[NORM]

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47961

[Master Blaster]

Here is the story from the link posted:

Absolutely sickening, He would have been better off if he had not called the police to report this incident, or if he had waited till the Gang bangers shot at him first.


Hello, I'm back, and theres a lesson in where I have been..Gun owners please read.
What a year, and how life can turn on you. As some of you know, I was a police officer for 16 years. I was highly decorated, and never once was reprimanded for anything. I never fired my weapon, and never owned any guns, even as a cop. I do not hunt, and would not consider myself a gun enthusiast. However, I understand all points of view, and do believe a weapon is necessary for protection, as do most all cops. Following my career as a police officer, I went to work for the company that was awarded the contract for rebuilding Iraq. I won't mention their name, but their the worlds largest engineering & construction company, based in San Francisco. I was the armed "security specialist" for the CEO & Board of Directors. I am SWAT trained, medically trained, and counter terrorist trained. But my story has nothing to do with the above..This could of happened to any of you..

On July 4th weekend of 2003, (last year) I went to visit my son at college in San Luis Obispo, Ca. Following a weekend there, I returned home via US 101, thru Salinas, CA..Unbeknownst to me, Salinas has a very bad gang problem, averaging a murder a week. I was in moderately heavy traffic when a small car tried using the shoulder of 101 to pass. I didn't see him until he was next to my passanger door. I heard a "bang" that startled me. I couldn't see who was in the car, as they were below the passanger door. I moved away from the car, and it pulled in front of me. In doing so, he caught my brushguard with his rear bumper. He spun himself out in front of me, now facing me. I saw three individuals get out of the car, all dressed in black with hooded sweatshirts. They pulled their hoods up, and pulled their hands into the sleeves of their sweatshirts, and pointed at my truck like they had weapons. I ducked behind my door, and reached for my 9mm on the floor. I was waiting for the bullets to come thru the door, then realized I couldn't see what they were doing. So I peered around the door, and saw the three walking toward me in a crouch. I stepped out and fired one round over their heads, into an adjacent hillside. Realizing I was armed, the three ran away. I waited for the police to arrive.

When they did, I told the investigating officer what had happened. We found a dent on the side of my truck that was the "bang" I had heard. The car had no plates, and the police thought it might be stolen. They said this "happens all the time down here..." The investigating officer never once wrote down anything I said, nor did he record it. This would prove to be a major downfall for me. As all cops know, when involved in a shooting of any kind, you only speak to the investigating officer. This too, would come back to haunt me.

Three weeks later, I called the officer to see if they had found the three involved persons. I was told they had not. I did not hear from them until November, when I was informed that I was being charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

At trial in December, the police said it took them 6 weeks to find the driver, an illegal alien gang member from the Salinas area. He told a story of how I "terrorized" him and his two companions. When the police asked him who his companions were, he refused to identify them, and said they had returned to Mexico. The police believed his story, never once questioning why he never came forward, or called them to say what happened. Most shocking, they never made him identify his companions who pointed what I believed to be a weapon at me. The officer who I gave my statement to was fired in the meantime, and was never called to testify. His place was taken by a hispanic Sgt, whom I didn't get along with, nor did I tell what had occurred. This too would prove bad for me, as he testified that I had given my statement to him. Some cops can make you guilty if they so desire. I learned that much.

One of the several witnesses told the court that the passangers pointed what looked like a gun to her, towards me in the truck. This would confirm what I said. Other witnesses said that the car was driving recklessly, and passing on the shoulder. Not one said that I had done anything wrong.

In the end, a jury found me not guilty of assault with a deadly weapon and reckless driving. But either being confused by the system or figuring since I was charged, I had to be guilty of something, they convicted me of negligently discharging a firearm. They were not allowed to consider a defense of self defense. This is a misdemeanor in most cases, unless someone is injured or property is damaged. Neither was the case here. I hit the hillside. The bullet was never found. I was charged with the felony section, presumably because I was a ex cop. At sentencing, the judge threw the book at me, gave me 90 days in jail, and three years probation. That isn't the worst. I lost my job of course, all my licenses & weapons permits, and I can never own or be near a gun. Nor can I work in my former career field.

