I'm looking for a new range gun that I can keep in the pickup. I don't want anything fancy and don't want to pay an arm and leg for it. I'd be happy if it was in .30 but be willing to settle for something in the 6mm or 7mm range. Any suggestions?
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July 20, 2004, 11:37 AM
EAA Saiga 7.62*39
July 20, 2004, 11:44 AM
do you have a prefered action type? size restriction? materials preference?
July 20, 2004, 11:49 AM
The one I've really been taking a close look at is the Marlin 336Y Spikehorn----these are REALLY small with 5+1 shots of .30-30 power.
Resonably priced-------fast handling----fairly cheap ammo---won't spook the sheeple----not a huge loss if stolen----although any loss would be a bitter pill.
July 20, 2004, 11:53 AM
bolt or lever would be fine, carbine length would be acceptable but could be flexable in that.
July 20, 2004, 11:57 AM
Big 5 has some M44's on sale right now for $79.
July 20, 2004, 12:08 PM
That's not a bad idea but where do I get the Russian ammo that is fit for sport use? ie; soft point hunting rounds? I know there is alot of mil surplus out there but haven't seen too much in sporting rounds.
July 20, 2004, 02:09 PM
I think one of the best truck guns is the SKS.
I carry a SKS paratrooper model in my truck and a regular SKS model in my SUV with 100 rounds. The AK/SKS (7.62x39) family are not my favorite but for cost and realibility the SKS works. Lets face it if your truck gets ripped off won't you much wheter lose a $100.00-150.00 SKS than an AR./L1A1 etc.
Also if you know you're going to a gun fight take a rifle.
Vietnam Vet. against Kerry
Remember to pray for our troops
July 20, 2004, 02:36 PM
That's not a bad idea but where do I get the Russian ammo that is fit for sport use? ie; soft point hunting rounds?
I haven't looked into it, because I don't have anything that shoots 7.62x54R, but don't Barnaul and Wolf both produce this Russkie round?
I know you can get both in 7.62x39 soft point and hollow point.
July 20, 2004, 03:02 PM
Castin' a vote for a lever rifle...Doesn't draw unwanted attention like a rifle with a box magazine or eveil flash supressor or bayonette lug.
30-30 or .44 magnum caliber is good...If you want shorter than
carbine-lenght, the Winchester M-94 Trapper model is available.
(Well..okay. In a pistol caliber, it's technically a Model 92, but I
ain't gonna nit-pick)
Lends itself to shoot one/load one drill while in-battery...the 30-30
is amply powrful to handle about anything short of the big bears, and
ammo is cheap and available about everywhere you look.
You can install a Lyman tang-mounted peep sight for those longer shots,
and it folds down automatically when the lever is worked. Neat! I've
got a set-up like that on a Trapper 30-30 that will bust milk jugs out to
150 yards, and stay on a B-27 at 200 if I do my part. No, a 30-30 ain't
exactly a powerhouse, but a 170-grain bullet is guaranteed to ruin a man's
day clean out to 400 yards if you can hit him with it...and don't laugh about
that range with a '94 Winchester until you play with it a little and learn the rifle.
A nylon butt-cuff that holds 10 rounds affords a simple way to carry
ammo, and costs about 3 bucks. I use a staple gun to anchor it.
July 20, 2004, 03:17 PM
I keep M1 Carbines in my cars and truck.
I think my next choice would be the SKS, especially if it was subject to get beat up a bit.
July 20, 2004, 03:17 PM
I tried out a number of truck guns, but the best one was a K-31 Schmidt-Rubin. Ammo is somewhat $$ but getting better. But the big advantage was the magazine. Under local law only CCW weapons or those in the glove box can be kept loaded. The K-31 mag allows the rifle to be loaded in a second. It's much slower to load and unload a lever action or Mauser.
July 20, 2004, 05:26 PM
I have a good used 30-30 that makes a great truck gun., I bought it used from a pawn shop. Looked kinda ratty on the out side. had been neglected and rusted some but the insides were in great shape. Cleaned it up some and now it lives in my pick-up. Not something that I would feel to bad about if it was stolen or abused a little. Only cost about $140 or so and 30-30 is easily available anywhere. ;)
July 20, 2004, 05:57 PM
M-N M44. Built to be abused behind the seat of a truck...or peasant wagon.
It's the Timex of cheap rifles. Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.
