Anyone carry a 1911 cocked and unlocked?


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natedog
July 14, 2004, 11:49 PM
As in with the hammer back, round chambered, magazine seated, with the safety disengaged? People carry DAs, DAOs, and Glocks like this...it seems like if you observe the 4 Rules (especially "keep your fingers off the trigger until you're ready to shoot"), you'd be alright. Your thoughts?

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1911Ron
July 14, 2004, 11:56 PM
No i would not carry one unlocked, would you be safe maybe. The best safety is between the ears. My safety goes on as soon as i load it and stays on untill i shoot it or unload it.

Kruzr
July 15, 2004, 12:24 AM
I've only seen a guy with a limp carrying that way.

JohnKSa
July 15, 2004, 12:33 AM
Well, these are not my thoughts...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63002&highlight=cocked+unlocked

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29307&highlight=cocked+unlocked

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38237&highlight=cocked+unlocked

PBIR
July 15, 2004, 06:56 AM
No. I carry a 1911 cocked and locked at work. I would not advise unlocked.

Obiwan
July 15, 2004, 08:16 AM
This comes up a lot.

There is no reason to carry any weapon that is equipped with a manual safety...without engaging that safety.

Since all your training MUST include disengaing the safety at some point before firing.

(Exactly when is another discussion)

Not training to remove the safety...EVERY time you want to shoot.....means that Mr. Murphy will certainly see that it is ON when you want the gun to go bang.

Talk about an uncomfortable silence

Newton
July 15, 2004, 08:36 AM
Well I get your point.

There must be countless thousands of 1911 owners who are horrified at the thought of carrying their weapon unlocked, even with the ever present grip safety. But when the warmer weather arrives, they are more than happy to stuff a Glock 26 in their pocket and wander around with a gun that has it's safety mounted on the trigger (brake pedal on top of the gas pedal ?), and no manual or grip safeties.

The best safety may well be between the ears, but my "between the ears" safety tells me that you can't have too many backups.

For me personaly, the thought of discharging a firearm in a crowded movie theater when I'm in the process of sitting down is a worse nightmare than being mugged when my gun is at home.

Cocked and locked guns are a little scary for carry, give me one of the new LEM or QA triggers any day.

Donning flame suit.

Newton

wildehond
July 15, 2004, 09:00 AM
Newton

Everyone must do what they feel comfortable with. That is why there are deferent handguns for deferent people. That is the the whole idea of living in a free country.

Cocked and not locked.

As far I can remember the grip safety was installed because the cavalry wanted to be able to carry with a cocked and unlocked handgun. I suppose when you need a handgun on a horse and in batlle, you need it fast.

wildehond

1911Tuner
July 15, 2004, 09:05 AM
In the beginning...there was no thumb safety. It was added at the behest of the Department of the Army.

Cocked and locked is scary because the hammer is visible, and it gives the impression that the weapon is set to go off. It won't happen...even if the thumb safety isn't engaged. It won't happen if the sear nose breaks off
an eighth of an inch from the tip...It won't happen if both hammer hooks shear off. It won't happen if both hammer hooks shear off AND the sear breaks. It won't happen if both hooks shear off and the sear breaks and the grip safety is depressed unless the trigger is pulled.

Bottom line...

It's a GUN. It's NOT safe.

Cheers!

Tuner

Zach S
July 15, 2004, 09:11 AM
I dont. I shoot with a high thumb anyway so the safety is off once I get my firing grip. I dont see what I've got to gain by carrying off-safe.

There must be countless thousands of 1911 owners who are horrified at the thought of carrying their weapon unlocked, even with the ever present grip safety. But when the warmer weather arrives, they are more than happy to stuff a Glock 26 in their pocket and wander around with a gun that has it's safety mounted on the trigger (brake pedal on top of the gas pedal ?), and no manual or grip safeties. Lets see, the 1911 has a much shorter trigger travel, the triggergaurd is the same width of the trigger, and a grip on the pistol (such as re-holstering it) disengages the gripsafety. My Colt and both my Kimbers' triggers break at less than 4 pounds with very little takeup, and my glock has much more takeup and a 5.5(?) lb trigger.

Apples and oranges.

FWIW, despite the warmer weather, my glock stays in the safe, and my carry gun is either a goverment model Colt 1991A1 or a 4" kimber.

Z_Infidel
July 15, 2004, 10:56 AM
The thumb safety on a 1911 is so intuitive and easy to engage/disengage that I see no good reason not to engage it while carrying. It almost becomes an unconscious action to engage and disengage the safety at the proper times -- assuming the pistol is used enough to gain that kind of familiarity.

tommyc
July 15, 2004, 11:37 AM
Cocked and locked is scary because the hammer is visible, and it gives the impression that the weapon is set to go off.

AMEN to that. When I first started carrying, I carried a Glock 30. Never thought anything about it being loaded. Just made sure I folllowed the 4 rules.
When I switched to carrying a 1911, cocked and locked, I was a little nervous at first being able to see that hammer cocked back.
It took me about two weeks to get used to it. Now strapping on the 1911 is like putting my wallet in my pocket.