While in jail, the police all knew what had happened, and most were sympathetic. I recieved an anonymous note from one that said the Sgt knew someone who knew me, from my past as a police officer. This Sgt apparently was told to "hang me" by this person, according to the note. I gave it to the internal affairs dept, but I don't expect anything to come of it.

Besides the cost to my career & reputation, it cost me 12,000 for an attorney, and the loss of my job. I'm slowly putting it behind me, and trying to put my life back on track. I relocated to Idaho, near Boise, in a little village called "Eagle". I really like it here, and I'm glad to be back.

So my lesson is...even when you're 100% in the right, things can go 100% wrong. People from your past can come back to haunt you. There is a political faction afoot in certain areas of California that consider some to be a protected species. In post Rodney King California, anyone who fits the catagory of protecting yourself will pay the price for doing so. All of the above info is in the court records in Monterey County, Ca..This is a true story..

TOP, if you feel this story is inappropriate, feel free to delete it. I just wanted to share the experience

[Zundfolge]

Well according to Standing Wolf, the only thing to miss about the PRK is the weather :p


If they will do this to "one of their own" (former LEO) then they would surely do the same to any one of us (unless you're a criminal and an illegal alien ... then you get treated like a citizen). :banghead:

[Edward429451]

Awhile back in one of those what if scenario threads I said something to the effect that if I had to defend myself that I may just call it a day and go home with out calling in the po po and you all pretty much roasted me for it.

If you did nothing wrong you have nothing to fear or hide, you said.
It'll make you look guilty, you said.
The police are here to help, you said.

:rolleyes:

What say ye about this one WA? What should he have done?

Sounds like this guy did everything right to me (cept maybe calling the police).

And yet, we're not in a police state.

This Sgt apparently was told to "hang me" by this person, according to the note.

Think this was literal or figurative?:uhoh:

[Pilgrim]

Looks like he spent $12,000 for an incompetent attorney.

Sure would have been nice if a few more specifics were included so this story could be verified.

Pilgrim

[joab]

Noting the fact that this is only one side of the story
It's scary because it's beliveable

[whm1974]

I'm wondering if he can get an apeal?

-Bill

[HankB]

The investigating officer never once wrote down anything I said, nor did he record it. Officer never wrote down ANYTHING? So no report, right? The car had no plates, and the police thought it might be stolen. No plates, so no idea of who the car belongs to, right? the police said it took them 6 weeks to find the driver, an illegal alien gang member So they find some illegal alien gang member, TIE HIM TO THE UNIDENTIFIED CAR involved in the incident six weeks earlier, and convict the truck driver on his testimony? The officer who I gave my statement to was fired in the meantime, and was never called to testify. So if the guy never wrote anything down and never testified, the information came from . . . where? Just some illegal that they found six weeks later and tied to an unidentified car?

And there were witnesses who saw what happened? Where did they come from?

There's a strong odor of fish here . . . :rolleyes:

[R.H. Lee]

I happen to live in the general area he's talking about. The story is plausible, but has lots of unanwered questions. A case # or something that could lead to a reading of the court transcript would be helpful. I don't even know if there are enough details in the narrative to do a news search.

[Dbl0Kevin]

I agree with Hank. That story sent up all kinds of red flags in my mind. Mainly there is NO WAY that any officer is not going to make a report on a call involving shots fired on the middle of a highway, not to mention a hit and run, stolen vehicle, and possible assault with a DW. Though if for some strange reason that IS true then it's no wonder to me why the officer was fired. However, why wouldn't this guy's attorney call the former officer to testify. He didn't have to be called by the prosecution...it's the defense's obligation to call witnesses that support it's own case.

Also this is why I advocate not letting the offenders leave in a case like this.....especially when the guy was a former police officer and knows arrest procedures. Secondly he should not have fired a "warning shot" over their heads into the hills. If he saw a weapon in thier hands and was sure of it you fire AT the aggressors....not OVER them. If he did NOT see a weapon then you have no reason to discharge your own until you are sufficiently in danger. And no 3 people walking towards you with their hands in their sleeves in the middle of a highway doesn't count until they do something else.

[GunGeek]

There's a strong odor of fish here . . .

