[Nobody]

Can a simple, effective, and reliable extractor be added to a Beretta model 21a?

[Badger Arms]

Why? Not trying to be argumentative, but the gun functions fine without the extractor. You can clear the pistol by flipping the barrel up. There is no manual-of-arms reason nor is there a functional reason to have an extractor.

The engineering answer would be, sure, you can add an extractor to the right side of the slide but it would involve testing, development, and some good machining skills.

[Nobody]

Ah, that's what I figured. Why you ask? Well, about 50% of the internet threads I read say that it doesn't function to well and about 50% of the internet threads I read say that it functions just fine. Who to believe? I was just wandering about options if I acquired one and it didn't work so hot. Lots of folks say that it needs higher powered .22 ammo to function reliably. It seems like an extractor would make it more functional with normal velocity fodder. Just a guess though. Thanks for the info.

[Jim Watson]

The main tactical advantage an extractor would be to a B21 would be the capability of clearing a misfire. If the round goes off, it is pretty likely to exit the gun.

The one I briefly owned was not reliable. It would fail to feed or fail to fire, depending on the ammo, but I recollect no failures to eject. Dealer was honest enough to take it back and issue a credit and I was glad to be rid of it. A friend has one that shoots every time. Mass produced guns are a crapshoot.

I have an old CZ45 .25 that is much more reliable, and a Kel Tec .32 that is after a little of what the fan club calls "fluff and buff."

[Badger Arms]

Right now I only have four Model 21's, but none of them fail to extract or eject. All failures come in the form of failure to feed and an occasional failure to fire as in the primer does not ignite. These problems are inherint to any small 22 and some pistols are better than others. Clearing a misfire involves waiting for about 30 seconds to prevent a hangfire and then flipping the barrel up and dropping the offending round out. There is no need to ever draw the slide back unless you plan on doing a tactical reload with a gun that's completely unsuited for Ninja tactics. I'll admit that I don't use any light loads so maybe those will fail to eject on occassion. The extractor is superfolous on most blowbacks in terms of the operation of the gun. A blowback most often performs just fine without an extractor until you try to clear the chamber... then it gets hairy. Any discharge sufficient to work the slide will also eject the round.

[Badger Arms]

I have an old CZ45 .25 that is much more reliable, and a Kel Tec .32 that is after a little of what the fan club calls "fluff and buff."I too am a fan of the CZ-45. You know, they still make them in the Czech Republic. They call it the CZ-92 now, but it's the same design. Take a look at the photos:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1114375 http://www.czub.cz/products/firearms/CZ_92/CZ_92.jpg

[Nobody]

Thanks for the opinions and expertise folks. Once again, I've learned a lot.

[Brian D.]

Nobody, I'd say it would be a much better "percentage bet" to do a few other things with the B21A: 1) Keep it reasonably clean for best operation (duh!) 2) If needed, have the chamber polished a bit. 3) Figure out which ammo it likes best and stick with that choice for any "serious" usage of the gun.

[Jim K]

Badger Arms' experience pretty much reflects mine. I don't recall any failures to eject with any of those little Berettas.

Note that on any blowback pistol, the extractor plays no role except to act as a pivot point for ejection. If this is not needed, it has no function, since the case is extracted (pushed out) by its own internal pressure, not pulled out by the extractor.

In most pistols, the extractor does serve to remove an unfired round from the chamber, either to remove a dud or to clear the gun. In the Berettas and some other guns, the tip-up barrel serves those functions.

Jim

[Herb Fredricksen]

A vote for extractors.

I love my 21A .22LR for plinking even when a round fails to fire on first or second strike or when a case fails to eject for whatever reason. However if either strike swages the rim into the chamber so it won't drop out or if the fired case has expanded in the chamber and hasn't ejected and won't eject, the dud or empty case will have to be removed the hard way, with finger nail, screwdriver tip, or some rod up the bore, all after waiting 30 seconds for a live round hangfire to pass or some fewer seconds for a spent and stuck case to be extracted by hand.

Neither condition makes my 21A .22LR suitable for self defense unless nothing else is available. Plinking = nuisance. Defense = life or death!

My 950BS .25acp was bought to get past the statistical disadvantage of a rimfire and it probably does. But one blown primer that left a spent and expanded case in the chamber put me in the same time delay as any of the above and is also unsuitable for self defense.

I now want an extractor on any pistol I use for self defense. An ejector is not enough. Whether dud or spent case I want it pulled out of the chamber so a fresh round will feed without my intervention. Life is too short already.

My 318, 418, 948 and 92 Berettas have extractors because they are not tip-up barrel models. I doubt an extractor is possible on a tip-up barrel. Once engaged on the rim it would interfere with the tip-up swing of the barrel.

Herb Fredricksen

PS, the CZ-45/CZ-92 is a winner. Notice the extractor! So is the Duo.

[GaryK]

My 21a functions fine with either Federal, Remington, or Winchester brick ammo that I buy from Walmart. These little pistols are pretty specialized. They are not real good for plinking because the short barrel and inadequate sights makes it hard to hit anything. They are also not powerful enough for self defense. I live in Houston and during the summer I need something small to carry when wearing shorts and can't carry anything larger. I carry it when it is a choice between it and nothing. It beats nothing by a mile.