How will the new LEO carry law play out?


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IAJack
July 11, 2004, 09:59 AM
Anyone read or got the scoop on how the new national LEO carry law will work? Will it apply to reservists or cert officer only, does it have to be dept approved? Just curious

IAJack

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Gray Peterson
July 11, 2004, 10:28 AM
My guess is that there will be a run on "reserve officer" positions, as in, they're all going to be filled because there's many civilians out there who want "50 state carry", including myself.

Too bad. I'm going to have to put myself in gym setting for months and on an extreme diet before that happens, but alas, beggers can't be choosers.

I can see some agencies out there screwing up with this law. I know that Chicago PD, NYPD, and LAPD officers may not know about this law, and proceed to arrest people for violating the state laws. Also, be aware that in Illinois and Massachusetts, one cannot even possess ammunition without an FOID or LTC, and I guarantee you that some lousy state prosecutor out there is going to try getting at a retired cop or out of state cop out there and try to state that the LEO Carry law doesn't apply to "loaded firearms" or some such non-sense. Basically state that "yes, you can carry the concealed firearm, but you can't possess the ammo" or something else in that regard. This will be a big problem in NJ, NY, IL, and CA because they tend to frown on out of state LEO's carrying, professional courtesy does not exist for them.

Any LEO's or retired LEO's out there who will be carrying under this law: Please keep a copy of the Public Law in your possession at all times to protect yourself.

Watchman
July 11, 2004, 11:19 AM
Anyone read or got the scoop on how the new national LEO carry law will work? Will it apply to reservists or cert officer only, does it have to be dept approved? Just curious

That would depend entirely how the state classifies Reserves.

In my state, Reserves are certified and classed with LEO's.We dont need a permit as long as we carry our badge and ID card. I understand that in some states reserves arent certified or even allowed to carry on duty so it just depends.

Gray Peterson
July 11, 2004, 11:24 AM
Reserve officers in Washington are considered full on LEO's, AFAIK, with statutory powers of arrest, even if off-duty.

Watchman
July 11, 2004, 11:28 AM
They ought to be good to go then.:)

MacViolinist
July 11, 2004, 11:37 AM
Where do I sign up?

DMF
July 11, 2004, 11:38 AM
There are going to be a lot of headaches working out the details on this law. However with regard to this question: . . . does it have to be dept approved.There is nothing in the statute that prevents the agency from being more restrictive. ie, Agency X could say if you are outside our jurisdiction you may not carry on your creds. What that would mean is if someone was outside Agency X jurisdiction carrying on Agency X creds they would have a three fold problem, 1- they are in fact carrying illegally because the law specifies that you must be authorized by your agency to carry, 2- they are violating agency policy and could be fired, 3- if they are involved in a shooting my first point about illegal carry, and my second point about violating agency policy will be a factor in both the criminal and civil trials that are sure to follow.

F4GIB
July 11, 2004, 11:40 AM
H. R. 218 says this:

"(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm * * *"

It is unclear whether powers of arrest must be 24/7, although since this bill overrides state law it will probably be interpreted narrowly leading to an affirmative answer.

An LEO's parent agency, fearful of liability for an out-of-state use of force incident, can refuse to authorize it's officers to carry while out of their home state. I suspect many agencies will take this step.

DMF
July 11, 2004, 11:40 AM
Also, for those looking to join a reserve force to get nationwide carry, I suggest you don't. If that is your only reason for becoming involved in LE that is the wrong thing to do. The job requires a lot of commitment and sacrifice and if you aren't committed to doing the job you will end up being a danger to yourself, your fellow officers, and the people in the community.

manwithoutahome
July 11, 2004, 01:10 PM
I'm going to reserve comments on the new law for right now. I do have a feeling that it's not going to go well for us "civies" since there is a new class of "elite" out there.

I have a feeling that there will be alot of gloating on the boards, even here with "I have 50 state carry and you don't" and many "You don't need guns because now us LEO's can protect you 24/7" from the anti sites and bias newspapers.

We, the People, will never get national CCW. As the dems pit the poor against the rich, so will the LEO's be pitted against the people. The majority of the LEO's will go the same path as the feds. The feds have the "right" to carry 24/7 in all 50 states as well as overseas and they are the loudest when it comes to disarming the People. Once you give special "rights" to any group, that group will set out to ensure only they have those "rights".

