Understanding MO handgun laws...


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KaceCoyote
July 16, 2004, 12:39 AM
Alright the NRA says site I cant own, reguardless of who buys it for me a handgun. until I'm 21. Assuming I read what was posted right. However yesterday at Cabelas whilst eyeballing a rather nice Springfield GI .45 or whatnot the clerk told me I could OWN as long as I didnt buy it. So now I'm completely confused.

I'd love to snag a handgun here but what with this business about age limits. I'm 19 now, so can I just bully my mother (who's slowly becoming progun) into making the purchase and giving it over(a straw purchase?) or do I hafta wait 2 more years?


ANY help would be greatly appreciated.


edit:Fingers outpaced brain...again.

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Baba Louie
July 16, 2004, 01:56 AM
You can legally OWN a handgun thats a gift from a family member or one that you buy from a non-licensed (FFL) source, you just cannot legally buy a handgun from a licensed FFL dealer until your 21st birthday. See? It makes all the sense in the world now doesn't it? Brought to you/us by the GCA 68. Oh yeah, ammo purchase for a handgun when under the age of 21... its for a carbine. Hard to sell that line to some people who might know everything and tell you there ain't any such things in .38 spl, .357., 9MM, .44 spl, .44 mag, .45acp and .45 Colt... but you and I know that there are...

whm1974
July 16, 2004, 05:24 AM
I'd love to snag a handgun here but what with this business about age limits. I'm 19 now, so can I just bully my mother (who's slowly becoming progun) into making the purchase and giving it over(a straw purchase?) or do I hafta wait 2 more years?

If she buys it for you as a gift, then no it's not a "straw purchase". Samething if she buys it for herself but sells it to you a few months later becuase she didn't like it.

-Bill

The_Doc
July 16, 2004, 02:18 PM
There's a catch with MO law though - MO requires a permit to transfer handguns, even if it's given as a gift. And you have to be 21 to get that permit. With limited exceptions, there is no such thing as a legal private transfer of a handgun in MO without a permit.

From the statute:

571.080. 1. A person commits the crime of transfer of a concealable firearm without a permit if:

(1) He buys, leases, borrows, exchanges or otherwise receives any concealable firearm, unless he first obtains and delivers to the person delivering the firearm a valid permit authorizing the acquisition of the firearm; or

(2) He sells, leases, loans, exchanges, gives away or otherwise delivers any concealable firearm, unless he first demands and receives from the person receiving the firearm a valid permit authorizing such acquisition of the firearm.

2. A permit to acquire a concealable firearm shall only be valid for thirty days after the issuance thereof.

3. Subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to the acquisition by or transfer of concealable firearms among manufacturers, wholesalers or retailers of firearms for purposes of commerce; nor shall it apply to antique firearms or replicas thereof; nor shall it apply to curio or relic firearms as defined in section 571.010.

4. Transfer of concealable firearms without a permit is a class A misdemeanor.


And an excerpt of the permit requirements:

571.090. 1. A permit to acquire a concealable firearm shall be issued by the sheriff of the county in which the applicant resides, if all of the statements in the application are true, and the applicant:

(1) Is at least twenty-one years of age, a citizen of the United States and has resided in this state for at least six months;

and so on.

jmcc11
July 16, 2004, 02:56 PM
The_Doc is right. In Missouri you have to get a permit to acquire. So by law even if I just loan you a handgun to go hunting or to the range you have to get a permit. This may be rarely enforced (in my part of the state anyway) but it is the law.

KaceCoyote
July 16, 2004, 03:15 PM
ok...SO. I can have her BUY it for me, then get the permit and give it too me....


Or I can find a non-FFL guy like perhaps a pawn shop...and just buy it through there?

The_Doc
July 16, 2004, 03:58 PM
If you're mother was to buy it, she'd have to get a permit first to buy from the dealer, then when she gives it to you, you would have to get a permit to receive it from her. But since you're under 21, you can't get a permit.

And no, you can't legally get one from a non-FFL - you still need that permit to acquire. Even in a private transfer. As jmcc11 says, it does seem rarely enforced among non-licensees. In fact, I bet a lot of MO residents are unaware that the permit is required in private transfers. Still, you know what they say - ignorance of the law is no excuse. I sure wouldn't transfer one without a permit.

