Texas statistic citation needed


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Treylis
July 22, 2004, 12:43 PM
I'm in an argument with someone and I pointed out that Texas CHL holders commit violent crimes less than the police--at either 2/3rds or 1/3rd the rate, can't exactly recall. Searched through the forum, can't seem to find a citation for this. Can someone please provide it?

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TheEgg
July 22, 2004, 01:01 PM
Afraid I can't help you with everything, but here are the statistics that are published on the DPS website -- maybe they can get you started.

www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm

FPrice
July 22, 2004, 01:09 PM
You may also want to try the Texas State Rifle Association (TSRA) at:

http://www.tsra.com

They should be of some help.

Treylis
July 22, 2004, 02:53 PM
Afraid I can't help you with everything, but here are the statistics that are published on the DPS website -- maybe they can get you started.

www.txdps.state.tx.us/administratio...l/convrates.htm

Hmm, thanks, that's interesting but I can't seem to find conviction rates for police officers there.

You may also want to try the Texas State Rifle Association (TSRA) at:

http://www.tsra.com

They should be of some help.

I'll look into that and see if I can find anything, I'm just about to take off.

I really hope this doesn't turn out to be a bogus statistic, it's a great counter to the whole "only police and the military should be trusted with guns" shtick. Please help if you can, folks--I'm going to look like a moron if I can't cite that stat, heh.

Treylis
July 22, 2004, 08:31 PM
Bump.

Art Eatman
July 22, 2004, 09:08 PM
I've only seen one comparison for non-LEOs vs. LEOs: Where there was a legitimate self-defense need to shoot and non-combatant bystanders were shot, it was 3 by non-LEOs and 30 by LEOs. I don't know how factual this is; it's allegedly a nation-wide factoid.

Art

Tharg
July 23, 2004, 06:01 AM
Heard that "fact" recently too - in reguard to Texas....

don't know the source. =(

mec
July 23, 2004, 07:55 AM
I've heard it about New York. Doesn't necessarily reflect badly on the police- their jobs make them go looking for trouble -possibly with more opportunities to hit bystanders.

Treylis
July 23, 2004, 08:01 AM
I've only seen one comparison for non-LEOs vs. LEOs: Where there was a legitimate self-defense need to shoot and non-combatant bystanders were shot, it was 3 by non-LEOs and 30 by LEOs. I don't know how factual this is; it's allegedly a nation-wide factoid.

I heard that as 11% of the time LEOs shoot someone, they shoot the wrong person, hah. Also roughly a 20% miss rate on top of that.

Doc
July 23, 2004, 10:08 PM
there was sig file here on thehighroad to which i think you may be referring:


In Texas, a concealed-handgun license holder is seven times
less likely than the general population
(and three times less likely than a police officer)
to commit a violent crime.


i just don't know who had it in their sig file

doc

tyme
July 23, 2004, 10:56 PM
It's jsalcedo.

Tharg
July 24, 2004, 03:58 AM
Hmmmm now that you mention it - thats prolly where i read it (the sig file)

Sad part is that very sig or stat or wherever it came from is actually one of those twists we don't like vs. a twist we do.

As someone stated above... who is MUCH more likely to get into an armed confrontation... LEO's or Non-LEO's?

Too easy to spin that one into a "good thing to say / lookit this stat" thing :(

Many and *wishfully* ALL CHL holders would never find themselves in a position to use thier concealed weapon. The cops on the other hand are dispatched/sent/find places where it very well might come into play on a day to day basis. (heh - least if they are doing thier jobs.... :) )

Makes it a twisted stat....

J/Tharg!

EDIT - then again - it said "To commit a violent crime" - not necessarily in the description of a cop's duties... commiting violent crimes that is. Hopefully this stat isn't including accidental shootings and the like - where the officer may very well get prosecuted and what not... not what i'd call a "violent crime" - more like a violent accident that they didn't mean to happen, but sometimes the law doesn't look at it that way. Now if it meant that there are cops who shoot thier wives-husbands/break and enter/etc etc etc... and commit violent crimes ok - otherwise this stat is still misleading...

Monkeyleg
July 24, 2004, 06:14 PM
In 1994, the Washington Post ran an editorial about the alarming arrest rate of DC police officers. It compared the percentage of DC officers arrested to the arrest rates for other departments, including NYC, Detroit and, IIRC, St. Louis. The average percentage was around 2%.

I've tried in vain to find national statistics, but it seems that internal affairs departments don't often make arrest data public.

Anecdotally, Milwaukee has a department with roughly 2,000 officers. There's been about a dozen arrested this year for a variety of crimes, so at year's end the percentage will be in that 1-2% area.

Tharg
July 25, 2004, 02:04 AM
I've read an article tho about how LEO's aren't protected against accidental shooting of bystanders etc etc... mistakes in the field (that soda can and the old guy thread comes to mind) etc etc.

From the bits i've read it was about how thier employment is cut (they get fired) then the DA comes around and charges em w/ crimes. (I so wish i remember where i read this so i could refresh my memory)

In those cases - they could be used as "LEO's" commiting violent crimes. Sometimes i think it would be cool to try to get into an academy and become and LEO... other times i think - no way - too much wiggle room to find myself in a sling.

best to stick w/ working on computers... least if ya blow it up ya only get a tsk tsk from yer employer usually... ehhe

J/Tharg!

Treylis
July 26, 2004, 08:34 PM
Bump again.

Treylis
July 29, 2004, 04:29 AM
Final bump.

jsalcedo
July 29, 2004, 02:53 PM
The original info came from statistics posted in a article some months back relating to the Missouri CCW fight.

Unfortunately I can't find it again and an exhaustive search on google and turned up nothing.

In the meantime I'm changing my tagline until the original cite can be verified.

If someone runs across the stats again please send me a PM.

Thanks

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