Wayne

DMF
July 11, 2004, 01:18 PM
The feds have the "right" to carry 24/7 in all 50 states as well as overseas and they are the loudest when it comes to disarming the People. Well I'm a fed and I'm for nationwide CCW for everyone except convicted criminals, and the only people I'm looking to disarm are criminals, everyone else I encourage to exercise their RTKBA. The folks I work with are the same way.

Tracy Hightower
July 11, 2004, 01:27 PM
Lonnie,
Regarding your statement on Illinois and the possesion of ammo without a FOID card, I have taught several classes in Illinois to both civilian and Police and what both I and my students found to be the case much to the dissapointment of the residents was that I could purchase and possess ammo while in that state by simply providing an out of state drivers license. While there I went to purchase some ammo at Wal-Mart and when I was asked for the FOID card I told them that I was not a resident. They simply asked for a Drivers License to prove that and sold me the ammo. One of our students was a local Cheif of Police and he stated that the ammo purchase and possesion requirements did not apply to out of state visitors.

Regarding the Reserve Officer issue, I am a Reserve also and with my department I am a Sworn Deputy with the same Statutory powers of Arrest like in your state. In addition to our photo ID which is identical to the full time officers ID, we are issued a Department carry card that authorizes us to be armed at all times whether on or off duty anywhere in the state. I do not see anything in the bill as submitted to the President that would preclude a reserve from taking advantage of the law. However I can see your point in that some may and probably will try to preclude both full time and reserve officers from carrying.

Watchman
July 11, 2004, 02:37 PM
We, the People, will never get national CCW.

Not to long ago we were saying "We, the people will never get statewide CCW"...

Now there are at least 39 states that have done so.

As the dems pit the poor against the rich, so will the LEO's be pitted against the people. The majority of the LEO's will go the same path as the feds.

A BS statement.
Do you know the majority of LEO's ? The LEO's I know have no such feelings. Dont paint them all the same just because your LEO's may feel that way.

The feds have the "right" to carry 24/7 in all 50 states as well as overseas and they are the loudest when it comes to disarming the People. Once you give special "rights" to any group, that group will set out to ensure only they have those "rights".

Another BS statement.
Not ONE single comment Ive heard from any officer regarding this law pitts "us" against "them". Not one single comment from ANY of them has even mentioned "rights" given to any cop. Most of the comments sound something like this..."great, now I can carry to so and so. ".

Fact of the matter is, is MOST cases citizens with CCW's had more leeway in carrying in another state than an off duty cop did. Many states limit Police to carrying on official duty only. I dont hear any of the cops whining about citizens being able to carry in more places than they do.

All I read on these boards are citizens whining about Cops being able to carry anywhere now. As for being a "special class" of people with "special rights," that is nothing more than a popular myth. Become a Cop and see how many "special rights" you get. You might be suprised.

FWIW, I think that ANY CCW ought to be reconized in any state much as a drivers liscence. We might not ever see that because the crooked politicians in their litte domains that dont want anyone carrying guns will work day and night to ensure that it dosent happen...because it might erode their stranglehold on people. Maybe, just maybe, some of these socialist pigs will see what is happening nationwide with the gun issue and just quit trying.

Never give up hope.
Quit whining.
Take active steps too help national CCW rather than hinder.
Just getting someone too understand the US Constitution and what it means might help.

manwithoutahome
July 11, 2004, 03:24 PM
Watchman,

I hope that I am proven wrong.

As for the BS statements, I have been proven more right, than wrong.

As for having NATIONAL ccw, 39 states are just that, states. NATIONAL = ALL STATES. As in, we can carry, like you now without bother.

As in for "pitting one against the other"... it will play out. Many, most of the LEO's favor CCW for us peons but once they realize that they have power given to them that us civies don't have, then minds and aspects change. I hope that I am wrong on this one but I doubt it.

How many times have the feds said that what they are able to do (carry 24/7 no matter where) should be the same for us civies? I can't think of anytime, you?

As with the special rights, tell me of one group, any group, that has gone the other way and stated that they want the same "special rights" that they've been given to apply to another group. Just one.

Why is it that I should be happy, excited, that a job gives benefits to them that should be applied to everyone? Why should I rejoice in the fact that if you have a job, one that is no better, or worse, than another, you get special rights while I have to fear when I cross state lines?

Why should it be that I carry for protection, of myself and my family, but I fear that if I don't do something "just right" I could end up having my life destroyed, yet just because you went through a boot camp, wear a uniform, you're "special" now and can do what we can't?

