SA 1911 Loaded Problem...


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Redlg155
July 11, 2004, 02:37 AM
Well folks,

My primary "Go to" gun broke on me today. The shooting session went fine until I decided to shoot my carry ammo out so I can rotate it. After the 3rd round of Speer 200gr Gold Dot+P I found that the hammer had no tension. Upon dissasembly I found that the hammer strut had broken at the junction where it tapers small enough to enter the main spring housing. When I punched for the mainspring housing, everything just fell out.

Two problems were immediately evident.

1. The hammer stut failed by shearing in half.
2. There was no retainer pin in the main spring housing to hold back the main spring cap. I'm not too familiar with the design of the ILS that SA uses, but there is definitely a hole at the top designed for a pin.

So now I need to contact SA and get them to sent me a new hammer strut and retainer pin for the main spring cap. Why this hangun made it out of the factory without the retaining pin in place, I have no idea.

I'm definitely considering buying a new MSH without the ILS. I'm going to contact SA on monday, so hopefully they will just send me the parts without any grief.

Anyway..good thing it didn't fail me when I needed it most.

Good SHooting
Red

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1911Tuner
July 11, 2004, 04:43 AM
Howdy Redlg,

First off...the Springfield ILS mainspring housing doesn't have a
retaining pin in it. The hole where the pin normally goes is a takedown hole for that little bent rod to capture the spring and cap so you can
remove the housing easier during a detail strip. If you go with a standard
set-up, you'll need a standard cap and mainspring...23 pounds...a pin,
and a standard firing pin spring. You may also want to consider a
steel firing pin. Springfield uses the smaller diameter .38 Super/9mm
firing pin in their .45s caliber pistols...I like the Ed Brown hardcore pin.

Second, the strut is like all the other small parts in the gun...MIM...and
a Springfield replacement will be another one just like the one that broke.
MIM...or as I refer to it..."Near Steel" is suitable for some applications,
but not for others. Struts ain't one of'em that it's suited for.

I'd recommend ordering a stock Colt strut from Brownells when you change
out the mainspring housing to standard. pn 160-113-250 About 5 bucks
plus shipping. Those are blanked, heat treated barstock, and are wicked strong. Call 1-800-741-0015 and talk to the nice folks. If you want, I'll
give part numbers for the mainspring...firing pin spring...mainspring cap,
and retaining pin too. If you're okay with a black nylon Colt arched mainspring housing, PM me. I'll give you one. Never had one of'em break.

Luck!

Tuner

Gunsnrovers
July 11, 2004, 05:44 AM
What he said... :)

Quick call to Brownells and you'll get all the parts you need and will be back in business in just a few days. Quicker then a service call to SA and a better long term solution.

Jeff

Old Fuff
July 11, 2004, 09:57 AM
I am at a loss as to why people - especially those who read Tuner's threads on this forum - are willing to stake their necks on such trash. These are harsh words, but well supported by the number of posts that pose story after story of problems with these pistols. :cuss:

Tuner's advise will take care of the current issue, and you would be wise to follow it. But you would be even wiser to not stop there and have the whole gun rebuilt, and in particular replace the slide stop and sear at least. For a full understanding of the many things that might be wrong with your gun do a search and read all of Tuner's threads on the subject.

You can have a reliable, not likely to break pistol - but that isn't what you have now. :scrutiny:

1911Tuner
July 11, 2004, 11:38 AM
Aw c'mon Fuff! Don't mince words now...Tell'em how ya REALLY feel.:D

Redlg...sadly, my man Fuff is right on the money. Ya might as well order a
Brown hardcore extractor while ya got Brownells on the horn. That'll be the
next thing that goes south...probably.

Extractor #...087-813-070

If you want to replace the sear, I strongly recommend having a smith replace the hammer and disconnect along with it.

Nowlin sear # 654-270-101 and I've had about a 50/50 drop-in rate
with the Brown Hardcore barstock hammer with that sear...
# 087-000-009 (blue) and # 087-000-010 (stainless)

The briley barstock disconnect has also worked well with that combo
with the least amount of fitting and prep. # 129-121-000

The Wilson Bulletproof slidestop is the only aftermarket stop that I know of
that's machined barstock. #965-414-000(blue) #965-000-101(stainless) Pricey at about 50 bucks, but very tough.

