasu
July 9, 2004, 09:38 PM
Help me with a response please.

Demon440,

What kind of response are you looking for? Do you want a rebuttal, and from what point of view (ie. Republican)? Are you voting for Bush because of gun issues, and don't want to say that to them? Are you undecided and just don't want to be bothered with stuff like this because you don't have an interest in politics? There are a hundred different ways one could respond to your request. This is a very brief example of one approach, but it may not be for you and your relatives...

Dear so-and-so,

Unfortunately it's difficult to discuss many of the issues you have brought-up because the real facts and issues are buried in political rhetoric. Instead of examining the issues with unbiased facts and analysis, I find the phrasing of issues in a pejorative manner discouraging. For example in your last letter to me you wrote:

"Republicans would like to end all public education and have schools privatized."

Re-stating the issue in a less belittling fashion, should families be allowed to select the public or private schools of their choice and have all or part of the tuition paid? There must be something wrong with public schools if such a system would cause ALL public schools to vanish. Further, I'm not aware that the majority of Republicans are behind this idea. For that matter, I don't know where I stand on the issue either. It's quite complicated, as are many of the issues you have mentioned.

-----

Well, of course the letter would continue, but again it depends on the angle/approach you want to use, and as stated, the above is just one of many, many possibilities.

capt_happypants
July 9, 2004, 11:17 PM
Just tell her that the EvilBushCheneyHalliburton Dissent Squashing Squad is inbound via helo.

She needs to step away from the door - the VRWC Overlords insist that we breach the door with 10 lbs of C4.

On the plus side, there isn't much need for an entry after the fuze detonates.

Christ, I was half-expecting her to say that Bush puts innocent puppies in blenders for his daily constitutional.

You can try to convert her, but she's family, and it's not really worth it to strain a relationship over politics.

modifiedbrowning
July 9, 2004, 11:48 PM
Tell her that if the government didn't have all these social programs they would not be stealing so much of her money in the form of taxes.Then she would be able to afford those services on her own.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
July 11, 2004, 12:03 AM
Privatizing education and giving you the choice of where to send your children for an education you believe in makes it worse than forced bussing to Government schools how?

Regards,
Rabbit.

Delmar
July 11, 2004, 01:07 AM
Since they want to end not only Social Security and Medicaid, but also Medicare and affordable prescription drugs..who would be able to cover the costs of even one hospitalization for her?

Unless Hillary has switched parties, aren't the Democrats the ones who keep yelling for socialized medicine in this country?

For those who think its the way to go, may I direct you to the nearest VA hospital-oh, sorry, the Bureau of Veterans Affairs Facility. The people who work at the Dallas hospital do the best they can, but are chronically understaffed. If the government cannot take care of the veterans, how in the world do they expect to take care of the entire country?

I am for letting people invest their hard earned bucks in a retirement plan which earns a better rate than SS. Isn't their interest rate something like 1.5%?
US savings bonds pays better than that, and if the day comes when those aren't worth anything, we have a whole lot more problems than worrying about a retirement check.

Reno
July 11, 2004, 01:24 AM
Just tell her she's confused Republicans with Libertarians, and that the R's want to keep and expand most of what she whined about.

Demon440
July 11, 2004, 02:53 AM
Again I thank you all very much for your input. I will first start with the fact that she is confusing Republicans with Libertarians, because that is a fact that I knew but did not think of because of the glaring left mindedness content in the text. Then I'll work on socialized education because government funded college is really BS. Why should hard working people have to pay for a bunch of college students that don’t want to work and just loaf off us! What are they better then I because I like the job I have? They are adults and can pay for it them selves if they want it. However Healthcare I will go easy on because I am not sure where I stand on that right now. I know it seems that everything government get its hand into becomes a big mess and is highly inefficient. But on the other hand, how can one save enough for hospital bills if they are retired and cant afford insurance. What about the ones who do mess up and are not responsible. I don’t know I still can’t seem to get past just leaving people to die because they are stupid or whatever. I know this thread has been kind of scatter brained and direction less but it is helping me deal with area in politics a lot.

