[bogie]

Went to John Ross' concealed carry course (finally!).

The four hours of classroom training were pretty informative - even learned a few things I didn't already know...

And a seed was planted...

...which started to grow at the range session on Sunday.

At 7 yards, group size doesn't matter. I suspect that my technique isn't exactly what he propounds, but I'll try to put it together in the following sentence...

Close is good enough for horseshoes, hand grenades, small tactical nuclear weapons, and 1911A1s...

Yup. I know. That's blasphemy to us accuracy nuts. But you know what? Draw, get the safety off, stick it out there, and yank twice on the trigger, and I can get two shots into upper center mass FAST. A lot faster than I could actually "aiming." Yeah, I know where the front sight is, and where the rear sight is, but when I'm not too particular about just how they're playing together, there's two rounds downrange before I'd even get a "real" sight picture.

I'd NEVER shot in that fashion before (well, at least not since I was 12-13 and trying to play fastdraw with a bb gun...).

[DMK]

The idea of point shooting always interested me so I'm casually played with it a bit. Putting a couple .45 holes in an 8x11 piece of paper at 7 yards without actually aiming isn't really that difficult if you've had some practice.

Of course, the paper target isn't moving....

[cslinger]

When I did my first IPSC type scenarios I was amazed at how little I used the sights and how well I did. It really was all about point shooting. Now in the hostage taker type targets I obviously used my sights but even though front sight was enough for me to get a round into the noggin of the HT.

What I learned was trigger pull was a moot point, I brought my SIG P225 which has a horrendous double action pull and when the buzzer went off and the adrenaline started moving I never even felt that pull.

I learned that I feel adequately armed with 7-9 rounds of ammunition. I was able to make my hits and build my confidence level up. I realize the pucker factor of the real thing is totally different but this was at least an attempt at approximation.

I learned that I shoot very well instinctively, much better then when I stress out over trigger control, breathing etc. I may not have had pretty groups but center mass and head seemed easier for me to make instinctively then when I am at the range telling myself to follow all the rules of accurate shooting or telling myself we are going to double tap or Mozambique.

There is a lot to be said for getting rounds into a target fast no matter how pretty it may not be. Hopefully those rounds will de-motivate an attacker enough to at least buy you retreat time.

Chris

[cerberus]

The stupid range I have to use won't allow the target to be closer then 25 yards on normal shooting days. But during the CCW class shoot they pull the target up close.

[bogie]

Oh yeah - And I'm gonna buy a Glock too... Actually liked it, and it shoots where I point it (as does my 1911) - My Security Six shoots low, as does a J frame.

[Thumper]

I'm another that's seen the light. I was a devotee of always using my sights for years, then, during a side match at a PPC shoot, I discovered that I could get extremely fast, accurate hits one handed out to 12 feet. This without even consciously indexing the gun in my line of sight.

I'd read Applegate and Fairbairn in my teens. I still can't believe I just completely disregarded the guys that actually had the real world experience.

If it's up close and personal, you can be effective without those sights.

[sturmruger]

Cslinger I had the same experience as you. Until April I had never shot against a timer. I started shooting IPSC this spring and have been shooting at a league once a week ever since May. It is amazing the amount of shooting I do in a stage where I am just point shooting. Until you have a good reason to hurry point shooting doesn't seem as practical. Once you start shooting for time and score the value of point shooting becomes apparent. Once I stopped trying to religiously use my sights my times have really improved.

[bogie]

Well, I suspect that this is gonna cost me... I'm gonna probably pick up a progressive loader and dedicate it to just .45s...

[Larry Ashcraft]

This guy teaches point shooting from what I understand:

http://www.tacticalshooting.com/index-main.htm

Congressional Medal of Honor winner Drew Dix has taken the course and recommended it to me.

[Ktulu]

Point shooting may have its place in personal defense but I think all the top competition shooters use the sights for each and every shot. Quality of sight picture and trigger pull vary depending and the range.

[cordex]

A couple weeks ago, I was shooting with some friends who own property they've turned into a dedicated private range. Among other neat toys, they have a dueling miniature pepper-popper setup with two small pepper poppers that fall slightly towards each other. Both shooters stand at ready and a third person says "shoot!". You draw and shoot and the popper that falls first will end up on the bottom.

The gentleman I was "dueling" against is a far better shot than I. He's attended more shooting schools (and had just hosted a beginner class on his range), uses a superior handgun, has fired many thousands more rounds than I and had years of practice in before I even started shooting. No surprise that he generally shoots faster and more accurately than I am capable.

However, as soon as I stopped trying to align a perfect sight picture and started shooting as soon as I knew gun was on target (even if I couldn't explain exactly how I knew), I started winning about as often as I lost - maybe more than I lost.

I was amazed. I'd often shunned "instinctive" shooting, but looking at the sights without being all that concerned with having them precisely lined up for my eyes made for some oddly accurate and very fast shooting.

[TarpleyG]

Draw, get the safety off, stick it out there, and yank twice on the trigger, and I can get two shots into upper center mass FAST
I very seldom find my sights in shooting anything within 20 or so feet while shooting IDPA matches. Sometimes that's a good thing sometimes it isn't. I am just about always on target somewhere just not in the A zone.

Greg

[Standing Wolf]

Close is good enough for horseshoes, hand grenades, small tactical nuclear weapons, and 1911A1s

Speaking strictly as a bullseye pistol shooter, you're 100% correct.

[444]

"Yeah, I know where the front sight is, and where the rear sight is, but when I'm not too particular about just how they're playing together, there's two rounds downrange before I'd even get a "real" sight picture."

"...but looking at the sights without being all that concerned with having them precisely lined up for my eyes made for some oddly accurate and very fast shooting."

I completely agree. The closer the target, the less you need a "perfect" sight picture. However what is being described doesn't sound to me, like point shooting. It sounds like you are using your sights, you are just not worrying about their alignment. For me, I shoot the fastest (with the required accuracy) by concentrating on my front sight and totally ignoring my rear sight although I know that it is close to alignment. If you use a good stance and your body is indexed correctly, you will draw the gun, bring it up to your eye and the sights will be fairly close to being aligned. This won't cut it in bullseye competition, but for defensive use or in the various action shooting games, you will have more than enough accuracy. I regularly compete in a man on man steel match. The range is around 10 yards (roughly). You have to have enough accuracy to hit reduced sized pepper poppers at that range. Other than that accuracy requirement, it is all about speed. This rough sight picture provides plenty of accuracy for this event (front sight on target). I find however that if I am not focused on my front sight (I am instead looking at the target) that I begin missing.
What I am doing is definitely not point shooting. I am using my sights in a very corse manner and am counting on my stance and body index to do the rest.