July 20, 2004, 06:50 PM
30-30 or .44 magnum caliber is good...If you want shorter than carbine-lenght, the Winchester M-94 Trapper model is available. Well..okay. In a pistol caliber, it's technically a Model 92, but
Actually, no. The M-94 Trapper is in fact a 94 by design- the M92 don't have the toggle deal where the linkage unfolds out the botton side of the receiver. That was John M. Browning's idea.
You can install a Lyman tang-mounted peep sight for those longer shots, and it folds down automatically when the lever is worked.
Ummm, no. I shoot both Ultramax's SASS/CAS cast lead loads and factory or handloads of JSPs. With the hunting loads, the recoil is sufficient to flip the sight down. Not so with the Ultramax CAS loadings- the sight stands up like it's supposed to.
If you don't want that sight to flip down under recoil and slow down your follow-up shot, get a Lyman #66 aperture sight. It bolts to the left side of the receiver as is audible-click adjustable for windage and elevation.
July 20, 2004, 07:57 PM
Do yall keep your truck gun loaded?
July 20, 2004, 08:02 PM
Actually, no. The M-94 Trapper is in fact a 94 by design- the M92 don't have the toggle deal where the linkage unfolds out the botton side of the receiver. That was John M. Browning's
Picky picky picky...:p
Ummm, no. I shoot both Ultramax's SASS/CAS cast lead loads and factory or handloads of JSPs. With the hunting loads, the recoil is sufficient to flip the sight down. Not so with the Ultramax CAS loadings- the sight stands up like it's supposed.
Never had that happen with mine...:scrutiny:
If you don't want that sight to flip down under recoil and slow down your follow-up shot.
I figger that if I do my part, I won't need a follow-up shot at 150+ yards...
and besides...if the rifle is used in an anti-personnel role, as some many truck rifles are intended, sittin' in the same place and takin a second shot is not the way to stay healthy...whether it flies wide of the mark or there are multiple antagonists. Shoot...and lay still, or move!
July 20, 2004, 09:42 PM
Depending on where exactly you live, a 30-30 might be a great choice. There are parts of Texas where the cops would be more amazed if you *didn't* have a 30-30 in the truck than if you did.
July 21, 2004, 12:28 AM
My dad had a similar idea for a truck gun having stopped using his SKS he decided on a CZ 527 in 7.62X39. If your not familiar with them they can be viewed HERE (http://www.cz-usa.com/product.detail.php?id=15) . I've shot it quite a bit and seems pretty damn good. It is light and very handy but I can't manage to keep groups under an inch at 100 yards. Also it has a very nice trigger and box magazine for quick loading. With WOLF 154g pushing 2400 fps its quite a killer, a very nice carbine overall.
July 21, 2004, 09:38 AM
STAPLING THE AMMO CARRIER TO THE BUTT STOCK ?????
I like my leverguns FARRR to much to do that.
I suggest installing a sling stud, poking a hole through the elastic ammo carrier, and reattaching the sling to the stud.
Let the swivel stud hold the carrier !!!
Actually I have numerous "TRUCK" guns.
In no particular order:
1. Remington m742 in .30/06 w/3x-9x scope. Bought for $100. Needed extensive clean up, dissembly and reassembly with locktite. Now shoots 3-shot groups to 1" at 100yds. Much superior to SKS! (has Cabelas steel 10shot magazine, w/ 150gr Rem Cor-lokts loaded over 48.5gr H4895 "its favorite load".)
2. Marlin 336C in .35Remington. My favorite! Cost? $0.00 (Long story, don't ask!) Has 3x-9x scope too. Shoots 1.5" at 100yds with 200gr Cor-lokt at 2,250fps (H4895 too!). Kills deer and pigs DRT (dead right there!)
3. Glenfield (Marlin) m30, .30wcf. Has Williams 5D rear sight and shoots 5-shots ~1" at 50yds with 160gr FNGC at 2,150fps. Sitting in back of P/U as I "type". Rifle was "expensive" at $150.00. Has 9rds in butt carrier, 4 in "4-shot" 1/2-length magazine. NO STAPLES !!!!
4. Remington m870 12ga., w/20" slug barrel w/rifle-sights. Speaks for itself! Cost me $125.00 plus $20 to Brownells for replacement bolt carrier. Someone had dumped it at a pawn shop after they couldn't get gun put back together after shooting it once or twice. Came with 28"bbl w/rem-chokes. Already had 18" and 20" bbls on hand. Loaded with 1oz slugs, 5 "000" buck-shot loads in elastic butt carrier on sling-swivel (NO STAPLES !!!!)
5. Remington m7 in .223. When I think I may be taking an extened stroll away from the vehicle and may want something that'll handle almost any situation. Has Leupold 2.5-8x Vari-X III, will shoot 5-shots to 1/2" at 100yds. "MIDGET VARMINT RIFLE !!!" Prefers Hornady 60gr S.Pt.s over H4198. Killed deer with neck shot while it faced me in '01. One shot, three entry and three exit wounds !!!! (neck, shoulder, ham !). DRT needless to say!
6. Ruger Security-6, 4" Stainless Steel. Police trade-in I bought for $125.00. Need I say more?! I do all my .357mag shooting with this gun. Essentially indestructable! Always rides between the passenger seat and transmission hump on my Jeep. Just as rough-n-tough as the vehicle! More dependable too!
ECT., Ect., ect.........................
Come to think of it, most all my guns are "TRUCK" guns.
Now, which one do I carry this week ?????????????????
July 21, 2004, 11:28 AM
I was going to ask about the 336 in .35 Rem. I had heard that the .35 was a pretty good round for brush. What is its optimal range?
July 21, 2004, 10:51 PM
Alvin, I've never had a 35 Rem. but my Speer manual says it's good for deer out to 150 yards. I do like Marlin lever actions. I've had an 1894 in 44mag that has served me well for short range duty. Good accuracy out to 100 yards with handloads.
July 21, 2004, 11:10 PM
If the only thing that's holding you up on the M44 rifles is ammo availability, then wait no more.
There's a good variety of 7.62x54R ammo on the market, and most of it is very reasonably priced.
July 22, 2004, 12:19 AM
Couple hundred bucks will get you a Saiga.
You can shoot all day long for very little money. Ammo is plentiful and available just about everywhere. You can get it in HP, SP and FMJ. Plus they are rugged and built on the AK action. A second quick follow up shot is a nice feature to have.
The M44 or M38 is also nice. If you do get one, I'd highly suggest buying a box of good non corrosive ammo just for truck use. Save the cheap corrosive stuff for range use. You don't want to have to take your rifle out and clean it just because you shot off a round, something you'd have to do with cheap corrosive ammo. Spend ten bucks on a box of good ammo.
With the 7.62 you can get 4 boxes of ammo for ten bucks! :D
July 22, 2004, 01:07 AM
My current POV truck gun(for the last year) is a MK 5 .303 british cut down into a nice sporter with a Lyman sight. The original Mk 5 prolly would be as good, but this one is lighter and so pretty. It rides in a Kolpin Atv case(lockable) with an extra load mag under the rear seat. I can pull it when I get out of truck and it being Kali and all , I keep the mags loaded with 8 rounds each and not attached to gun. I keep an extra box of the Federal high energy 180grain ammo it is sighted in for at 100yards.;)
July 22, 2004, 09:30 AM
RE: .35Rem effectiveness
Most credit the .35Rem with a 150yd effectiveness, but they are just parroting conventional wisdom.
If restricted to factory ammo, that would be a fairly accurate assessment, however, thats based on a 100yd sight in. If sighted in to be 2.5" high at 100yds, a 150yd zero results and a drop of around 5" at 200yds, making it easily a "point-blank" gun to 200yds.
Problem becomes range estimation.......... Is it 185yds or is it 250+ ??
I you reload, you can reclaim the old "express" loads of the '30's for the .35Rem.
The .35 is significantly down-loaded by most of the factories in deference to a lot of tired old autoloaders and pumps from the 1900-1930 era, and are probably unsafe even with the current factory loads of a 200gr bullet at ~1,900fps-2,000fps. When loaded to same pressure levels as most factory .30/30 ammo, it easily tops 2,200fps with 200gr bullets, and the BuffaloBore 220gr load is cataloged/chrono's at 2,200fps. These are very effective loads for any N.American game at under 200yds. (however I'd use my .338 for the Large Bears however).
I load my .35rem with either H4895, Imr3031, or BL-C2 over a Remington 200gr Cor-lokt Round Nose. I get 2,250 to 2,300fps and it is more effective on deer inside 150yds than the .30/06. I don't make this assessment lightly as I killed my first deer with an '06 in 1976. Over 500 to date now. About 40 with '06 and 50 with .35rem. The difference is a bigger hole. Both give excellent results, just a slight benefit to the .35. Easier tracking, usually no tracking!
Probably 98% of my deer have been shot at ranges under 200yds, so I've never felt "handicapped" with the .35.
For what its worth, either of them are "overkill" on deer anyhow. Most of the deer I've killed have been with .22 centerfires. And you know what? I've recovered fewer bullets from deer with them (a single Hornady 35gr. V-max from a .22Hornet: heart/lung shot, DRT too!) than I have with .30/06 or .35Rem.
So, the .35 will do!
Best thing about the .35's is the rifles they come in.
Same reason the .30/30 (.30wcf) is still with us today.
BTW; my second favorite "deer" gun is a .257Roberts. It has the trajectory of the .270 (with my handloads), and the punch of the .30/30, just spread out (extended) to over 300yds. (Dosen't exhibit as much "overkill" as the larger guns) All but one of the deer I've shot at over 200yds have been with the .257. (that one with the '06)
It'll do too!!!
However, since most of the deer I kill these days are "by-catch" from pig hunting, I now carry the "bigger guns" because the pigs can be a bit more difficult to put down. And, sometimes with the extra penetration, I get more than one with one shot!!! (Pigs run in herds of 5-25 in this area, ususally large family groups from a single sow).
The .35 is a "swamp-pig gun" " extrordinaire"!!! as shots are usually measured in feet, not yards, and the quick follow up shots and "fail-safe" reliability of the lever actions result in extra pork in the freezer.
July 22, 2004, 10:39 AM
Get two Mosin M44s, and a case of milspec ammo, and stash that under your seat. Ordering the M44s from Aztec, if you have a C&R, will cost you $116.90, shipped, for the rifles, and $71 and change for 800 rounds of Czech Silvertip mild steel core 147gr from AIM, also including shipping. That's less than $200 for two rifles and a years supply of ammo! Oh, yeah, unless you like recoil, get a good recoil pad.....
Why two? Why not? Arm a friend, or if one breaks, (Unlikely, darn things are incredibly tough, but, you never know), you're set!
As for soft point, J&G Sales in Prescott has Wolf 200gr soft point, 20 rounds for $4.50, or S&B 180 gr Soft Point for $9.50 for 20....
July 23, 2004, 12:58 AM
"Castin' a vote for a lever rifle"
gotta second the vote. I keep a .45 Colt levergun under the rear seat of my pickem' up.
Inexpensive, non-threatening...but those heavy Cor-Bon loads get up an go out of an 18" tube.
Not much good beyond 100 yards (least for me) but all kinds of smack down closer in.
July 23, 2004, 01:22 AM
My choice for a $145 truck gun
July 23, 2004, 02:17 AM
Another vote for a lever gun, pick your caliber. .30/30, .35 Remington, magnum revolver round, or even .45/70.
My own truck gun is a pre-Taurus Rossi M92 "Trapper" in .357. Weighs in at about 5 lbs, under a yard long, holds 8 rnds of Magnums (10 .38 Spls) and stows behind the seat with lots of room left over.
Sweet handling, slick working and surprisingly accurate. Five rounds of 145 gr. WW Silvertips will go into 7/8" at 50 yds using a Lyman 66A receiver sight. Soda cans and clay birds are no problem at 100.
July 23, 2004, 09:09 AM
I have a lever-action .357 Rossi. Its small, light-weight, and manuverable, but I wanted more.
Just had an old Swedish Mauser cut down to 20" barrell, recrowned, and iron sights re-installed. This was an old mixed parts number gun. I like this caliber (6.5x55) and wanted a reliable, short-barrreled rifle for manuverability that still retained umph to reach out and touch something with enough power to kill it, and not be to harsh on recoil. Will start next month on adjusting the sights.
As I already have this ammo in stock for several other rifles, don't have to carry another caliber of ammo.
This type of thing may not be for everyone, but it is one way to achieve a "carbine" with major caliber.
July 23, 2004, 11:30 AM
The deal about a Swede Mauser reminds me of a thought I've had. Once, I had a M38 Swede (Cavalry model- turned down bolt handle) in hand, but I didn't buy it because they had it overpriced and the wood and stock metal wasn't all there. My thought was to take and knock the rear sight off the barrel, install a Lyman #57, rework the front sight, and drop it in a new synthetic stock. Would have been pretty handy, I think.
July 23, 2004, 03:43 PM
I've used the infantry version of same (barrell same size but straight bolt with 100 meter sights) for deer hunting one year. Carried it on 2 mile hunting hikes thru woods and swamps. It's short enough to manuver ok thru all of that. What you proposed would have worked just fine.
July 25, 2004, 12:32 AM
SAR 1 7.62x39. cheap. Great truck gun for any occasion. although...
mine is a SAR 3 in .223 rem.
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