Found some interesting facts while searching gun issues in encylopedia


July 11, 2004, 10:04 PM
Doing some link surfing from one site to another, I came across an entry in Wikipedia ( and decided to stay there a while browsing 2nd amendment/gun issues.

Was pleasantly surprised that an entry for Colt's XM-177 ( included a note that "it is not a true sub-machine gun, since the latter fires pistol ammunition". Hmm, they seem to know their technical gun facts.

Clicking on submachine gun ( contained a link to the National Firearms Act of 1934 ( which stated that "the law was found to be unconstitutional in State vs. Miller, though the ruling was overturned on appeal to the Supreme Court as the defendant failed to appear, and no brief was filled on Miller's behalf." Hmm, interesting. Wonder why he didn't appear at his own appeal?

Clicking on the link to the definition for the 2nd Amendment ( revealed that he didn't show up because he was murdered. Wow! I didn't know that. I wonder how things would have changed if he'd never been killed and showed up.

The definition further stated that the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in the 2001 case United States v. Emerson, "as used throughout the Constitution, 'the people' have 'rights' and 'powers,' but federal and state governments only have 'powers' or 'authority', never 'rights.'" Furthermore, There is no evidence in the text of the Second Amendment, or any other part of the Constitution, that the words 'the people' have a different connotation within the Second Amendment than when employed elsewhere in the Constitution." Cool ruling!

I then clicked on the definiton of the Assault weapons ban ( There I found some interesting info including "This law is ineffective because the particular features that are prohibited do not enhance the capabilities of a given weapon, they remain in fact identical to their non-prohibited counterparts. Thus, making these features illegal does nothing to prevent crime or make the guns any less dangerous, especially since they were used in less than 1% of crimes to begin with."

The link from there to the term assault weapons ( describes the confusion between the terms assault weapon and assault rifle: "The frequent and innacurate use of the term assault rifle by media and gun control supporters when reporting on or discussing assault weapons has produced a popular misconception that assault weapons are fully-automatic machine guns. Some commentators use the terms interchangeably, potentially confusing the less-informed public, perhaps intentionally to encourage opposition to firearms."

Links to disarmament groups such as the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence ( are interesting as well. :)

Very cool website!

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July 11, 2004, 10:10 PM
who murdered miller?

were black helicopters involved? :evil:

July 11, 2004, 10:18 PM
who murdered miller?

were black helicopters involved? Good question. Unfortunately, there is no specific entry for U.S. v. Miller.

However, I think it's safe to assume that they didn't have black helos in the 30's. I suppose that black limos could have been involved though. ;)

July 12, 2004, 12:06 AM
Wikipedia ( is pretty cool.

I'm not sure on the specifics but I believe that literally anyone can add thier own entry or modify other entires.

But to prevent one person from completely screwing up something they know nothing about the site also stores all the previously revised version of a given page, and there is a section where people can discuss to revert the main entry to an older version if its needed.

Anyways because of all of this Wikipedia is a pretty good encyclopedia as it covers many subjects that other encyclopedias would never cover, not enough space or they just dont care about.

July 12, 2004, 02:08 AM
I found it interesting that the High Road was listed in Gun Politics in the US ( on Wikipedia. It's listed as a "prominent advocacy organization in this field".


July 12, 2004, 02:47 AM
That site has an amazing amount of content. :what:

July 12, 2004, 10:25 AM
who murdered miller?

were black helicopters involved?

Miller was a bootlegger and associated with a lot of unsavory characters who probably had something to do with his demise.

July 12, 2004, 12:51 PM
I never heard that Miller had been murdered, but if alive, he probably would not have shown up. He was just a hillybilly moonshiner.

The really unfortunate part of the case is that Miller's lawyer did not so much as file a brief. If he had just filed a brief, SCOTUS likely would have upheld the disctrict court decision. The only argument that the SCOTUS heard was from the government/ATF so they ruled based on the facts presented from them.