What makes LEO's do gosh darn special to be able to do what we in America should be able to do anyway? What is it that makes your lives, your family more important than mine? Why is this a good thing when it should have covered all Americans and not some people that put on a bought uniform and act as if they are our protecters and gods?

We wish to be able to protect our families also. We wish to protect ourselves also. We wish to have just a few "rights" that the feds have and now you as an LEO. We just wish to travel, to enjoy America, to just live, and to use the tools that we deem appropriate in order to do so.

Mark my words, many of the LEO's on "our side" will soon change their tunes when they realize that you've got the power and the "rights" just now given them.

Wayne

edited because I'm ticked.

El Tejon
July 11, 2004, 03:42 PM
While in principle I object to the special status afforded LEOs based on the pretext that they are "trained", even though there are a bunch of us lowly serfs with many times the training hours, and somehow better than us, I do know from professional experience that they one thing the law likes is a template, e.g. just look at the Florida statute in '87, copied over and over in other states. I believe the national LEO carry will serve as a template from national serf carry.

This is a positive development for the RKBA PROVIDED there is a follow through attack in the form of national serf carry. I would have preferred a sunset provision on the current proposal to be tied in with the follow up law.

Watchman
July 11, 2004, 03:45 PM
As in for "pitting one against the other"... it will play out. Many most of the LEO's favor CCW for us peons but once they realize that they have power given to them that us civies don't have, then minds and aspects change. I hope that I am wrong on this one but I doubt it.

I cant see it happening. What would the advantage of it be. ?
I think you are placing way too much importance on this here. I say that because I have qualified several cops with CCWs that had more in the way of recipricol rights with the CCW state permit than they ever did being an off duty cop.

I dont think that they'll think of themselves as a special class of citizens, they just think of it as a law that makes sense. I mean really, they could carry in one state but not another where they were going on vacation ?It just didnt make sense. And trust me on this, a cop is not going to intervene in a situation uless its a felony and lives are in danger.


What makes LEO's do gosh darn special to be able to do what we in America should be able to do anyway? What is it that makes your lives, your family more important than mine?

FWIW, I dont beilive that my life or my familys is more important than yours. The only difference between me and you is that some Cop lobbys got together and pushed it though till it became law. Perhaps the NRA might take a few minutes and try to do the same for ALL states...get it to where all CCWs are good in all states.

Why is this a good thing when it should have covered all Americans and not some people that put on a bought uniform and act as if they are our protecters and gods?

First of all, I am not your protector nor am I a god. YOU are responsible for your protection...nones else. Fact of the matter is, all I get to do is fill out a report after the fact. This is only a good law because we have more people on the streets carrying guns. Anything that makes criminals fear thier job is a good thing. The more people that carry guns everyday, the more political clout the average gunowner has. I sincerly hope that this is the first step towards national carry.

Mark my words, many of the LEO's on "our side" will soon change their tunes when they realize that you've got the power and the "rights" just now given them.

I honestly dont know of anyone I work with that thinks that way. While it may be true in your corner of the world, I cant see it happening in mine, but only time will tell.

manwithoutahome
July 11, 2004, 03:54 PM
Watchman,

Then give me free pass in your state as well as others.

First of all, I am not your protector nor am I a god. YOU are responsible for your protection

And ensure that your "brothers" do the same.

Until than, it's still BS and US vs THEM.

I don't break the law, I just choose to be free.

Wayne

Watchman
July 11, 2004, 04:04 PM
Then give me free pass in your state as well as others.

You got it.

we chalk it up to "officer discretion".

Beleive it or not we pretty much already do that. As long as you arent being stupid or have outstanding warrants, we honor other states permits as a matter of policy. I cant speak for all departments, but thats how we do it in ours.

We know that generally you are part of the problem, as you've already jumped through the hoops to get the permit. Now...if get you stopped for reckless driving, excessive speed, DWIor DUI, all bets are off.But since you never break the law, thats not a problem right ?

Thus far, we haven thad any problems as CCW holders are usually among the best folks out there to deal with.

As much as you think of it as being an "us vs them" scenario usally the only folks that we have problems with are those that think we are against "them". Of course, if thats the attitude you display, then thats the attitude you'll get. I personally believe in the golden rule of treating others as you want to be threated. It works for me.
:)

Bruce H
July 11, 2004, 05:25 PM
Big lawsuit for discrimination.

manwithoutahome
July 11, 2004, 05:50 PM
Watchman,

If I get to the land of the biggest sex offender that we know, I'll be sure to give the coppers your name.