Wichaka
July 15, 2004, 12:25 PM
Not my way of doin' things, but the gun is designed not to drop the hammer unless the trigger is pulled. Alot of folks get queasy just from seeing the hammer back.

1911Tuner
July 15, 2004, 01:29 PM
WICHAKA! Welcome to THR! Good to have ya.

Ladies and laddies...Give a hearty hoorah asnd a welcome in to Wichaka.
He's pretty sharp in the ways of pistolwrenchin', and a fine
fella. Good to have ya on board, mah fren.

Coffee?

MrAcheson
July 15, 2004, 01:34 PM
Cocked and unlocked is not safe. If I recall correctly the grip safety on a 1911 only blocks the trigger, not the rest of the mechanism. You can't depend on it alone and still be completely sure the gun is drop safe, etc. The manual safety blocks the sear so unless you have a huge mechanical failure you'll be ok. Even if you have a huge mechanical failure you'll probably be ok as 1911tuner said.

Wichaka
July 15, 2004, 03:09 PM
Thanks Tuner! I was wonderin' where all you're hangin' out at.

I joined up a few months ago and have been busy on some of the other sites. Was cleaning out my bookmarks on the comp. saw and remembered this one. Got it up to the top now, so will be here more often.


You got a nice web site, got a border of my own. Best dog I ever had.
She showed up in my field about 4-5 years ago, bedded down with the cows. Took her in to the vet to be checked over. Healthy & fixed to boot!
Kids love her.........sometimes too much I think.........she sure puts up with a lot.

If the coffee's on, my cup is ready...................

striker3
July 15, 2004, 11:52 PM
I would have to say no to this. There are two main reasons:

1. As has been mentioned above, taking the weapon off of safe should be a fundemental part of anyone's presentation. Good Ol' murph you know. When you need a weapon, the first thing that a BG should see is the muzzle flash, not a look of shock, followed by a immediate action drill, followed by another look of shock when you realize the saftey is on.(Seen it happen in training.) If you are going to practice disengaging the safety, might as well keep it locked.

2. The biggest risk is in the act of reholstering. Most people flag themselves at some point, especially with IWB holsters. The light trigger pull of a single action, coupled with an obstruction(leather holsters that collapse?) can cause an ND. Comparing a Glock to a 1911 doesn't work. The Glock is a DAO with a stiff trigger and slack. The 1911 is SA with a light trigger and little-no slack

rbert0005
July 16, 2004, 04:59 PM
Yeh,

You will notice him right away. He is the one with only one butt cheek.

Bob

Dave Sample
July 16, 2004, 05:38 PM
NO WAY!!!!!!! I carry cocked and LOCKED. Any other way would be silly.

shep854
July 16, 2004, 07:09 PM
I get the impression that Mr Browning originally had something in mind like the Tokarev TT-33, which was designed without a thumb safety or grip safety. The thinking seemed to be that it was to be carried chamber empty. If it had to be drawn and charged, you were in a fight and were intending to shoot. Afterward, you cleared the gun and reholstered. The safeties were added at the behest of the Army.

sigman4rt
July 17, 2004, 01:56 AM
When you load and chamber a round in a Glock, then stuff it in your pocket the hammer/striker is NOT in the cocked position. If you follow one simple rule, keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target, nothing bad will EVER happen!!

rkba_net
July 17, 2004, 03:51 AM
This is a very interesting? The British SAS used to carry their Browning Hi-Powers in Condition 0 ... I have two problems with this...

- since the 1911 has such a light trigger and short throw it would be risky to do this when re-holstering.

-the safety also prevents the slide from going out of battery during re-holstering.

So would carrying a 1911 (that had a firing pin block) in condition 0 really be all that dangerous IF you had the safety ENGAGED during reholstering and disegaged it once it was in the holster? Probably not...

Vern Humphrey
July 17, 2004, 11:00 AM
Quote:
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The thinking seemed to be that it was to be carried chamber empty. If it had to be drawn and charged, you were in a fight and were intending to shoot. Afterward, you cleared the gun and reholstered. The safeties were added at the behest of the Army.
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Quote:
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As far I can remember the grip safety was installed because the cavalry wanted to be able to carry with a cocked and unlocked handgun. I suppose when you need a handgun on a horse and in batlle, you need it fast.
----------------------------------------

The safties were ideed added at the behest of the Army. And the cavalry did have functional proponency. Cavalry needed a gun that could be operated with one hand -- which means carrying cocked-and-locked.

They did NOT want cocked and UNlocked carry, however -- the Army always mandated either Condition 3 or Condition 1, depending on circumstances.

Hypnogator
July 17, 2004, 02:06 PM
Before I got my Taurus PT-145, I used to carry a Detonics cocked and unlocked. FWIW, it also had no grip safety. :what:

BUT I always carried it in a thumb-break pancake or shoulder holster with the safety strap between the hammer and firing pin, and always habitually thumbed the safety down when I drew it, in case the safety somehow managed to engage (it never did).

Don't recall ever having shot anyone I shouldn't ought to have! :neener: :neener:

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