Got my CCW!-With a Catch


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FenderBender
July 20, 2004, 09:58 PM
Well today I finally got my CCW in the mail, but with a catch as I knew there would be. In Iowa the sheriff's can make you jump through all sorts of hoops to get a permit and in my county it is a monetary restriction. In order for my permit to be valid I have to carry at least 500 dollars in cash on my person at all times while I carry. For me to use my permit I will have to be saving up for a while. I find it kind of amusing that I will be carrying this money but I can never spend it. Anyone else know of anything similar to this kind of restriction? Good news is that it is the only restriction, but I just thought I would rant.

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sumpnz
July 20, 2004, 10:04 PM
That is just asinine. Could you post a link to the county website where it states that requirement, or scan your permit to show same (of course you should blot out any info you don't want public).

Not that I don't believe you, but some substantiation would make letters of outrage possible.

boofus
July 20, 2004, 10:10 PM
Can you just buy and wear a nice expensive gold watch or something instead? :D

FMarlon
July 20, 2004, 10:17 PM
Uhhhh, what county is this?

Considered a move to Polk county? Sheriff Anderson is great!!

FenderBender
July 20, 2004, 10:18 PM
sumpnz: There is no link that states this restriction, but it is well known in my county that this the only way to get a permit. When filling out the forms there is a reason box that you must fill in. If you put in there anything but "I often carry at least 500 dollars in cash on my person" the permit will get denied. Even the clerks at the court house will tell you that is the only thing to put in there if you want one. Self defense as a reason is a no no. I will try to scan it tomorrow as I do not have a scanner at home.

boofus: It has to be cash, not credit cards, not guns, not watches. I asked that very question and got told-cash only. Most people just take 5 100 dollar bills and wrap it around there permit and carry it like that.

FMarlon: Linn County

mec
July 20, 2004, 10:21 PM
during one period, the general prohibition to carrying a handgun in Texas had an exception for carrying large sums of money to a bank for "deposit proceding by a direct route and pausing only for casual conversation along the way. "

biere
July 20, 2004, 10:21 PM
Before ohio passed their moron ccw setup, having money on you was one good reason to illegally ccw. Well, not illegally. Before we got ccw laws passed you were arrested and sent before a judge or someone who decided if you had reason to ccw.

Having the cash comes from the concept that people who run a small business by themselves always have lots of cash on them and there fore they become a target.

A pizza delivery guy proved he had reason to ccw because he had some cash on him and he wound up shooting someone who had him deliver a pizza to what was supposed to be a hold up.

Anyway, I don't agree with it but I know why the gov. wants that hoop hopped through before you are legal.

Overall I get mad at anything beyond what vermont and alaska now have after the courts decided that the previous ways were unconstitutional.

Actually I just get mad at most of this stuff. I will stop now.

sumpnz
July 20, 2004, 10:29 PM
When filling out the forms there is a reason box that you must fill in. If you put in there anything but "I often carry at least 500 dollars in cash on my person" the permit will get denied. And what if you just define "often carry" to once a decade? You're bound at some point over a 10 year period to have $500 on you. Then if you get stopped and don't have the money on you just claim that "often" didn't happen to include that moment in time.

Or does the sherrif insist that you actually have that money on your person whenever you CCW. If that's the case, I should think that a possible lawsuit claiming unfair taxation/economic hardship/etc might be a possible way to get that struck down.

FMarlon
July 20, 2004, 10:32 PM
maybe it's for bg bait?---not a good idea in my opinion.

Or maybe to get your lawyer on site fast?--better.

OR maybe if you use it for self defense, then when you are arrested, the 500 will magically disappear from your personal belongings?--sounds more plausible to me.

With apologies to all morally straight LEO's:(

FenderBender
July 20, 2004, 10:35 PM
That is what you fill on the form, but it is stated on the permit as.

RESTRICTIONS:
VALID ONLY WHEN CARRYING AMT STATED $500 MIN

Whether you carry $500 often or never, in order for the permit to be valid you have to have the money on you everytime you carry.

DMK
July 20, 2004, 10:39 PM
1) I agree with sumpnz "I often carry at least 500 dollars in cash on my person" does not equal "I always carry at least 500 dollars in cash on my person". That's a loophole big enough to drive a Mack truck though. I don't see how it's prosecutable in court.