M2HMGHB
July 11, 2004, 04:33 AM
Ya'll hear about the scholarship programs for illegal immigrants in some states? My gf told me bout it, shes legal from Cuba, was goin to me how the illegals get this and that then whine about how the country treats em etc... Sorry for the thread drift but just thought it needed to be said htat crud is happening.

benEzra
July 11, 2004, 04:20 PM
As far as health care--my 5-year-old son has been at Boston Children's Hospital three times (twice for open-heart surgeries), and you'd be surprised how many families from England we've met there, who are making deep financial sacrifices so their kids can get quality care that the British government-run NHS apparently won't give them.

Zrex
July 11, 2004, 04:24 PM
You should point out that she forgot to mention that republicans eat babies and worship the devil. :D

capt_happypants
July 11, 2004, 04:34 PM
Zrex,

We stick puppies in blenders, worship Gozer the Gozerian, and stew babies.

Good Lord, is anyone screening the newbies at VRWC Central?

;)

Zrex
July 11, 2004, 04:38 PM
Maybe I should have said "we republicans". Although I used to be a Libertarian - probably still am - I have decided the best way to focus my efforts is through the Republican Liberty Caucus.

Ya know - change the party from within..... Even though no one seems to listen to them, at least they can win an election.

Firethorn
July 11, 2004, 11:10 PM
I'd point out how it was Bush and a Republican House & Senate voted in the prescription healthcare benefit as well.

I know many of us don't agree with it, but a direct contradiction can help start the thinking process. I had to re-educate my own grandparents (they voted for Clinton!)

JPL
July 11, 2004, 11:30 PM
With all respect for your family, your Aunt isn't very bright if she believes this.

joe sixpack
July 13, 2004, 01:09 AM
"Dear Aunti-in-law,

Please do not concern yourself with such matters, after all
it will be "off to the gulag" with you soon anyways..."
;)
cheers, ab

Mikul
July 13, 2004, 11:07 AM
And another reason is that I worry... what would happen to your mother, for example, if she got sick during an extended Republican regime? Since they want to end not only Social Security and Medicaid, but also Medicare and affordable prescription drugs

HA!!
The absolutely huge expansion to Medicare was made with the addition of the prescription drug benefit. Which party was in control of the house? Republicans. Which party was in control of the senate? Republicans. Which party did the President belong to? Hmmm, could it be the Republican Party? Yes it could. Sure, it's amazingly expensive and is likely to bankrupt the entire country, but they're certainly not scaling back on the benefits.

Oh, now that I've breathed and some oxygen is getting to my brain, my recommendation is to reply by saying, "I had no idea that the Republicans were planning to privatize education and do away with student loans. Where did you get this information?"

That should keep her busy for a million years.

Molon Labe
July 13, 2004, 12:09 PM
the Republicans would like to end all public education and have schools privatized.Good.

You would certainly not have the scholarship you have now, or even a government student loan, under their plan.Less welfare. Good.

College costs keep going up and soon will only be for the rich, if this continues.Wrong. It’s not a rich vs. poor thing. If someone wants to go to college (which is not a right), they should pay. Just like any other service.

what would happen to your mother, for example, if she got sick during an extended Republican regime? Since they want to end not only Social Security and Medicaid, but also Medicare and affordable prescription drugs..who would be able to cover the costs of even one hospitalization for her?No one has a right to healthcare. No one has a right to force their neighbor at gun point to pay their doctor bills. If someone wants healthcare, they need to pay for it. Just like any other service.

DevilDog
July 13, 2004, 01:40 PM
Sometimes I think I vote to the right because I see greater mistruths from the left describing the other side.

The right is more in favor of things like school vouchers for private schools. The left transforms this to be "they want all schools to be private so only the rich can get educated". Oddly, public school teachers have a higher percentage of their own children in private schools than the rest of the general populace.

The right is more in favor of ideas that lean toward opting out of social security. The left describes this as wanting to take away the elderly's money. Not very many things burn me up as hearing some cackly old person's voice on a political ad... "please don't let them nasty republicans take away my social security/medicare/whatever". If you want to see how much our retired people are "suffering", go tour a retirement neighborhood in Pheonix or in Florida. Not a single country in the world does a better job of taking care of so many retired people.

The right is against gun control, so the left describes this as "they want everyone to be able to buy machinguns from a convenience store and carry them everywhere. Oddly, many pro-gun control senators/congressman are know to have ccw's.

College - if costs are getting too high, why are more people in college every year and why are more getting degrees?

Yes, the right takes issues out of context with the left too, it just doesn't seem to be as much. Considering this country has been on a constant trend to the left since forever, I think it is safe to say the left is better at it.

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