Thats the whole California political system that has that smell. I thought the story sounded funny too till I saw it was in california..... I've lived there, face it the state is a waste. Either we need a big earthquake to make it slide into the ocean, or let the Demecrates make it into thier version of the perfect world, then when all the Dems move in we vote to trade it to mexico for some jumping beans or other little trinkets, let them live in that nightmare of a state.

Sorry to those of you who live in Cali and are fighting the fight, but I said screw it. Read the tactics section of this forum, tons of posts about not being outgunned, and retreating when you can..... well I aplied those tactics to California and retreated all the way across the US to Florida. You couldn't pay me enough to move back.

[Master Blaster]

My guess on further reflection is that the retired officer being helpful to his own "Boys in Blue", never having been on the other side, confessed by giving a detailed statement. Firing a warning shot in the air is what they hosed him for. Tactically it was a bad move, suppose los vatos had pulled guns and ventilated him in reply, or suppose he hit a 26 year old soccor mom in a van full of kids and they all got killed in a flaming accident caused by his warning shot????????

Oh well.:rolleyes:

[TooTaxed]

Twice, while living in **********, I avoided two potential assaults by just showing a handgun. Due to a fear of being ill-treated by the police, I reported neither.

[R.H. Lee]

Twice, while living in **********, I avoided two potential assaults by just showing a handgun.

This probably happens all the time all over the country.

I have heard of attacks being thwarted by the victim showing the cover of Guns & Ammo magazine-brandishing a gun rag, as it were.

[FedDC]

Two Words- BS! And you know why? He says he was a cop for 16 years and NEVER got a single complaint... I haven't been on the job nearly that long and I have that beat by a long shot. I had my first complaint at the 4 month mark and I don't Patrol... No way was he SWAT, 16 years on etc and never got a complaint. There is a LOT more to this story. Plus, nobody and I mean NOBODY that I have ever worked with would be such a retard as to not file a report on a discharge of a firearm in public.

[jnojr]

Keeping in mind that this is one side of an Internet story... I can see this happening in some parts of California.

Keep in mind there are several Californias... there's the California of the northern and desert counties, which is a *very* conservative California. There's the Caliornia of the Bay Area, which is the major cause of most of our problems... if we could get the Bay Area to secede and form the Peoples Democratic Republic of California, the rest of the state would instantly improve by 10,000% Then there's the California of other major cities, which is a weird mishmash. We have the ultraconservative Orange County, the fairly conservative San Diego, the wasteland that is the San Bernardino / Riverside area, Fresno, the bizarre city of Sacramento, Los Angeles... a veritable rainbow of politics and weirdness!

I've pretty much given up on CA. If, after November, Jim March is able to make headway in the CCW issue, I'll be ready, willing and able to donate time and money to that. But even if we fix CCW issuance, that won't change the fact that it's a de facto felony to defend yourself in several cities. It won't affect the "assault weapon" ban, or the one-handgun-per-month law, or the drop-test law, or any of the myriad firearms laws that make no sense yet are zealously prosecuted. And, mark my words... CCW reform will be twisted by the Legislature or courts. Even if there's a clear law in place, a San Francisco prosecutor will charge someone exercising their rights with several felonies, and that person will be convicted, and the Ninth Circuit will uphold the conviction.

This state is a lost cause. The only thing keeping me here right now is my job, and the gut-wrenching terror that I won't be able to find another one somewhere else. If I had a solid offer, I'd cash out of my condo and be gone.

[JohnBT]

I hope nothing like that ever happens to me. I'm not "counter terrorist trained".

John

[gunsmith]

I have NY cops in my family,they would never do this to a fellow officer.

With some of the cops I have seen here in Cali,I am not surprised.


I have a friend on the SFPD, his advice is to police up the brass quick and leave if I am ever in an off duty shoot (Armed security,no CCW)

Political correctness is part of the CA worldview now,all city,county and state employees are all part of the problem here.

[feedthehogs]

I haven't been on the job nearly that long and I have that beat by a long shot.


Boy that's something to be real proud of.

[Dbl0Kevin]

Boy that's something to be real proud of.

