The time has come to take a stand....


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Humble Texan
February 14, 2003, 10:47 PM
France, Germany, Belgium, and Austria.

Getting my UPS 45f ready for sale. Will not own anything German any longer. Sorry I bought one last year.

Purchase of Glock off the list. How can we support such a country with our American dollars?

I just can't tolerate supporting the Axis of Weasels and that includes my weapon purchases.

As for Austria,

James Taranto writes:
"Reuters reports that Austria, the country that gave the world such great statesmen as Adolf Hitler, Kurt Waldheim and Joerg Haider, has joined the axis of weasels by refusing to let American troops travel by train across the Austrian Alps, the fastest route from Germany to Italy. The country's foreign minister also says he sympathizes with the efforts of France, Germany and Belgium to prevent NATO from making plans to defend Turkey in the event of an Iraqi attack. Austria at least is not a NATO member, so this isn't a stab in the back from a purported ally."

I know many will not go to such lengths but consider, any American dollars going to these countries provides monetary support for their antics. We contribute directly to their cause.

God Bless our President and all of our soldiers who will be on the line doing their duty in our war against terriorism. It's a shame our old time allies have turned their backs on us. Time to turn our backs to them.

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Marshall
February 14, 2003, 11:05 PM
I whole heartedly agree! However, I will wait to see how Bush punishes them, if he does? If he nails them, I might reconsider buying one, if he doesn't I won't be making any purchases!

Jim March
February 14, 2003, 11:36 PM
Weasels are a LOT nicer than that lot.

biere
February 15, 2003, 12:02 AM
I agree with the concept and am starting to look at things the same way. Part of the problem is that some of the so called american companies might have factories outside the USA.

My current stumbling block is if I prefer a foreign company with a plant in the states that employees americans, or an american company with a plant outside the states employing someone other than americans.

Like I said it is my stumbling block, I applaud others who can figure out where to stand. I seem to be looking for the highest rock in the quicksand pit.

hansolo
February 15, 2003, 12:42 AM
With new(American)owners and Klinton out of the picture, I recently bought a new S&W 910s; I already owned a S&W 1956 M/P .38 -- I will not buy guns or anything else from former allies who are now turning their backs on us. I always felt a little uncomfortable driving VW's, as Hitler had a part in their concept; As for the French...:barf:

We have to stick together and send these traitors the message that they are cutting their own throats when the dust settles. So be it.

USGuns
February 15, 2003, 12:50 AM
Yep, I agree. Fortunately, there are lots of US-made options from US-owned companies.

Partial list:
- Ruger
- S&W
- Colt
- Kel-Tec
- Kahr
- Kimber

BerettaNut92
February 15, 2003, 01:37 AM
Hold on a minute here. Who's to say that Gaston Glock agrees with whoever his leader is, or the new owners of HK agree with their leaders???

That's like saying, well gee, I'm not going to buy Beretta anymore because Maryland is a police state, or Clinton's governor of Arkansas, I'm not going to buy Wilson Combat anymore!!!

A little knee-jerk but but what's my opinion worth? :rolleyes:

The way things are going now, HK will open a plant to cater to the American market. How is that anti-American?

Edited: how many rounds through your HK, what datecode and please e-mail pics to jeff@skunkabilly.com

Schuey2002
February 15, 2003, 01:44 AM
Edited: how many rounds through your HK, what datecode and please e-mail pics to jeff@skunkabilly.com
Always the opportunist, eh, Skunk!! :D :neener:

Drizzt
February 15, 2003, 02:05 AM
I understand what you're saying, but I don't think selling what you already have is an answer. They've already got your money on that.

BerettaNut92
February 15, 2003, 02:49 AM
Is it a stainless, btw?

forquidder
February 15, 2003, 03:13 AM
It seems that some of our long term allies in Western Europe are making the same mistakes they did prior to WWII by appeasing tyrants. Once again they will be shown to be lining up on the wrong side of history. Looking into the future I can see the U.S. having stonger alliances with the newly liberated Eastern European countries who have just come out from under the jackboots of tyrants and have had their fill of petty dictators. Maybe some proactive firearms purchases from some of these countries may be in order. A new CZ from the Czech Republic comes to mind as one choice in helping commerce in a country I see becoming one of our better alliances.