2) That's discrimination against the poor. Obviously, you don't like in a shall issue state, but I'd think the intent of the law is to deny a CCW to those who the Sheriff thinks may commit a crime, not those who can't afford to apply. I'd inform your representatives and your governor about this.

EDIT: I posted before seeing the actual restriction on the licence. Man, that's an outrage. Another case of the haves and the have nots. :fire:

Maybe you should try getting an out of state CCL that's valid in your state?

FMarlon
July 20, 2004, 10:39 PM
I am sorry that you have the misfortune to live in a restrictive county, but hey, at least it's not Kommiefornia:D

Rebeldon
July 20, 2004, 10:43 PM
Move to another county. If you have a business, move it too. And don't even spend money in the offending county. Tell the county leaders why, and encourage others to follow your lead.

Or just vote their butts out!

sm
July 20, 2004, 10:53 PM
This is nuts!

If the database should fall into wrong hands...how handy, besides the CCW - meaning guns to BGs, we can add cash on person...how convienent.

So when this Shreriff of Bling Bling County comes up for re-election, maybe in order to "vote" for him he needs to "qualify" that vote with a $1k cash payment to the voter. Wait that is illegal...or is the Elite exempt from crime?

When is this wonderful person up for re-election? A Pro CCW Sheriff could wipe this guys eye it sounds.

Doc
July 20, 2004, 11:19 PM
will they take a check?:neener:

deej
July 20, 2004, 11:50 PM
Heh, it doesn't say "$500 CASH", now does it? So a check, made payable to your grandma, or maybe the GOA...

rayra
July 21, 2004, 12:22 AM
FMarlon

I am sorry that you have the misfortune to live in a restrictive county, but hey, at least it's not Kommiefornia
Thanks so very much for your support. Really.

Standing Wolf
July 21, 2004, 12:25 AM
Apparently, your life is worth less than $500 in your part of Iowa. Reassuring, isn't it?

Rimmer
July 21, 2004, 12:37 AM
So your Sheriff wants every BG in the area to know that if he robs someone and they pull a gun in self-defense he can rest assured his intended victim is good for at least $500.

jhisaac1
July 21, 2004, 12:47 AM
Most people just take 5 100 dollar bills and wrap it around there permit and carry it like that.

Just be careful handing your license and permit to the officer who stops you for speeding. It might be mis-interpreted.

FenderBender
July 21, 2004, 12:57 AM
Thanks for all the replys, good thing I will be moving out of this county in a short time. Every 6 months the city newspaper(very liberal) prints all the CCW holders names in the county and once a year in January they print all the holders in the state. I guess that information is public knowledge. It makes the front page and it goes something like this "Do you know that your neighbor might be carrying a gun?" So rest assured criminals know who has $500 on them. It will be good to move to another county, and then next step will be out of Iowa.

Josey
July 21, 2004, 02:49 AM
Thinking out loud here. Would the ACLU or NAACP take this as disparaging to poor minorities? What about a ADA beef? The handicapped often do NOT have $500.00. I would start looking for a pro bono lawyer to file a class action suit. Discrimination, Jim Crow law, unethical and it seems racist to my mind. The rich live and the poor die.

stealthmode
July 21, 2004, 04:23 AM
does it have to be cash??
your atm card is worth more than 500 if you got more than 500 in bank. travelers checks.

Freedomv
July 21, 2004, 04:51 AM
I beleive that you may challenge the shireff of your county with being discriminate.

My wife and I both have carry permits-for self pertection. I have had mine for 30 sum odd years but my wife has not had hers very long, a couple of years. The reason she needed her permit was because we had done some serious damage to some drug dealers income. ie Say no more.

We have a good sherriff and he was concerned weather or not she might be into doing some retaliation to a BG. Her answer was basicly "If he comes looking for it."

To bad all of Iowa's counties do not have the best of Sherriffs.

I had never heard of $500 option and I think that it should be challenged.