It's called doing your job. The way to tell a do-nothing cop is that he never has any complaints. The simple facts of life are if you arrest a lot of criminals they are bound to make all kinds of bogus "complaints" against you. :rolleyes:

[feedthehogs]

Doin your job?

Step dad was a cop for 18 years before being injured during a chase. Never had a complaint and walked a beat in Philadelphia.

Nephews been on the job for 6 years and has no complaints. Worked the first 4 years as a SEPTA cop in the subways.

I know a few more that never got complaints during their duty.

Musta been lazy though, hangin out in the donut shop instead of beating a confession outa somebody.

Where has all the common sense gone?

[Dbl0Kevin]

Step dad was a cop for 18 years before being injured during a chase. Never had a complaint and walked a beat in Philadelphia.

I'm going to be respectful here and not say that's BS, but I will say this.

I live less than a half hour from Philly and know several Philadelphia police officers, some of whom spent their whole careers on the dept and retired. Unless you never step foot out of the station house the chances of NEVER having a civilian complaint filed against you are next to none. Have you seen your step-father's dept file and seen for yourself that there were no complaints in it? Just because something is untrue, or unfounded does not mean it is not there. I don't know of many officers who discuss civilian complaints too often, especially with their family since 99.9999% of them are all BS. In fact EVERY officer that I know.....and it's quite a few, have had a compliant against them.

[FedDC]

Well, when you work for an agency that fully investigates ALL complaints, even those given anonymously over the phone, you get a LOT of BS complaints from things like ex girlfriends, angry coworkers who think you were promoted in their place or took the position they wanted, suspects, suspects families, people that are mad at the guy that wrote their wife a ticket and see your name/card someplace, 13 year old kids playing a joke...etc. No, I am not making any of that up. The problem is that many departments will open a case based not upon a police report or a sworn affidavit, but based upon an anonymous complaint left on an answering machine. The truly tragic thing is that there is no repercussion for the person filing the false complaint since they did not have to file an official report of affidavit.

Back in the day, most depts would file complaints in the circular file which is why so many old school cops never got complaints. Heck, we even accept e-mail complaints! Nowadays, if you aren't getting complaints, you aren't doing your job because in this line of work, you are going to make some people happy...and some people very very unhappy as they are being hauled off to jail...

[TooTaxed]

Twice, while living in **********, I avoided two potential assaults by just showing a handgun. Due to a fear of being ill-treated by the police, I reported neither.

[Standing Wolf]

Well according to Standing Wolf, the only thing to miss about the PRK is the weather...

The beaches. Trust me on this, eh? The beaches.

[Hawkmoon]

Getting back to the original story -- my BS alarm is ringing off the wall. For too many reasons to even start listing. Has anyone found ANY corroboration for this fairy tale?

[R.H. Lee]

The beaches. Trust me on this, eh? The beaches.

But not with your dog. No dogs on the beach anymore. Might hurt the snowy plover.

[gunsmith]

Yeah! no dogs...but you can see parents leaving blank filled pampers all over the place.

I prefer the dogs to used pampers.

[joab]

I have heard of attacks being thwarted by the victim showing the cover of Guns & Ammo magazine-brandishing a gun rag, as it were. I flashed an empty holster and a cell phone once to thwart a group of road ragers getting set to attack a group of tourists

Perhaps the term "no complaints" simply means no interdepartmental complaints from superiors or IA.
I make that assumption because after rereading the story I see his claim that he was never once was reprimanded for anything. But could not find the statement that heNEVER got a single complaint..

[SMMAssociates]

(First post on this board.)

About the complaints....

As a rent-a-cop, I rarely got complaints from anybody but the PD.... Don't ask....

(People can be kind of funny. One night I was sitting in an abandoned gas station in my POV, talking with a couple of the local PD guys, when they received a call to check out a couple of cars sitting in the same abandoned gass station. Rule #1 at the PD - you don't send an unmarked unit to stuff like that. You guessed it - the PD guys were in uniform, in a fully marked unit.... I really wanted to go over and see what the neighbors were smoking, but I was outvoted....)

(A "POV", if you've not seen it before, is "Personally Owned Vehicle." My Guard Service was too cheap to buy cars. That one had a 5" spotlight on it, too....)