Humble Texan
February 15, 2003, 09:21 AM
No rationalizing. No compromising.

Hold on a minute here. Who's to say that Gaston Glock agrees with whoever his leader is, or the new owners of HK agree with their leaders???

Sorry but that doesn't cut it. Whether Gaston Glock or HK ownership disagree or not, no doubt a larger percentage of the purchase price goes to the "STATE". Pressure on the money guys puts pressure on the leaders. If they really don't agree they had better do something about it.

That's like saying, well gee, I'm not going to buy Beretta anymore because Maryland is a police state, or Clinton's governor of Arkansas, I'm not going to buy Wilson Combat anymore!!!

I don't see Maryland or Arkansas as a part of the UN and world of nations. A bit of a stretch.

The way things are going now, HK will open a plant to cater to the American market. How is that anti-American?

It is really nice of HK to do that. We all know they are doing it just for us. It absolutely means nothing.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think selling what you already have is an answer. They've already got your money on that.

Yeah they already have my money but if I sell it, I will get some of it back and keep someone else from buying new.

Interesting side note. Visited my father the other day. He had purchased some very expensive vodka. All the rage. Grey Goose is the name. I told my father to look at the label and sure enough "Made in France". Now try to drink that with an olive!

Sorry Skunkabilly, but I believe it is already spoken for but I haven't seen the cash. I will send you an e-mail if it becomes avaiable.

LevelHead
February 15, 2003, 09:47 AM
1) You sell your HK to someone who's never had one.

2) They fall in love with it and simply have to buy more

3) They decide that polymer realy is best thing since, well metal

4) They decide to try a Glock

5) Germany makes even MORE money.

Though I think a boycott of this type solves nothing, selling what you already own could conceivably further the cause you're trying to boycott.

Just a thought.

Marko Kloos
February 15, 2003, 10:08 AM
Boycotting private companies for the actions of their governments is pretty pointless. The companies in question do not have the clout to influence the foreign policy decisions of Germany and Austria. The only person affected by it is the boycotter, because they reduce their choices in a free market.

Even if boycotts like that were effective, the only effect would be the elimination of another gun manufacturer from the market, so only the antis will be dancing the happy jig.

Humble Texan
February 15, 2003, 11:21 AM
Though I think a boycott of this type solves nothing, selling what you already own could conceivably further the cause you're trying to boycott.

Actually they (boycotts) can be very effective, as the fuel for these countries and their economies are American Dollars. Don't doubt the impact our economy has on the rest of the world.

Boycotting private companies for the actions of their governments is pretty pointless. The companies in question do not have the clout to influence the foreign policy decisions of Germany and Austria. The only person affected by it is the boycotter, because they reduce their choices in a free market.

You make a hugh leap on this one assuming the companies have no influence. I would highly expect many bureacrats of the countries involved are on the Boards or are part owners. Also, both of the countries you mention are highly socialistic and need high percentages of their GNP to fuel their cradle to grave society and that money comes from taxes on sales of products and company income taxes. Pointless? I think not.

Secondly, my personal boycott is free market. MY DOLLAR, MY CHOICE. YOUR DOLLAR, YOUR CHOICE. Can't be no freer than that.

Even if boycotts like that were effective, the only effect would be the elimination of another gun manufacturer from the market, so only the antis will be dancing the happy jig.

That is not the way the market works. If a gun company folds, for what every reason, and a market still exists, the demand will be filled. At least in a capitalist/free market society.