Vern

I have found that it is necessary to explore the limits of what a county and its officials can do. Look under Iowa Laws or codes. concerning Counties.
I have read / researched them a number of times concerning limitations etc.
Chapter 335 if memory serves me correctly This isn't it. Check this web site out. Good luck!

http://www.legis.state.ia.us/IACODE/2003SUPPLEMENT/331/301.html

jojosdad
July 21, 2004, 08:08 AM
I apologize as this is off topic but I'm REALLY tired of S- -T like this: I am sorry that you have the misfortune to live in a restrictive county, but hey, at least it's not Kommiefornia
I live in California, I'M NOT A COMMIE, AND I CCW. You won't read anything from me putting down a WHOLE state because of some (well maybe a lot of) stupid laws. We're still part of the USA and some of us are trying to change things. Stereotyping never helps anything, nor is it a part of The High Road that we're all trying to walk.

spartacus2002
July 21, 2004, 08:56 AM
I believe the "Kommiefornia" comment was directed toward the restrictive laws, not to the residents. The "People's Republic of **********" and "Kommiefornia" and other such terms have been used ever since I joined THR, and common accepted usage is that it does NOT refer to fellow gunowners like you.

So, we get your point, but relax, please.

IAJack
July 21, 2004, 09:05 AM
So how about this,

My permit states as restrictions..."Invalid in vehicle" & "Invalid in Incorporated city limits"!

How is that for the sheriff being an absolute ass!

If he didn't issue at all I might have a little room to sue for unequal protection. As it is now I am paying for a useless piece of paper. I suppose if something were to happen to me I might have pretty good grounds?

I asked our sheriff one time why he doesn't issue useable permits. Get this..He said he doesn't want his deputies pulling over a car with a gun in it! OK I don't need to explain the stupidity of that one here. Also in Iowa permits are valid state wide. So a person with a permit from another county can carry here in mine, but I can't

On the good side the current sheriff is retriring, I have started a gun-owners PAC as well as we have a great candidate running whom will issue and we won the primary by a good margin..so hopefully things will soon change.

Also a shameless plug, but we are running a very grassroots campaign on our own money. If anyone wanted to visit www.rickphillipsforsheriff.com and then send in a small donation -say $5 even if not from here it would go a long ways. I have been fighting this for 10 yrs now.

ScottsGT
July 21, 2004, 09:31 AM
Iowa Gun owners need to form a Grassroots orginazation to fight stupidity and descrimination loopholes such as these. The SC Grassroots orginazation has done a lot to reform our gun laws here. There is one last BIG hurdle, and that is the right to carry in "nice restaurants", or restaurants that sell alcohol. In SC, we don't have "bars", each and very establishment that sells alcohol ( I think it is just hard liquor) has to serve food as a main item.
I Iowa a Shall Issue state or May issue state?

halvey
July 21, 2004, 10:10 AM
I had never heard of $500 option and I think that it should be challenged. This is a very common restriction in may issue states. You have a prove a need, so if you say you carry cash, the sheriff will say, ok, when you carry cash you can carry a gun.

I don't agree with it, but it's not uncommon.

Black Snowman
July 21, 2004, 10:31 AM
It doesn't say US dollars. Find one of the various other nations that use "dollars" as a currency and has a really good exchange rate. You might be able to get $500 in "Elbonian" dollars or some such for like $5.

If they can exploit loopholes, so can you :D

LynnMassGuy
July 21, 2004, 10:42 AM
They don't even do that in MA!! :neener:

Tinker
July 21, 2004, 11:19 AM
Fender,

"..... in January they print all the holders in the state..."

Sounds like they (Sherriff + local newspapers) are using CCW holders as chum for criminals.

Bad guy think: "All I have to do is sneak up and get the drop on one of the CCW holders and I got a gun and 500 bucks!"

Black Snowman
July 21, 2004, 11:41 AM
"..... in January they print all the holders in the state..." Sounds like they (Sherriff + local newspapers) are using CCW holders as chum for criminals. Bad guy think: "All I have to do is sneak up and get the drop on one of the CCW holders and I got a gun and 500 bucks!"

Look into starting a class action suit for wreckless endangerment of the public. Convieniently he's published everyone who can participate for you. "Protect and Serve" my butt.

Gunrunner
July 21, 2004, 11:55 AM
I sure don't like the idea of having to carry $500 all the time.

In my county the only thing the sheriff has wanted to see put on the application is TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW .

In recent times the permit process has been taken over by the state. It used to be a holder could list as many handguns as he wanted on his/her permit. The state decided you can only list 3.

The only other restrictions are sensible ones, such as not carrying into bars, schools, jails, courthouses. Sensible enough.

Overall I'm satisfied with the CCW situation here, and am glad I can have one. With all the other assinine laws this state has I'm surprised they haven't banned them altogether.

And our names sure as hell aren't put in the newspapers!!! Now that's assinine!