For steel thumb safeties, about the only way to get real steel is to get lucky
and find an older Colt commercial or a good USGI part. Ditto for the grip safety.

Gotta run go do with these Collies...They're chompin' at the bit. I'll look up the numbers on the springs, mainspring cap, and pins in a bit.

Luck!

Tuner

Rival
July 11, 2004, 01:05 PM
So, Tuner, if I want my Springer Loaded done (I have a stock full size stainless one) - replace all the MIM parts with steel forged ones, is there one place where I can send it to and have it all done by a Smith? How much is it going to run?

1911Tuner
July 11, 2004, 02:32 PM
Rival asked:

Is there one place where I can send it to and have it all done by a Smith? How much is it going to run?
______________________

Howdy Rival,

Parts costs can be found in Brownells catalog. USGI parts as noted
cost whatever the market will bear...but the thumb safeties are gettin'
scarce. Ditto the mag catches.(Forgot to list that one) Grip safeties
seem to do okay in MIM...at least the good ones do. Mainspring housings
do okay with investment casting, and all the aftermarket housings are cast.

USGI and older Colt commercial triggers are also hard to come by. The

biggest grip that I have with the aftermarket is the material/heat treatment
of the bow in most. Dlask, King's, and McCormick seem to be the best of the lot, though I don't have extensive experience with any aftermarket trigger. Videki was myaftermarket trigger of choice until they disappeared.

MGW makes good barrel bushings. Haven't used any of the others to make a call on. EGW makes good stuff. I'm espically fond of their
firing pin stops.

I would recommend getting Colt hammer. sear. and both mainspring housing pins. Ditto for mainspring cap and plunger.

Colt already uses steel hammers and slidestops, in case you have one
of those.

Smith labor costs will vary from smith to smith, and depending on what
extra work you want...i.e. Full trigger job, or just replace the group and
adjust for correct function.

Hope this helps..

Tuner

Redlg155
July 11, 2004, 05:11 PM
Tuner..thanks for all the help!

I think I'll definitely lose the ILS MSH and replace it as well as replacing the extractor.

I'm PM'ing ya about the Colt arched MSH.

Ohhh..and Olf Fuff...you know how us "youngsters" are! You can tell us, but we won't learn until it happens. Just like I've always heard and soon to find out with my 16year old daughter..."You raise them up the best you can, and hopefully when they get out on their own, they will come back to what they learned from you."

Right now I dont't think I'll mess with the trigger and sear as they seem to be a low stress part. I will however junk that two peice guide rod in favor of the standard GI setup. I hate to have a tool just to field strip my pistol!

Good Shooting
Red

Old Fuff
July 11, 2004, 05:16 PM
Tuner ... The Old Fuff is indeed in rare form ... and totally fed up with junk being foisted off on people that may stake their lives on it. :fire: :banghead:

There is no way I can say what I really think and not get kicked off The High Road. Such words are not for children or the faint of heart. :evil:

Old Fuff
July 11, 2004, 05:22 PM
Redlg155:

>> Old Fuff...you know how us "youngsters" are! You can tell us, but we won't learn until it happens. <<

By the time you learn your daughter may not have a Daddy anymore ....

No, the "Fuff" doesn't mince words.

Redlg155
July 11, 2004, 05:26 PM
Tuner...

Am I going to need a series 70 or 80 for the extractor? I just looked them up on brownells and they list both types.



By the time you learn your daughter may not have a Daddy anymore ....

Ahh...that's why I ALWAYS have a backup.

Good Shooting
Red

1911Tuner
July 11, 2004, 05:28 PM
He said:

No, the "Fuff" doesn't mince words.

Aha! Politically incorrect, huh? I knew it...I just knew it.

:D

if it's any consolation, the Old Tuner is fixin' ta stop mincin' around the
issues and start gettin' cranky like Fuff.