I know many want to purchase their personal weapons from whomever they choose regardless of what is happening in the world. That is fair and that's your right. As for me, the one thing I have to influence decisions of others are my dollars and my vote. Just as I won't spend money to watch movies starring certain actors or use MCI because they choose Danny Glover as their spokes-person, or watch Peter Jennings, I won't spend any of my money supporting Germany, France, Belgium and Austria, at least not knowingly.

It is time to get the word out. The Anti-Americans in France and Germany are filling the streets protesting, while waiting for their government checks. The more I think about it the madder I get!

gryphon
February 15, 2003, 12:29 PM
Well, one of the classic blunders is that you think that we have a free market. NO one has a free market, otherwise there would be no regulation, no government subsidies.

Everyone is entitled to spend their money however they choose, but targeting HK or Glock "teaches" the German/Austrian government nothing. You only hurt a firearms manufacturer.

Thought dictated by emotion gives you a 50-50 chance of being right or making the right choice. Remove emotion from the equation.

hops
February 15, 2003, 12:53 PM
How many of you have even read the German Newspapers to get a clue as to what is really going on in Germany?

The ruling party - SPD (demoncrats) and Red/Greens (hard core communists) are in power as a coalition govt by the slimmest of margins!

On Thursday last week, Herr Schroeder had to explain and defend his government's postion to the out of power by the slimmest margin CDU/CSU (republicans) part. At one point the leader of the CDU, a woman I might add, basically told Herr Schroeder that his is an 'amature' and 'naive' and is causing serious danger to Germany's good standing in the international scene.
German Intellingence, the Bundesnachrrichtdienst - kinds like CIA I guess, in a rare event went public with what they know. The information was given to Sec. Powell / UN security council. Herr Schroeder was also briefed.

It is much easier to have a anti-war rally than a pro-war rally, since the 'average' sane person is against war, unless directly attacked.

Lastly. anyone here been hearing the damm German anit-war song '99 Luft Balloon's' ? I'm getting sick of that communist song - person who sings it was a big time red/green fan.

Marshall
February 15, 2003, 01:21 PM
The bottom line is, when large companies feel the clinch in their pocket they bitch, governments listen! Period. Will it ultimately make a difference, I don't know? But, if I continue to support them financially there will be no issue. Who knows, someone may decide the U.S. is a better place for a manufacturing facility.

However, I will still wait to see what happens and see how it all plays out first. Bush may make them pay?

HABU
February 15, 2003, 01:38 PM
I will wait to see how Bush punishes them
Yah right. If history repeats its self, we'll will be giving them more $ when this all blows over. My hope is that bush forgets naught and tells them to piss up a rope when they come whimpering for a "loan" or whatever they want in the future.

As for the guy elected after W........he probably wont have (as much of) a set.

Humble Texan
February 15, 2003, 01:55 PM
Targeting HK and Glock does in fact teach the German/Austria governments something. It is just not a gun manufacturing thing. All goods and services should be affected.

Why do you think we are getting so much resistance to military action? The see-no-evil Berlin turning it's eye away from German companies selling to and providing dual purpose equipment to Iraq, contrary to the Sanctions. The French (Billions of dollars oil contracts) and Germans have great embarrasement awaiting them when the US gets to look over the records.

Hops, you are right. I have been viewing English version, German newspapers. Herr Schroeder ran on an anti-American platform and won. His ratings amongst the German people had been very low due to social issues but as of late he is gaining strength due to his continue obstructionism of the US. I know this may be simplistic and am sure there are much more undercurrents applied than I will ever know or understand.

You trade with your friends.

Emotion, maybe, but pragmatic, definately!

Marshall
February 15, 2003, 04:43 PM
What I am looking for in punishment is telling them take their oil contracts and shove them after we deal with Iraq!

I imagine they will be whining to get in on the deal after we start! I would still tell them to take their weak *** military and go home!

Getting back to, "you're either with us or agin us"!

chaim
February 16, 2003, 12:57 AM
I have already been boycotting German, French, Belgian, and most Scandinavian countries for other reasons. I guess I'll just have to add Austria to the list.