Gordon Fink
July 21, 2004, 12:15 PM
I wonder if I could use this as “good cause” on a California CCW-permit application. I think keeping $500 on my person would be a small price to “pay” for the privilege of having a get-out-of-jail-free card. Besides, cash-and-carry is the way to go, right?

~G. Fink

aguyindallas
July 21, 2004, 02:42 PM
How about having a friend of yours make a check out to you for $500.00 and keep it in your wallet....wonder if that would fly?

Dbl0Kevin
July 21, 2004, 04:51 PM
The only other restrictions are sensible ones, such as not carrying into bars, schools, jails, courthouses. Sensible enough.

So you support having defenseless schools with no responsible person around able to defend the children? Oh that's right......no one would EVER think to shoot up a school. Also bars do serve food don't they? Not everyone who goes into a bar does so to drink and get drunk....there are designated drivers.

birdv
July 21, 2004, 05:00 PM
Ouch.
I am glad I live in Texas.

sturmruger
July 21, 2004, 05:55 PM
FenderBender I used to live in Wapello County. The sheriff down there set the dollar amount at $2K!! Needless to say I didn't walk around with that kind of money. The good news was when they do issue the permits in Wapello they don't fill them out properly. There is a section on the permit for "restrictions" Wapello fills this section in with "Not valid while using drugs or alcohol" Under the section "justification for issuance" They list “while carrying $2000 or more.” In my mind I had a nice little loophole that I could exploit. I suppose it could have landed me in trouble, but since it was never an issue I would do it again. What I am saying is make sure your county is filling out the permit properly. If they are not then maybe you can skate on a loophole like I did.

Gunrunner
July 21, 2004, 08:03 PM
Dbl0Kevin, Ya got me there for sure. I don't like any restrictions on my gun ownership or carrying practices.

Vitamin G
July 21, 2004, 08:08 PM
Get some of those show-off clear acrylic grips, and have $500 molded in the middle of one of them ;)

MeekandMild
July 21, 2004, 08:40 PM
How about rolling up the bills and putting them in the empty chamber under the hammer of your revolver? Wasn't that what the old cowboys used to do that so they would have burial money if they were killed while driving the herd?

If a mugger tells you to give them all your money you'd be able to keep a straight face when you fish it out of your pocket. :D

cerberus
July 21, 2004, 09:23 PM
Another good reason to never set foot in Iowa . Can you guess the first?

IAJack
July 21, 2004, 10:55 PM
1) Methodists
3)Meth Makers

71Commander
July 22, 2004, 06:02 AM
I had never heard of $500 option and I think that it should be challenged.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a very common restriction in may issue states. You have a prove a need, so if you say you carry cash, the sheriff will say, ok, when you carry cash you can carry a gun.

I don't agree with it, but it's not uncommon.


Let's say you're a business owner and this is a real need, how do you go to the bank? Deposit everything but 500.00.:confused:

Scottmkiv
July 22, 2004, 11:52 AM
Well clearly you are supposed to unload and lock your gun in the trunk when you get to the bank. Why would you need to protect yourself on the way back? :uhoh:

cablebandit
July 22, 2004, 03:41 PM
Just carry $500.00 Canadian. that can't be more than $13.72 American.:D

waynzwld
July 22, 2004, 04:21 PM
Get $500 in Hong Kong dollars, that is about $80 American.

JohnBT
July 22, 2004, 05:56 PM
So carry the $500. You never know when you'll run across a great deal on a used gun. ;)

John

FenderBender
July 22, 2004, 06:52 PM
How would I be able to buy the gun if I am suppose to always carry the $500? It basically has to be money I would never spend, money that could be in the bank making lousy interest.

I asked and it has to be 500 American dollars, no checks, no credit cards.

Black Snowman
July 22, 2004, 06:57 PM
You can buy the gun because you WERE carrying $500. If you have the reciept that you just spent the money then you can prove you had it. So, the money is still usable because you have a paper trail to back you up.

It's still all hatefull BS. :barf:

mrapathy2000
July 23, 2004, 03:21 AM
it beats illinois.

also beats getting stuck with a county that will not issue at all.
with missouri,minnesota,south dakota having ccw things can only improve. especially if nebraska,kansas and wisconsin get ccw in the future.

Freedomv
July 23, 2004, 11:23 AM
Just a thought---------- Your sheriff and others who state that you must carry X amount of cash are obviously saying that that is all a human life (yours) is worth.