Other than that, all flames and such apart, you are one man who seems to be on our side, what about your brothers in blue throughout the land? Hell, if they got their "gat" and you can't have one then you're special. So now only the criminals and they cops got guns.

This is going to be used heavily with the anti's, only cops and military.

Mark my words. And when it goes PC (only cops and retired cops should have guns), they will be all over this "Why do you "civilians" need a gun, cops all over are here to protect you".

Mark my words, it will just get worse and we the People will lose our Rights as rights are given to people who don't know the law, go to the range once a year, barely qualify, and will serve out their time enforcing laws that are wrong.

You're a man/women, you choose your line of work, you chose to put on that uniform, and you thank pleasure in your power.

You are nothing except revenue takers. Spend a week, a month, years in the military and face your enemies, with or without backup. Take an oath to give your life and come back and tell me that I'm wrong.

It's a job, one that you don't have to put your life in the balance. You can go into that house, that place, but it's your choice. It only took 2 hours for folks to get into columbine.

But I remiss. Those who are now allowed to, what gun will you legally carry while others can't, into a state that we can't, in order to have your vacation?

(and if I am there, you sure better protect me, because I can't carry, or are you going to hide under the law?)


Wayne

DMF
July 11, 2004, 05:56 PM
Take an oath to give your life and come back and tell me that I'm wrong.I took my oath, I was in the military, and you are wrong.

fjolnirsson
July 11, 2004, 08:52 PM
You are nothing except revenue takers.

Wow. That's pretty rough.
The LEO's I know personally got into the job and stay there for one reason. To help people. That's all. They weren't looking for any special treatment.
The same reason I am trying. To help people. I am good at breaking up fights. I am good at keeping the peace. I am trying to join up to keep people safe.
It's wrong to paint all Leos with the same tar brush. Sure, some are bad apples. Every profession has them.
When I was in the Police Academy, I saw a lot of things that really ticked me off. The state of CA is actively turning new recruits into JBTs. They are trained in the mindset of "us v. them". It's one of the things I plan to fight against.
I was injured in the academy 2 weeks before graduation. Otherwise, I'd be out there on the street right now, doing my damnedest to keep the public from being shot, stabbed, raped or otherwise injured. As it is, I work 40 hours a week in a 55+ community of 10,000 people as a public safety officer. I help elderly folks in and out of their homes, I unlock them when they forget their keys. I give them oxygen when they're having trouble breathing and the paramedics are still 10 miles down the road. I use a cardiac defibrilation device when their hearts stop. Some of them don't make it. I am happy to help the ones who do.
I deal with urine and feces and vomit, on a daily basis. I take abuse from senile folks who think I am shooting them with "beams" to control their minds. I do it every day, because I care and I want to help. The same reason I want to be a peace officer.
Every week, on one of my days off, I work as a bouncer at a local bar. I make sure drunks get in a cab, and not their car. I cut guys off who have had to much and are embarrassing themselves. I send the drunken blonde home in a cab instead of with the guy who just came in and claims to be her "boyfriend", when she says she doesn't know him.
I do all of it to help people. When I am a peace officer, I'll be doing much the same. Helping. That's my motivation. And it is the motivation of every LEO I personally know.
That said, there are some who are a disgrace to the shield they wear. The entire LAPD needs to be retrained. But their bad behavior is a symptom of where they are and what CA teaches new recruits.
If our resident LEOs were JBTs, they wouldn't be here tring to debate. They'd be somewhere else, bashing us to their buddies.
Just my 5 cents. ( a bit more than.02:D )

manwithoutahome
July 11, 2004, 10:35 PM
DMF

Ditto so that won't hold any water with me. I to took an oath and I still believe in it and I follow it. So what's the point of your post? You disagree, fine, tell me why and don't try to hold some cards that you think you have, but don't.

fjolnirsson,

That's all LEO's are now days. If you dial 911 and ask for help, they are either too busy (on other calls) or they can't make it. Yet you look down the street and find Mr. Radar man in his car stopping everyone that goes over the limit (I can take pictures right now if you wish).

I think that the LEO's on this board try, mostly anyway. From the way some of them have replied (to another post, not this one) just reinforces the "civies" outlook on the majority of LEO's.

Our job (the "civilians") is not to tell you why or try to save face to others out there, the others, the LEO's job is to explain why most civilians feel the way they do about the LEO's. And it's up to both of us to find a way to get rid of these feelings.

Yet, I bet you that we get into the "Them vs Us" debate once again. LEO's can do no wrong, it's the civilians fault 100% of the time.