Of course, this is harder than it sounds:
-Chrysler is now owned by Mercedes Benz,
-BASF products are German,
-3M is mostly German
-Which US bank was recently bought by Duetchbank (sp?).

It isn't only guns. If you are going to effectively boycott a country's products that means ALL industries (at least where you can- which company advertises "we don't make a lot of the products you buy, we make a lot of the products you buy better"? because many don't sell directly to the consumer). Also, once you get a boycott organized it can take a few years to be effective. So do your research. Don't buy any consumer product made by these companies. Do some reseach to see which US manufacturers use industrial products from these countries and start a letter writing campaign to switch. It will take a while but a properly supported boycott can certainly change a country's policies or send the message you wish to send.

chaim
February 16, 2003, 01:01 AM
Oh yes, almost forgot- add me to the voices saying don't sell what you have over it. I never got those who sold their S&Ws because of the agreement. You've already paid for it and the company involved already got their money. The only one hurt by this is you, assuming this is something you like and that you weren't just looking for an excuse to get rid of it.

Don't buy new products from a company/country you wish to boycott. But there is no reason to sell, and in fact there is nothing wrong with buying used. If you buy used they aren't getting a penny and you still get the benefit of the product.

gun-fucious
February 16, 2003, 01:03 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=116270

2dogs
February 16, 2003, 11:49 AM
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6167

Belgium the Brave
By Lowell Ponte
FrontPageMagazine.com | February 14, 2003


PONTEFICATIONS

WHY HAS BELGIUM WAFFLED, using its vote in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization to block even defensive aid to fellow NATO member Turkey, which borders dictator Saddam Hussein’s Iraq?

This tidy little country has a recent history of being run by France and run over by Germany, the two declining Euro-powers opposing President George W. Bush on this issue.

But many of us expected more from Belgium, longtime home of NATO’s North Atlantic Council headquarters.

The Wall Street Journal speculates that Belgium has demilitarized, its army having become little more than an employment program that puts citizens into spiffy uniforms and bands that play martial music.

"The Belgian army," says Fox News Channel’s John Gibson, "is well known to be too old and too fat to fight anything. It has no interest in going off to war. It employs so many people in do-nothing jobs that it can’t afford any real military equipment anyway."

"The Belgian army," Gibson adds, "is unionized…. Its unions strike for more vacation, higher pay, better perks. Nobody leaves the army because life there is too good, and the union won’t let the government kick anyone out until each person is primed for a fat retirement.

"So if you were wondering why these guys won’t fight or even assume a threatening posture," Gibson continues, "it’s because they’re too old and fat from feeding at the pubic trough…and have trouble enough fighting bad breath, never mind a real enemy soldier."

True as this is, this tiny land where Napoleon met his Waterloo is further debilitated by scarcely being a nation at all. Named for the Belgae tribes conquered by the Romans around 50 B.C., this land was for much of its history merely a part of the Netherlands. Other conquerors – the dukes of Burgundy, the Hapsburgs, the Spanish, the Austrians - put it under separate annexation and imposed Catholicism.

The Congress of Vienna in 1815 at last returned this land to the Protestant Netherlands, but Catholic rebels aided by France and other like-worshipping powers were granted Belgian "independence" in 1830.

Belgium had a brief fling at European colonialism. In 1885 its King Leopold II took at gunpoint the Congo Free State (later Zaire, and today called the Democratic Republic of Congo), renamed in 1908 the Belgian Congo. In the shop windows of Brussels (in Walloon, Bruxelles), you can even today see displays of gorillas and palm trees recalling this brief time of Belgian power and glory (and, say critics, its brutal treatment of Africans used to produce its rubber, ivory and other raw materials).

But Belgium – itself a colony of other European powers for most of its history – showed its military impotence as German troops turned it into an invasion highway to France in World War I and a quick way to end-run France’s brain-dead Maginot Line during World War II.