If you don't have that kind of money on your person you don't need a permit for self protection therefore you must be protecting the money not you self.

I still think that the sheriff needes to be challenged in a court of law.
My $.02 worth.
Vern

mainmech48
July 23, 2004, 12:52 PM
While I suppose that it could misconstrued as an "apples and oranges" argument, I don't see how this is any different than imposing a poll tax or making property ownership mandatory in order to vote.

It's still arbitrarily placing an economic "qualifier" as a restriction to the exercise of a right that is recognized by both state statute and the U.S. Constitution.

Robbery is far from being the only motive for armed assault. And if $500, or $2000 is the minimum threshold, in the Sheriff's opinion, for "reasonable fear" of being victimized why are so many folks being mugged for so much less? While we're on the subject since the daily limit on ATM transactions from a checking account is $500 or less for very nearly everyone that I know, and most of them make withdrawals in increments of $100 or less, why are they such popular hunting grounds for the social hyenas?

Discretion is a good thing, given good judgement. Allowing elected officials to in essence dictate the terms under which they will comply with law on that basis is not.

mrapathy2000
July 23, 2004, 04:23 PM
iowa is not california or some of those other states yet.
but it is scary.

specially when one reads the constitution. though this state has no RKBA 2nd ammendment type statement. we do have militia defined. we could be in worse situation.

Iowa Constition:
http://www.legis.state.ia.us/Constitution.html

ARTICLE I.
BILL OF RIGHTS.

Rights of persons. SECTION 1. All men and women are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inalienable rights--among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

Laws uniform. SEC. 6. All laws of a general nature shall have a uniform operation; the general assembly shall not grant to any citizen, or class of citizens, privileges or immunities, which, upon the same terms shall not equally belong to all citizens.

http://www.state.ia.us/government/dps/iowacode/cd99724.htm

I just dont see how iowa's ccw and authority to possess offensive weapons laws are legal. probably more. doubt we can do anything with Dem in Governor office. next election 2006.

Iowa also prohibits limo and taxi drivers from carrying despite the fact theyre job is 5th/6th worst in the country in lethality. pizza drivers have been talked bout recently here on THR they are part of the same group.

each state like a different country.

gunsmith
July 23, 2004, 11:19 PM
Thanks for all the replys, good thing I will be moving out of this county in a short time. Every 6 months the city newspaper(very liberal) prints all the CCW holders names in the county and once a year in January they print all the holders in the state. I guess that information is public knowledge. It makes the front page and it goes something like this "Do you know that your neighbor might be carrying a gun?" So rest assured criminals know who has $500 on them. It will be good to move to another county, and then next step will be out of Iowa.

There are folks here at THR and other gun forums who can find the home phone number of the newspaper owner who wants to help thugs find guns to steal.

Please name the offending newspaper...I don't know how they find the #'s but I have called the Ohio editor and sheriff who released OH CCW names,and have made lots of fun calls to various anal retentive jerks around the country (flat phone fee=fun)...

Together we can get a new Sheriff (and if you put his number here I can call him and tell him his fee is idiotic) and get that paper to lay off,they hate having THEIR OWN info becoming public to every gunnie on the internet!

FenderBender
July 24, 2004, 03:25 AM
Cedar Rapids Gazette

http://www.gazetteonline.com/

Linn County Sheriff

http://www.co.linn.ia.us/officials/sheriff.html

racenutz
July 29, 2004, 06:32 AM
Congratulations FenderBender!!! In this county it's quite the accomplishment to even get your permit. BTW, How'd you do on the shooting test?

Iowa also prohibits limo and taxi drivers from carrying despite the fact theyre job is 5th/6th worst in the country in lethality. pizza drivers have been talked bout recently here on THR they are part of the same group.

Chilling fact is a pizza delivery driver was murdered with a butcher knife in Linn County a couple of years ago. From the courtroom testimony it sounded like a situation that would have easily averted if had the driver been carrying.

mrapathy2000
July 29, 2004, 07:42 AM
yes I know marion pizza hut employee. skull bashed in with hammer then throat slit. all in plot to steal his pos car which broke down before the thieving murderers could get far.

will never forget that.

was a post not long ago on pizza hut employee who was getting robbed and unloaded on the robber. got fired cause company policy is no carried weapons. atleast the man is alive.

was discussion on that and indiana pizza delivery workers.

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