Wayne

*don't get me wrong, I have respect for LEO's, I just wish they had respect for Us. I to have lived day to day, yet I don't know of any LEO that has done so in a tent. I've gone to the bathroom in a tent as well as super heated port a potties (heated from the sun since they are outside) yet I've not seen the same with an LEO. I to have traveled the base with an eye out for people that wish to kill me, yet I wasn't in an air-conditioned cruiser. I too have gone to bed, not in my home but on a bunk and wondered what the night as well as the day would bring, yet I had to do it with my gas mask and chemical suit.

Don't tell me that these things belong to you and it's your right just because you wear blue or gray or whatever color. If it's your right, then it's damn sure my right due to I fought so you could have a freakin job.

I regress. I should just pay homage to the new lords now and just take my bow and leave the room. This isn't going to be good for us peons, and the new lords will soon learn or be taught the way.

Sorry, just the way I feel.

Watchman
July 11, 2004, 11:28 PM
manwithoutahome...

After reading your posts, I can understand why you are a man without a home. Heck, I'll bet your mother kicked you out of the house by the time you were 12 cause of that exellent attitude about life that you display.



Just so you know that you arent the only guy in the world that ever did anything, I'll respond a little bit...

You are nothing except revenue takers. Spend a week, a month, years in the military and face your enemies, with or without backup. Take an oath to give your life and come back and tell me that I'm wrong.

Revenue takers ?

I'll remember that the next time I pull you or one of your family members out of a burning wreck because the firedept is still 10 minutes away. I'll think about it the next time I put pressure on an artery that is shooting a stream of blood 6 feet high because a drunk driver ran over someone you knew and busted his legs to the point that he'll likely lose his legs. I'll think about it when your daughters crackinfested boyfriend tries to kill her and everyone is locked in the house fearing for their lives. I'll think about collecting revenue then next time I'm going over 100 MPH pursuing a hit-n-run driver that has crashed into a family that was going to church. The next time a gang banger goes into a store and robs it and smacks the clerk over the head with pistol, Im sure I'll be thinking of revenue when I've got him proned out on the ground at gunpoint. The next time I hold the head of a 19 year old boy that made a mistake by drinking and driving in my lap and I watch him take his last breath,I'm sure I'll be thinking of the potential lost of revenue.

But hey... I cant possibly know as much as you about the military . Just because I spent 4 years, 11 months and 21 days in the military dosent really qualify me to speak about it. Tents ? I would have LOVED to have had a tent back in the late 70's the first time I spent several months in the Iranian Desert. Port-a-Potties ? That would have been great to sit down on a lid and not have to bury your crap to keep from being spotted. Bunk ? Yeah right. If you can call sleeping on the sand on your poncho a bunk, I suppose I can say that too.
Traveling to a base ? I would have like to have had a base where we were at. As for people trying to kill me...luckily for me they failed. Some of my teammates were less fortunate. I remember being in the various deserts of the Mid East where just having a tree to piss on would have been nice.

But hey, I dont know squat about hardship or danger or anything else because all I know is sitting in an air conditioned cruiser shooting radar and collecting revenue from people going 3 miles over the limit. Yeah.. thats probably me in the crusier that you want to a take a picture of. I'll have to force myself to remember that its a "me against" them world out there. Thankyou for those tidbits of wisdom. I cant imagine how I could carry on without knowing that all thses years.

:banghead:

Art Eatman
July 12, 2004, 09:20 AM
manwithoutahome, you're aiming at the wrong target in some of your gripes. It's the local and state governments in many cases which set policies--among them the "revenue taker" aspect.

A cop on a speeding violation doesn't think, "Oh, wow! Another $68 plus court costs!" That comes from the local JP and the traffic engineer who sets the speed limit.

As far as the LEO carry law, I think you're falling into the famous American "Instant Gratification" trap. It's gonna take time for this to carry over to us "mere serfs".

Look: We've had to endure a lot of calumny and vilification ever since the assassinations/murders of JFK, RFK and MLK. It has been a long and slow process to claw our way back to some semblance of respectability in the eyes of the Great Herd, in spite of an ever-growing desire for "safety and security". Now, however, some 39 states have some form of CHL laws. Now, even Congress, grudgingly, is giving a fairer shake to LEOs.

I've been putting up with nonsense since November 22, 1963. Don't be in such an all-fired hurry.

Art

manwithoutahome
July 12, 2004, 09:38 PM
Watchman and Art,

I took some time to sit back and rethink my position and all I have to draw on is what I've experienced.