Today’s Belgium retains the skittish schizophrenia of its history. The nation officially speaks with two tongues, Dutch Flemish in the majority north and French Walloon in the south. But centuries of occupation succeeded in making 90 percent of Belgians Roman Catholic. Taxpayer dollars are used to support Catholic "free schools" in the country.

To understand the psychology of Belgium, visit its most famous tourist attraction in Brussels – the Manneken Pis. This is the bronze statue of a naked little boy, cast by Jerome Duquesnoy in 1619 to replace its ancient stone predecessor.

Many legends give various meanings to the Manneken Pis. The one told to me most often by locals is that this national boy hero, akin to the fabled Dutch boy who reputedly saved Holland by sticking his finger in a leaking dike, saw a small fire that threatened to burn down Brussels and quick-wittedly extinguished it with the only source of water at hand, his own urine.

That’s right – the national hero of Belgium is depicted in the bronze fountain of a small boy expelling a stream of water. (On certain ritual occasions this outpouring of water is replaced by beer. One favorite national beverage is Manneken Pis Belgian White Ale.)

As one French writer describes the Manneken Pis, "his small mischievous, nonchalant, roguish air, rascal, perfectly symbolize[s] the joking mind and the sense of humor of the inhabitants of Brussels."

The Manneken Pis also symbolizes Belgium’s lack of a grown-up hero with the power of manhood.

For those who want to see this greatest glory of Belgium from its tasteless quasi-official website, click here.

At times the locals dress their heroic statue up in humorous costumes, in the same way that King Louis XIV of France symbolically emasculated him (and the Belgians) by providing dresses for the Manneken Pis to wear. Belgium remains France’s sock puppet to this day, as its willingness to block NATO defensive tools for Turkey makes embarrassingly plain.

Gunhead
February 16, 2003, 12:38 PM
First of all, my small country supports the military action against Iraq (if this means anything at all :rolleyes: ). As we speak, exiled iraqi volunteers are trained on our military bases to take over when the Hussein-regime falls in Baghdad.

So I suppose we are on the side of the US... I also support a military action against the crazy old fart.

But what I don't understand is the euro bashing on the boards, just because some countries don't fully agree with the US. They disagree, so they are immediately became enemies, ungrateful dogs, cowards, etc. This is the democracy what the US is so proud of? Even in the UK around 2 million people went to the streets of London this weekend protesting against the war. This tells a bit about how unconvincing the facts the US have against Iraq.

This is the 21st century, it's time to dump the lone gunslinger costume. Everyone knows that OJ Simpson (Hussein) killed his wife (supports terrorists), but you can't jail (bomb) him until you can convince the jury to prove him guilty...

muddyboots
February 16, 2003, 03:40 PM
Let me open the safe and see what's here...

HK 91
HK 93
Walther PPK/S
Sig 220
Sig 229
1908 DWM Luger
Weatherby .240 Magnum
Glock 17

...seven Germans and one Austrian. (Don't let the Weatherby fool you. It was made by J.P. Sauer & Sohn.) Nope, I don't see anything here I want to get rid of. Gerhard Schroeder isn't all of Germany; he's just a conniving politician. But so are Teddy Kennedy, Charles Schumer, Barbara Boxer, et al. I'll still buy products from Massachusetts, New York, and California.

Humble Texan
February 16, 2003, 05:45 PM
But what I don't understand is the euro bashing on the boards, just because some countries don't fully agree with the US. They disagree, so they are immediately became enemies, ungrateful dogs, cowards, etc.

Yep, that just about covers it. You see, it is not a simple disagreement. It is a MAJOR obstruction to enforcing 17 UN resolutions and correcting 12 years of appeasement. I want to do more than "bash". I want to exert pressure on the appeasers.

Even in the UK around 2 million people went to the streets of London this weekend protesting against the war. This tells a bit about how unconvincing the facts the US have against Iraq.