July 12, 2004, 03:19 PM
if alive, he probably would not have shown up. Why would you say that? Isn't he the guy that walked into a police station and told them that he had an unregistered NFA weapon with the intent of fighting the law?

Henry Bowman
July 12, 2004, 05:30 PM
DMK - No, not that Miller.

July 12, 2004, 05:57 PM
The whole point of wikipedia is that it's users can add to it... that's why it's so good. So if you have something to add, submit it :)

Andrew Rothman
July 12, 2004, 06:00 PM
Yup, Wikipedia is an open-source encyclopedia -- like Linux is an open-source OS.

Volunteer writers and editors are responsible for all of the content.

Individually, people are pretty ignorant, but when you get thousands of them working together, the knowledge is pretty incredible.

Of course, the people USING Wiki are an interesting subset of the world population. They are highly intelligent, technically savvy, open-source friendly and have a strong independent streak.

In other words, they are hackers and geeks.

And like so many of us, they tend to have very libertarian philosophies. :)

July 12, 2004, 06:11 PM
There was a very interesting article ( on Slashdot ( about Wikipedia ( recently.

"Today Wikipedia reached the 300,000 article mark. Wikipedia is a 3-year-old non-profit project to build an encyclopedia using WikiWiki software. All text is licensed under the GFDL. It has everything that a traditional encyclopedia would, but also many things that would never get written about, such as Crushing by elephant and the GNU/Linux naming controversy. For size comparisons, the English Wikipedia has 90.1 million words across 300,000 articles, compared to Britannica's 55 million words across 85,000 articles. (All the languages combined together reach 790,000 articles.) For much of the first half of 2004, Wikipedia's growth has outstripped server capacity - however, the shortage of PHP/MySQL developers is probably the biggest long term problem facing the project. Slashdot had previously reported when Wikipedia reached the 200,000 mark."

For those who want to replicate the old activity of opening a volume of the encyclopedia to a random article, Wikipedia has a Random Article ( function.

July 12, 2004, 10:06 PM
Based on how many people are indicted every year named Miller for gun crimes, YOU HAVE TO BE MORE SPECIFIC WHEN QUOTING MILLER

Miller as in short barrelled shotgun
Miller as in non-business premises FFL/cahoots with Shoot Straight Khalid out of Apopka
Miller as in making non registered NFA firearms


July 12, 2004, 10:12 PM
Why would you say that? Isn't he the guy that walked into a police station and told them that he had an unregistered NFA weapon with the intent of fighting the law?

No. Two ATF agents were looking for bootleggers and set up an ambush in the woods where an informant told them a still was. Along comes a truck. 2 guys get out and start loading bags into the truck. No moonshine, but sugar. Stills were long destroyed. Agents pissed they had to go out in the woods with no collar start snooping around and find a short shotgun. Miller didn't have the $5 tax stamp for it.

Don Gwinn
July 13, 2004, 12:05 AM
Miller as in short-barrelled shotgun in a truck.

Miller was alive when the case went to the Supreme Court, but he was nowhere to be found. It is assumed that he went on the run.

He was found murdered a considerable time later (at least a year, I believe) so was not killed before the USSC arguments. No conspiracy there.

If you haven't read Unintended Consequences yet, this is a good reason to do so. He gives a very readable, fictional-feeling account of the facts of the Miller case.

July 13, 2004, 12:13 AM
he didn't show up because he was murdered

Hmmmmm. Looks like he really did need that sawed-off shotgun! :what:

July 13, 2004, 12:50 AM
"A well graduated Academia being necessary to the prosperity of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Books shall not be infringed."

Totally awesome! :D

July 13, 2004, 04:01 PM
I couldn't stand the word "clip" in place of "magazine" on the "assault weapons" page, so I changed it.

EDIT: Man, this is FUN! I've added definitions for DDs and added to both the NFA description and others. I've found a new hobby.

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