One of my friends at the PD tells the story of his first night on the job. He was riding with an older Officer, and they got sent to deal with a man causing a disturbance at the man's home. As they got to the house, the man came straight down a hallway, straight at him, holding a shotgun.

He went into whatever stance they'd trained him for (1948-ish - maybe bend over and kiss your *** goodbye?), and put six through the screen door.

Then he's thinking: "Lord, my first night on the road and I've killed somebody! So much for this career." Hears a whimper: "Don't shoot, I give up."

Turned out that the guy with the shotgun had slipped and fell right before he got to the door.... Not a scratch, and no AD.

Unknown what happened to the partner, but my buddy spent some time on the begging rug in the Chief's office. Some nonsense about the price of ammo....

What this is leading to is that some PD's, depending on when and where, will generate complaints against everybody including the janitor, and others can run a house of ill repute in the cell range, sell beer to juveniles at the front desk, and rent the City's cars out front, and _nobody_ ever says a word....

As to the story that leads off this thread. IMHO, it's possible, but somebody should fire (or fire at) the lawyer. Stupid to shoot over somebody's head like that, and both the idea that a retired LEO would do that, plus the "connection" between him and the gang-bangers, just makes me wonder a lot....

But, take it as a warning. Don't shoot unless you _really_ have to. A warning shot is just something to get prosecuted for. (Or a miss....) As to staying there, making a report, etc., you probably _should_ stick around, and it's best to grab your cell phone and call it in _first_, so you're on the 911 "tape", and those who might make up stories about you aren't first in line. (Quoting Mas Ayoob here....) Cellphones and Camcorders are a blessing and a curse, but since you've got a cellphone, use it.... Haven't got one? Get one.... An "in dash" camera might be a good investment, too, but....

Warning shots.... Another friend at the local PD, back when this sort of thing was barely reported to the Chief, let alone in the local paper, once spotted a kid running with what appeared to be a car stereo. The result, upon exiting his patrol unit, was something like "Halt or I'll BANG!!! shoot...." Finger on trigger, pothole in roadway.... Try to avoid that one, too.... (I'm still - it's only been 35 years - trying to find out who his FTO was. I have my suspicions....)

[Sergeant Bob]

read it and weep

Looks like BS....

Smells like BS....

Tastes like BS....

Sure glad I didn't step in it!!!!:what:

[YammyMonkey]

Sure glad I didn't step in it!!!!

But you put it in your mouth??? :barf:

Tastes like BS....

[cracked butt]

The BS alarm went off for me when he described himself as not being a gun owner or gun enthuiast but had enough interest to get SWAT training.:rolleyes:

[jefnvk]

IF the story is true, it gives another argument to those that say felons should never own guns.

[Graystar]

Even if the story is true, the jury was right to find him guilty.

You have the right to use deadly force when your life is imminent danger. A warning shot is not considered the use of deadly force. If his life was truly in imminent danger then he should have aimed at center mass and pulled the trigger. Otherwise, he should not have discharged his weapon.

As a private citizen you do not have police powers. You do not have the power, nor are you obligated to, warn anyone about anything. The right you possess is to defend your life with deadly force. There is no right to warn with deadly force.

[Dbl0Kevin]

As a private citizen you do not have police powers. You do not have the power, nor are you obligated to, warn anyone about anything. The right you possess is to defend your life with deadly force. There is no right to warn with deadly force.

Even as a police officer you have no authority to fire warning shots. They went out with the 60's. If you are going to fire your weapon you are going to aim center mass and keep firing until the threat is stopped....nothing more nothing less.

[Wildalaska]

What say ye about this one WA? What should he have done?

Shouldnt have pulled the trigger....ya'll gonna pull it there better be someone shot on the other end and a legal basis for the shooting

WildhegotwhathedeservedAlaska

[Michigander]

I never fired my weapon, and never owned any guns, even as a cop. I do not hunt, and would not consider myself a gun enthusiast. However, I understand all points of view, and do believe a weapon is necessary for protection, as do most all cops.

I ducked behind my door, and reached for my 9mm on the floor.

Huh?:scrutiny: