[Barbara]

http://www.mileg.org/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName=2004-HB-5797

06783'04 TVD HOUSE BILL No. 5797
Sec. 224. (1) A person shall not manufacture, sell, offer
2 for sale, or possess any of the following:
3 (a) A machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to
4 shoot automatically more than 1 shot without manual reloading, by
5 a single function of the trigger.
6 (b) A muffler or silencer.
7 (c) A bomb or bombshell.
8 (d) A blackjack, slungshot, billy, metallic knuckles, sand
9 club, sand bag, or bludgeon.
2
1 (e) A device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance
2 designed to render a person temporarily or permanently disabled
3 by the ejection, release, or emission of a gas or other
4 substance.
5 (f) Any sharp-edged, multibladed device, capable of being
6 carried on the person, with blades that are, or can be, locked
7 into place for use as a weapon.
8 (2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a
9 felony , punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years


This has been refered to the Committee on Criminal Justice. As far as I know, the legislature is out until fall, but please make sure each and everyone of our Senators know what a bad bill this is.

[GigaBuist]

Oh freaking wonderful. I was going to sleep well tonight until I saw this one.

First it's the switch blades and now it's a LEATHERMAN that they're after.

What's odd is the "multibladed" wording. Presumably my 3.25" single blade folder wouldn't be banned but a Leatherman multi-tool with 2-3 blades on it that can be locked would be. That's rather nonsensical.... but I don't expect much more out of our legislators these days.

Off for more research.

Update:

Errr.. this was submitted April 22nd and the legislature adjourned since then? Is there really that much to worry about?

Updated again:

This is only re-defining the existing list of knives that are "banned". My original take was wrong. By multi-bladed they are referring to a double-sided knife which (stupidly) has already been banned for a while as a fixed blade device. I don't even know of a folding double-sided knife out there let alone one that has a locking mechanism. Nobody even makes these things.

Granted the existing law is rather stupid, but it doesn't look like it's going anywhere (unless I'm way off) -- and it doesn't even address anything that on the marketplace that I'm aware of. How in the heck you fold down a knife that's double-sided is beyond me to boot.

[JeFF D]

"8 (d) A blackjack, slungshot , billy, metallic knuckles, sand
9 club, sand bag, or bludgeon."

So if a kid takes a Y shaped stick and puts a heavy rubber band on it he's guilty of a felony? :banghead:

[Third_Rail]

NO! Slungshot is a monkey's-fist knot in a piece of rope filled with one large piece of lead, also used to describe any bag/sock/holder for a quantity of lead shot.

It's not a typo for slingshot.

[hso]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306280 has a good "form letter" from the AKTI already developed and names and addresses for legislators that can be contacted to stop this idiotic thing.

Here's the letter for anyone that wants to send it.


Representative Virgil Smith

House Office Building No. 686

Lansing, MI 48909



RE: House Bill No. 5797

Senate Bill No. 1296



Dear XXXX



House Bill No. 5797 / Senate Bill No. 1296, recently introduced, would make it a felony for millions of people in Michigan who carry typical folding knives used everyday for performing our jobs, for routine tasks of daily living and for recreational activities. Your bill would make criminals of auto mechanics, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, sheet metal workers, truck drivers and virtually every union and non-union worker in the state, as well as recreational backpackers, bikers, campers, hikers, kayakers and every gardener in Michigan who uses a folding knife to prune the roses.

Many law-abiding people here in Michigan have for years routinely carried "a sharp-edged, multibladed device with blades capable of being locked into place. . . ." This description would include, for example, "Swiss Army knives," as well as the typical "multi-tool," which many people here in Michigan find almost indispensable, not to mention millions of tourists. In addition, the locking device on folding knives was designed to keep the blade safely inside the handle when closed and to protect users from having it close on their fingers until they want to close it.

The difference between a tool and a weapon is in the mind of the person who holds it. If there are people in Michigan who are misusing knives for criminal purposes, there are existing laws to deal with the situation.

I strongly urge you to withdraw this bill. I believe it would have a negative impact on responsible, law-abiding people in Michigan and expose many of us to potential criminal prosecution. It would also hinder many businesses. I believe that the legal and governmental resources of the State of Michigan should be more appropriately used to prosecute the few individuals who violate the law rather than attempting to interfere with millions of law-abiding citizens.



Very truly yours,



*

*

The Honorable Senator Alan Cropsey


Chairman Senate Judiciary Committee
Farnum Building #1005
Lansing MI 48909

Phone: (517) 373-3760


Fax: (517) 373-8661
Email: Jlazet@senate.michigan.gov (Alan's chief of staff John Lazet)
Email: SenACropsey@senate.michigan.gov
--------------------------------------------------------
The Honorabale Senator Samuel "Buzz" Thomas
Farnum Building #610
Lansing MI 48909

Phone: (517) 373-7918


Fax: (517) 373-5227
Email: SenBThomas@senate.michigan.gov

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Honorable Representative Virgil Smith


House Office Building #686
Lansing MI 48909

Phone: (517) 373-0589


Fax: (517) 373-6404
Email: virgilsmith@house.mi.gov

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Honorable Representative Morris Hood


House Office Building #690
Lansing MI 48909

Phone: (517) 373-3185


Fax: (517) 373-5986
Email: morrishood3rd@house.mi.gov

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Honorable Representative William Van Regenmorter


Chairman House Committee on Criminal Justice
House Office Building #1093
Lansing MI 48909

Phone: (517) 373-8900


Fax: (517) 373-8697
Email: wmvanreg@house.mi.gov

[Vermont Guy]

I'm pretty outraged by paragraph e.

That is mace or pepper spray they are going after. Why don't they just ban self-defense?

[deej]

Sec (d) says "sand bag." Not "sand bag intended for use as a weapon," but "sand bag."

Hate to be there when the rainy season rolls around...

[Barbara]

Gigabuist, there's not a lot of danger in the upcoming weeks, but quite a few people have gotten letters that make it appear that this is something that will come back up in the fall.

[GunGeek]

Forget all that, read this sentence very carefully:

(a) A machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than 1 shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.

IANAL but this sounds like trick wording, they add "A machine gun or" at the front and "by a single function of the trigger." at the end but take those away and you have described everything that isn't bolt action. And the way they used the word OR implyes that section is self standing. It all depends on the legal definition of reloading, but the dictionary definition is "to put more bullets in a gun" so read that sentance again and you have

(a) A machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than 1 shot without manualy putting more bullets in the gun, by a single function of the trigger.

It may not be what the lawmakers mean, but dosen't mean some anti won't argue it if the law gets passed.

[71Commander]

You mean like this?

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/tucker13/RIA-SW.jpg

[Ktulu]

GunGeek,

(a) A machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than 1 shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.

is already Michigan law and has been for a long time. The new bill seeks only to ammend the current law and add the bolded text in Barbara's original post. No one has tried, to my knowledge, to bastardize the wording, yet.

[GunGeek]

Hold on a sec while I kiss the ground here in Florida

[flatrock]

1 (e) A device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance
2 designed to render a person temporarily or permanently disabled
3 by the ejection, release, or emission of a gas or other
4 substance.

They're going to make it a felony to carry pepper spray? How are you supposed to defend yourself against someone intent on harming you? How are women going to protect themselves against rapists?

You people in Michigan need to make sure every woman's group and organization that works with battered women gets informed about this bill. Make sure everyone knows what they are trying to pass.

Let parents know their daugthers won't be allowed to protect themselves from rapists.

Let husbands know that their wives are going to loose their right to self defense.

Let people know that they are removing people's less lethal choices for dealing with an attacker.

If the police organizations support this ask them about their response times, and if they think they'd arrive in time to protect their wife or childern from being attacked.

These bills are insane. We need to expose the insanity and get the idiots proposing them out of office.

[Ktulu]

flatrock, again, that is already Michigan law and has been for a long time. The new bill seeks only to ammend the current law and add the bolded text in Barbara's original post.

FYI - To the best of my knowlegde - Pepper spray less than 2% OC is ok. Mace is illegal.

GunGeek, oh yeah well we get almost 3 months of overcast < 30*F weather. So, :neener:

[flatrock]

flatrock, again, that is already Michigan law and has been for a long time. The new bill seeks only to ammend the current law and add the bolded text in Barbara's original post.

Guess I should tell my wife to be careful when visiting friends in Michigan. I need to make sure her pepper spray is legal. If it's not she can leave it at home and carry her S&W 642, but that tool isn't always the right one for all situations.

[Barbara]

Actually, that's something I'd like to see changed with our carry law. Ours is specifically a CPL. Concealed Pistol License. We have no less-than-lethal options available to us and there's even some question as to whether or not we can carry more than one firearm.

[jefnvk]

Whats the current law on MI knives? I carry at least one from my assortment almost every day. And I do plan on leaving Michigan as soon as I'm done with college. Gotta be somewhere more gun friendly. But then again, maybe I shouldn;t study computers. Have a feeling I ma be in California quite ofte, and if I don't like MI...

[capt. Nemo]

The part Flat just highlighted is going to make it illegal for a couple of my friends to enter the state...depending on what they've recently consumed:what: .

[Barbara]

Preemption doesn't include knives, so it matters where you are. "Switchblades" are illegal all over, I think. In Dearborn, a lot of knives are banned.

Michigan overall isn't that bad. We need to get rid of the purchase permit registration scheme, but overall, the legislature is working on improvements.

[hso]

Barbara (and anyone else that cares),

It is a common myth that switchblades are illegal all over. :rolleyes:

Half the states allow posession and many allow carry.

The federal government couldn't ban them outright in the late '50s, but attempted to by restricting interstate commerce in them to LE/Military. (sort of like saying you can buy automatic firearms if and only if your LE/Military).

[Barbara]

I should have been more specific: All over the state. Other knives are banned by specific communities.

[hso]

Ahhh.

Yep, MI is an antiswichblade state and limits blade length on folding knives. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some local gov regs that limit folder blade length to less than 2.5 inches.

[Ktulu]

I should have been more specific: All over the state. Other knives are banned by specific communities.

To the best of my knowledge the prohibition on double-edged blades is statewide as well.