You are kidding, aren't you??? The prostest are not about the facts. The facts are clear. Read the 12 year history again, PLEASE. The protestors are turning their backs on the Iraqi people. They are aiding genocide, murder and tourture. They also aid in the continued development of WMD.A Good Read (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/02/16/do1601.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/02/16/ixopinion.html)

andy
February 16, 2003, 07:15 PM
I'm keeping my Glock and will buy European made firearms if I think they are worth buying. Mr. Bush has done a lousy job of selling this war and as much as I want to support him I just can't. Going into a major war with only tepid public support is a bad idea and might just doom it to be another Vietnam style failure. I hate to say it but I think we will have to wait until these guys like Sadam do something really big, like nuke one of our cities before we can motivate people to fight. We have to wait for the American people, or for that matter the European people, to have a Pearl Harbor before they will act. Otherwise we will be viewed as the aggressors.

hops
February 16, 2003, 08:05 PM
NATO moves in the right direction: I got this off of CNN. France is not a member of this NATO commettee because France bailed out of NATO's integrated military structure in 1966/1967.

BRUSSELS, Belgium (CNN) -- The 18 members of a key NATO committee agreed unanimously Sunday night to approve defense planning for Turkey in case of war against Iraq.

"The 18 NATO allies -- members of the integrated military structure -- agreed today to task military planners to begin their work and advice on preventive deployment of AWACS airplanes, NATO support for deployment of theater missile defenses of Turkey, and support for allied chemical and biological defense capabilities," NATO Secretary-General George Robertson said.

France, the sole member of NATO that is not on the Defense Planning Committee, continued to oppose the idea.

The announcement was made after a day of what Robertson called "arduous but constructive" discussions. Last week, France, Germany and Belgium declined to approve the move. The German and Belgian representatives were persuaded to change their minds.

"I'm happy to announce we have been able to collectively overcome the impasse we faced for the last few days," Robertson said.

"These decisions are purely for the defense of Turkey," he said. "This is not a step toward war."

Robertson added, "NATO nations have assumed their collective responsibilities toward Turkey, a nation at the moment under threat."

Turkey sought the help last week, after it became clear that U.S.-led war with Iraq appears likely.

France, Germany, and Belgium had fought the move out of concern that it would push the region closer to conflict.

But a NATO new release offered this assurance: "We continue to support efforts in the United Nations to find a peaceful solution to the crisis. This decision relates only to the defense of Turkey, and is without prejudice to any other military operations by NATO, and future decisions by NATO or the U.N. Security Council."

Humble Texan
February 16, 2003, 08:48 PM
Andy says,

I'm keeping my Glock and will buy European made firearms if I think they are worth buying. Mr. Bush has done a lousy job of selling this war and as much as I want to support him I just can't. Going into a major war with only tepid public support is a bad idea and might just doom it to be another Vietnam style failure.

Andy, well spoken, shallow, meaningless and fearful, just like the French and Germans, by all means keep your Glock and buy all the German and Austria weapons you want. That is a minor consideration. That is a great thing about America. I can tell by your post you are an appeaser. If you don't think President Bush, (of course you call him Mr., big tip off) has made the case, then you have not been paying attention.


I will refrain from telling you what I really think of you out of courtesy to others who read this forum. Of course, many here may agree with you.

They will make their own judgements. I for one will stand shoulder to shoulder with President Bush, Australia, Britian, and the many other countries that support disarming Saddam and liberate the Iraqi people.

DeltaElite
February 16, 2003, 09:04 PM
You are either with us or against us.
The countries that are hampering our efforts are ungrateful cowards.

I am so sick of hearing what the rest of the world thinks, like I give a damn what some eurotrash think.
We have propped up the European economy and protected them during the cold war and during two World Wars.
So they can kiss my patooty, if they don't like what we do.
We really don't need their help anyway, now do we? :D

ahadams
February 16, 2003, 09:26 PM
Gunhead's comments point out a major preconceptual error on the part of much of Europe: they really believed all that :cuss: the previous administration put out about subordinating US interests to the UNnatural conglomeration in New York.