Watchman, I'm not belittling you or what you do. You are a hard working joe, just like the rest of us. You are just like the rest of us, working people who choose their careers that they wanted to pursue, which still doesn't make one group, because of their choice of job, better than another and should get special rights.

As for "manwithoutahome". This comes from the fact that I was a Military Brat and every three to four years we moved. Then I joined the military and the next ten after that I moved or was stationed overseas. So, I am a "manwithoutahome" not due to my attitude but due to the way that I feel.

The only experiences that I can draw on is that when I needed help, Rabid cat bit me, assault by the people across the street after the owner died, an accident that left my friends car disabled in the middle of a busy street, that they refused to come to take a report (played hell on the insurance claim against the one who's fault it was) and then to add insult to injury, wouldn't even help to move the car or call anyone to help move the car. Friend ended up getting a ticket for "blocking the street".

Yet, if you go 1 mile over the speed limit there is no limits to how many cops will show up to issue a ticket. If your car is "too close to the street" while it's in your driveway, they seem to have the time to give you a hard time and push their badge around.

When I got bit by a cat that had all the signs of Rabies, the cop that was using radar about three blocks from the house (I didn't know that he was there until I passed him on my way to the ER with the now dead cat). I stopped and asked him why no one could respond to my call for help and his answer was, "we're to busy". I asked, "What, catching speeders"? And his curt answer was, "Ya".

So, you see where I get my "attitude"? See why I firmly believe that this is going to become a "I got mine, screw you". You see why they will now hope on the anti wagon with statements of, "You civies don't need to have guns, we're on duty 24/7 no matter where we're at, and don't forget that the Supreme Court has ruled that we don't have to even try to protect you".

I'll hold back and see what happens. But my crystal ball tells me that we're going to have the Us vs. Them really bad, with the LEO's leading the way.

Watchman, I thank you for what you do. From speaking with you I've gotten the impression that you are one of the good LEO's, who would jump at the chance to help and do your best in doing so. You're one of the good ones, one who knows that he now has greater Rights than us but will still fight to give the same Rights to those that are not LEO's. I was harsh on you and I do apologize. If you keep up the fight and don't gain the attitude of "well, I've got mine" then I will be by your side fighting the good fight.

Wayne

MarkDido
July 14, 2004, 08:26 AM
I haven't read each message in this thread very closely, so this may have already been addressed:

I don't believe that a LEO, who is out of his jurisdiction, has any "duty to act" if, for example, he sees a crime while he is out of state, on vacation, etc. Meaning if he's standing in line at the 7-11 and 2 armed urban youth saunter in, he is not required to act. So to me, that means that that weapon is there for the protection of the LEO.

Pebcac
July 14, 2004, 05:16 PM
I'm gonna toss my oar in for what it's worth. First, I support LEO national carry, because some folks will try to kill police officers just because of what job they chose. They have a right to defend themselves. So do I, and so I hope that the LEO national carry law will serve as a guide to national carry-permit reciprocity.

As to whether or not the police are the good guys or the bad guys, well, that depends on the individual, just like it does for everyone else. I have a very low opinion of the local metro police department thanks to some first-hand internal experience, but that does not keep me from respecting someone who will put on body armor and take a crappy salary to try to keep his neighborhood safe. The police in the 'burbs here, while being paid far less than the metro department pays, are mostly decent people.

Police officers are human beings. Some of them are warts on the butt of society, and some are stand-up people trying to do a good job. Others are somewhere in between. Unfortunately, they all have to deal with the absolute worst our society has to offer, and some deal with that better than others. Watchman, for the personal accounts you related, you have my respect.

I try not to let a couple of negative experiences color my impressions of any group to an unwarranted extent. Otherwise, I would hate everyone.

Oh, and by the way, let me point this out: According to the NHTSA, traffic accidents killed 42,815 people in 2002. I wish there were a lot more radar guns and blue lights slowing people down around here. Maybe I'm weird.

rock jock
July 14, 2004, 05:52 PM
Also, for those looking to join a reserve force to get nationwide carry, I suggest you don't. If that is your only reason for becoming involved in LE that is the wrong thing to do. The job requires a lot of commitment and sacrifice and if you aren't committed to doing the job you will end up being a danger to yourself, your fellow officers, and the people in the community.
In Texas, at least, I don't think anyone becomes a reserve LEO anymore unless they are really serious. It requires graduation from an accredited academy, which is a huge commitment in terms of time and money.

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