BTW, if the pawn shop handles guns, you can bet they have an FFL.

KaceCoyote
July 16, 2004, 04:21 PM
Alright pretty sure I understand now. THis is what -I- dont get.

when I'm 18 I can smoke, buy rifles,shotguns, vote, be sent off to die for my country and be considered legally an adult...

If I signed up for the Marines, became an MP I'd be issued a M9 9mm and I would carry this weapon into combat. I come back to the states. I cant BUY this however, dispite the fact by that point I may or may not be more responsible and fit to handle a beretta than the guy behind the counter because souly of my age.

My .30-30 marlin -will- bash its way through any cop vest on the street, break through a car door and will allow me to do this at about 100+ yards. With my savage I can put .223 brass 2-300 yards downrange at my convience into folks and probably using the surplus 223 FMJ stuff I've got, bust right through that kevlar vest too. However when I go to buy a 9mm or a .45 like my grand-dad had to defend MYSELF and my gun grabbing ignorant family (this neighborhood is going to craps) I cant. Because the ability to go to combat, to drive multi million dollar peices of deadly destrustive might doesnt allow me to carry a lowly 9mm. I can understand a CCW at 21 I really can. Most folks my age arent entirely responsible however to restict ownership?

So I'm being forced into only being able to purchase MORE DEADLY, longer range weapons with bigger more evil magazines and -gasp- a bayonet perhaps..because I'm not mature enough at 19 to be able to handle a less powerful weapon. "Its concealable" bah! So the hell what! I could load up my marlin, throw 40rnds in my jacket pocket and go to town in a shopping mall if you wanna go down -THAT- route. If somones gonna committ a crime they've already decided to break one major law(read murder) and they think he's gonna stop because of some BS misdomenor? COME ON. YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE MORALITY. I could understand(not agree not agree not agree) if it was the other way around. Restricting the more powerful(read deadly) weapons until I was 21, I can see the logic there and I could tell you worse ways of doing it. Like this here now.


Raise your hand if this makes -ANY- sense to you. I have just lost all respect for my state government.

John Ross
July 17, 2004, 06:29 PM
Note that the Permit To Acquire is not needed if the gun is a C&R. (This is a recent change we got passed about three years ago.)

So get your mother to buy you a .45 built on a WWII frame. (Any gun whose frame or receiver is over 50 years old is automatically a C&R.)

JR

KaceCoyote
July 17, 2004, 06:47 PM
Erk, think you could help me find one? I dont even know where to BEGIN to look. I'm alittle overwhelmed at te moment.

cropcirclewalker
July 17, 2004, 10:27 PM
The Missouri PTA horse hockey has a statute of limitations of 1 year. Even if you get caught, it's only a misdeamenor.

Do NOT Try this at HOME!

If you found someone who has known you fer years and whom you trusted not to be some kind of ATF informer or whatever, you could get them to write you out a bill of sale and date it for a year and one day ago, you would be in the clear. Provided that everything was clean.. i.e. write the BOS out on the back of one of last years calandar pages, make sure the "seller" has owned the piece for more than a year, etc. cover the bases. etc, etc.

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME :p


Please remember that even though an unconstitutional law is repugnant to the constitution and need not be complied with, you need to be sure that you are not caught breaking that unconstitutional law. Cover your bases.

Do Not try this at home :p

buy guns
July 17, 2004, 10:49 PM
KaceCoyote, its for your own good now be a good sheep and follow the herd :D.

seriously though, like every gun law it doesnt make sense. if i were you i would just get your mom to buy the gun then when i go to the range be sure to drive absolutely perfect as to not get pulled over...or do what crop circle said.

Bullet
July 19, 2004, 03:53 AM
I think if your old enough to get drafted you should be old enough to have all the rights that others do. Some of the laws don't make much sense. If you come to Kansas you can't even buy a beer.

KaceCoyote
July 19, 2004, 03:59 AM
Wait in what state CAN you buy beer if ya'll are under 21?

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