I personally could care less how many Europeans demonstrated whereever against going into Iraq. If the 19th and 20th centuries proved nothing else it was that we cannot *ever* trust the continental Europeans to take action on a bad situation until it's too late for them to do anything on their own.

If they don't want to support us, fine. Let them complain all they want. They can do almost nothing about it, and what little they can do will result in worse problems for them than for us.

The real problem here is that ever since the mid 1960's, other than the Regan administration, we've fairly much been trying to pretend we are not an imperial power, when in fact that's exactly what we are. Perhaps it's simply time to start acting like it again.

Marshall
February 16, 2003, 10:42 PM
Mr. Bush has done a lousy job of selling this war and as much as I want to support him I just can't. Going into a major war with only tepid public support is a bad idea and might just doom it to be another Vietnam style failure

OMG

It is a shame that "President Bush", not Mr. Bush, has to "sell" this war to begin with! This attitude is exactly what is making what you call "tepid public support"! The only thing similar to this and Veitnam is what you are doing and saying!

Wake up folks! :rolleyes:


Respectfully,

andy
February 16, 2003, 11:55 PM
Humble Texan and Marshal: If I gave you the impression that I'm some sort of lefty who is lurking on this board you are mistaken. I'm about as conservative as you get, I'm an NRA member, and I vote Republican. That means I voted for President Bush. If I offended you by refering to him as Mr. Bush I apologize. What I did was express my honest opinion of events that are occurring. That being so stated ,Humble Texan, I could really care less what your opinion is of me. Have a nice life.

Marshall
February 17, 2003, 12:15 AM
Andy,

We all the right to our views! I don't have to respect your view or, you mine. However, I do repect the fact that it is your view!

andy
February 17, 2003, 12:31 AM
Thankyou Marshall, you are a true gentleman.

Marshall
February 17, 2003, 03:10 AM
As are you Sir for saying so! ;)

Tamara
February 17, 2003, 03:36 AM
It is a shame that "President Bush", not Mr. Bush, has to "sell" this war to begin with!

Yeah! Gosh, what do these people think he is? A public servant, or something? Don't they know that the President can just up and start a war with whoever he wants to, whenever he wants to? It says so in the Declaration of Independence or the Gettysburg Address or Deuteronomy or someplace...





;)

ZekeLuvs1911
February 17, 2003, 07:26 AM
I own 2 H&K USP fullsized .45's. One is a stainless model. I will not sell them. However, I do plan to refrain from purchasing anything made from them. Looks like more Colt's, Kimbers, and Springfield Armory pistols for me! ;)

seeker_two
February 17, 2003, 10:53 AM
FYI: Italy is on board w/ our war effort, so you can buy all the Berettas, Benellis, Ubertis, & Tangfolios (EAA) you want! :D And don't forget all the surplus coming from the former Bloc nations that are also on our side...:D :D :D

I don't currently own anything from the "Axis of Weasels" in my gun collection (sold the SIG 220 & the Glock 17 long ago), but I will refrain from buying from them. Besides (as seen above), there are a LOT of other options...:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Marshall
February 17, 2003, 04:45 PM
Don't they know that the President can just up and start a war with whoever he wants to, whenever he wants to?

Dang, I could have sworn Congress gave him this power just a couple months ago, maybe it was just a dream? ;)

Carlos Cabeza
February 17, 2003, 05:27 PM
I don't think the President needs any "approval" only that he would like some "support"...........

G-Raptor
February 17, 2003, 05:47 PM
I'm keeping my Glocks.

I don't hold European manufacturers responsible for their government's foreign policy position any more than I hold GM responsible for ours.

The French and Germans are doing a good job of isolating themselves (politically) from the US and the rest of Europe. They are entitled to their opinion. Furthermore, they have started a process that can lead to the end of NATO and the UN - I don't see either as a great loss.

As long as they make good products I will consider them, but I'm not interested in their political drivel. However, if they start to engage the US militarily, my attitude will change.

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