:cuss: :fire: <--------Practicin' for my debut. How'm I doin' so far?

:cool:

1911Tuner
July 11, 2004, 05:30 PM
Howdy Redlg... Series 70 type. Extractor #...087-813-070
Either one will work in the Springfield, but that's the number for Series 70.

Old Fuff
July 11, 2004, 05:47 PM
Tuner:

If we both start telling the truth as it really is we'll either have to start our own forum .... or they'll have to put word filters on this one ... :fire: :fire: :fire:

Redlg:

A backup is a good idea, but as a rule it isn't as effective as your primary sidearm, and if the first one goes bad unexpectedly, and at the wrong moment you may not have time to use the backup before the shooting's over. People forget that when lead is going both ways, delay can be fatal. This being the case a reliable primary gun is an imperative. The backup is only extra insurance.

Dave Sample
July 11, 2004, 06:06 PM
I selected a trigger group for the Online 1911 PATRIOT Class that drops in and works very well with very little help from the Students. I use an Ed Brown Hammer Strut and I do not care what steel it is made of, it works great.

George Hill
July 11, 2004, 06:21 PM
If you own a Springfield pistol, why pay for a gunsmith to do what Springfield will do for free?
Call Springfield and tell them what is what, they'll be more than happy to hook you up. Springfield, like only a few other companies out there, really want you to be happy with them. They will bend over backwards to make you happy... for the life time of owning the gun... even if you are not the original owner!

Sure wish Detonics was that way!

THAT is why I would buy a Springfield 1911 over any other 1911. I know not everyone is happy with Springfield... But I am. They earned my loyalty the hard way. And I can't say that about any other gun company.

Gunsnrovers
July 11, 2004, 06:50 PM
Without getting into a MIM discussion, does anyone have a date when Springfield started putting MIM parts in their pistols?

Rival
July 15, 2004, 12:11 AM
Tuner I compiled a little list of parts that I am planning to get for my stainless Springfield Loaded, take a look and tell me if I am missing something...

I would really like to get a steel magazine catch, can't seem to find one... Don't care much about safety lever(s), should I? Also you promised to get part numbers for them pins...

965-415-070 415,70 SERIES 70 BP EXTRACTOR $27.95 $27.95 In Stock
965-000-010 414S BULLET PROOF SLIDE STOP, S/STEEL $51.95 $51.95 In Stock
965-416-000 416,45 BULLET PROOF FIRING PIN $8.95 $8.95 In Stock
965-399-070 399B,70 SERIES 70 FIRING PIN STOP $17.50 $17.50 In Stock
654-270-101 202PRO NOWLIN PRO MATCH SEAR $19.95 $19.95 In Stock
087-000-010 897 S/STEEL BARSTOCK HARDCORE HAMMER $54.95 $54.95 In Stock
129-121-100 1911 AUTO BLUE DISCONNECTOR $15.00 $15.00 In Stock


Total Amount : $196.25

Wichaka
July 15, 2004, 01:03 PM
Rival if you're wanting someone to do the work for you, send it up north here to me and I'll take care of it for you. Tuner knows me from the other forums, although he hasn't seen my work...........he seems to know my mother!?

I build 1911's for LEO's only, but what you're wanting won't take long, I can fit it in.

C96
July 16, 2004, 01:40 AM
Rival - I'm following/using many of Tuner's suggestions and here are some
of the numbers that you might want.

Ed Brown makes:
855 Magazine Release Stainless $21.95
814-S Rebuild Pin Kit Stainless $17.95

Those are Ed Brown part numbers, don't know the Brownell numbers.

I'm thinking of doing the same to my stainless SA Milspec. I am looking
at adding a beavertail safety because I get some hammer bite from my
current 1911. Another good excuse for more goodies. :)

I really like the gun, just want to get some of the mim out.

Don't forget the hammer strut:
823 Hammer Strut $6.95

I am also replacing the locking MSH so I need a new hammer spring:
919 Competition Mainspring for 1911, 5 pack $6.95

Although I would expect a gunsmith would have something accepatble
lying about.

allan

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