Best Pro-Gun Org


July 23, 2004, 09:56 PM
Ok, so you are warped into a strange alternate universe where you can only be a member of one pro-gun org...

Which one would you choose, and maybe throw in some pros and cons for that org?

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July 23, 2004, 10:06 PM
If I left any out of the poll that I should have put in, please write it off to my ignorance, not that I have anything against the group.

July 23, 2004, 10:53 PM
NRA of course, which you failed to put down on the list.....

July 23, 2004, 10:58 PM
That's been corrected... thanks. :D

July 23, 2004, 10:59 PM
JPFO, simply because they have that certain media feeling about them, ditto Pink Pistols for the same reason. Apparently it's okay to like guns if you're a minority, then the media doesn't rip you to bits. :rolleyes:

4v50 Gary
July 23, 2004, 11:08 PM
For big muscle in Washington, DC, it's the NRA. However, they abandoned us in California and our own AWB/registration passed in '89.:mad:

I think for getting the word out, the JFPO, SAS, Pink Pistols is better for their target audience (no pun intended). Their involvement won't raise as many eyebrows and so in some respects they can win more hearts & minds.

Last year I gave more support to the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association than others. In lieu of my writer's fee for an article, I sent the check back to them and bought a "brick" for the restoration of their museum. Will do that again if another article on this summer's class I took is printed this year and if a third article is printed, I'm going to extend my membership.

Jim March
July 23, 2004, 11:10 PM
Waitasec...if you're going to put down "NRA", are you talking about NRA the 501(c)(3), NRA/ILA the 501(c)(4), or NRA/PVF the PAC?

Or are you lumping all three together?

If you are, you should also lump SAF (501(c)(3)), CCRKBA (501(c)(4)) and AmeriPAC (PAC) in together as the same sort of set of allied organizations with different financing and allowable objectives. SAF can do non-political education, legal work, etc; CCRKBA can do lobbying, AmeriPAC can throw money at politicians. The NRA, NRA/ILA and NRA/PVF are split along the same lines for the same reasons and both are playing within the bounds of the law.

(I am not aware of any violations of the various financing/tax deduction laws among gun groups of the sort I exposed among the Million Mom March a few years back...if any gun-related groups had been playing fast'n'loose, they'd never have survived the Clinton era.)

As my job is to be the paid state rep and lobbyist for CCRKBA I won't vote or comment on any one group versus another. But I will state that you should understand what each group IS and CAN DO before voting or commenting.

July 23, 2004, 11:41 PM
Do any of these gun orgs get public monies like the environmentalist types or other left leaning/laying pacs/orgs?

It's got to point where I don't know who to give a buck to anymore without doing a ton of research. Seem to be a lot of bigshots out there in high places and I still can't have nuthin good.

And I'm legal.


Jim March
July 24, 2004, 02:59 AM
A 501(c)(3) basically gets "public money" in that donations to same can be written off on your taxes as a charitable donation. So if you donate, say, $5k, assuming you're in a fairly high tax bracket you'll get around $2k back off your taxes ("public money").

Which is why that tax status CANNOT do overt electoral politics ("candidate politics") at all, can do only minimal "issue-based grassroots politics" making up only a small portion of the group's finances and have other such limits.

Gun-rights 501(c)(3)s include:

* Main NRA (funding range safety issues, rangemaster/instructor qualifications, target shooting activities and the like).

* Second Amendment Foundation

* Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership

The first two are part of "sets" with other members of the set NOT limited in terms of more overt political activities (and with separate financing). As JPFO's primary mission is education related to the link between gun control and genocide, they do their thing within the legal limits of an educational organization.

Donations to a 501(c)(4) are NOT tax deductable, so with no "public support" they can do more overt politics. Which is why I'm paid out of such funds (CCRKBA).

501(c)(4)s include:


* NRA/ILA ("Institute for Legislative Action")

* Gun Owners of America (and their California subsidiary, Gun Owners of California)


501(c)(3)s by their nature are more efficient at fundraising. I'm on the board of directors of a 501(c)(3) - see also - we organized that way to get the funding needed to investigate wrongdoing in voting of all types, particularly electronic/touchscreens. We can publish info on what both government and private companies are doing in this field, and if people decide that a gov't official is screwing up based on our data, they can do as they will. We won't be able to say "don't vote for this person" but with enough data, we won't have to.

I'm using BBV as an example to avoid trying to "talk up" any one gun group in the above lists but the point is the same over in the gun world.

A case can be made that this poll is...well, counterproductive. What I mean is, it's unlikely anybody will label the Pink Pistols as THE most critical org but I'm here to tell you: they help. A *lot*.

Similar statements can be made about ALL of the above orgs and more, even if you don't consider them "tops".


Final note: I'm educating y'all as to the different types of orgs because the gun-grabbers do the same things, and they have a track record of screwing it up...and can be *seriously* damaged as a result.

July 24, 2004, 05:09 AM

Thank god for people like you....

I had to read that like four times before i even began to understand it - and thats how stupid the country has gotten. =(

we legistlate to legistlate to legistlate... (kinda like having a meeting to talk about what the meeting your gonna have is gonna be about in order to talk about the meeting yer really gonna decide to have a meeting on is gonna be about....) (corporate types should see the analogy)

all i gotta say is i'm glad someone in the know knows what legalese means... cause every time i try to wrap my head around it i keep going... what are all these words... shooting someone for no reason is WRONG - how can there be fourty definitions? rofl.

heh - i know - i'm a simpleton... :)


Nathaniel Firethorn
July 24, 2004, 07:09 AM
I put down NRA, for sheer force strength. Though I really wish they had had better sense than to think they could make deals with Jim McGreasy :barf: , the governor and the fourth assistant Capo of PRNJ.

Reference: The "smart" gun thing. McGreasy doublecrossed ANJRPC without a second thought, as he's doublecrossed many, many others.

- pdmoderator

Jim March
July 24, 2004, 07:20 AM

Look, the MAIN point here as far as this poll is that "NRA" should be viewed as a "set" (non-political, political, PAC which can toss money around at candidates). Ditto the SAF/CCRKBA/AmeriPAC "set". Funding has to be separated of course but each part of a "set" coordinates closely with the other parts. The grabbers run such "sets" too.

As far as I'm aware, those are the only two "full sets" of all three types of orgs in the gun-rights world.

Which is more important overall? Well let's be honest, it's the "NRA set". And if you add in the state-level orgs that are allied with the NRA (Gun Owners Action League of MA, California Rifle and Pistol Assn, ETC.) you can make a case that the NRA has the most complete "set" of all.

BUT which is more "cash efficient"? Different question, that...very different question indeed.

SAF is focused HARD on legal fights. They funded the Ohio CCW actions that "lost" at the state Supreme Court, but by establishing a definitive civil right to open carry paved the way for shall-issue CCW by legislation...which didn't get RID of the open carry rights won with SAF-financed suits. As somebody connected with the SAF/CCRKBA/AmeriPAC "set" I would point to that as our most recent big win.

July 24, 2004, 08:26 AM
VCDL - Virginia Citizens Defense League

JT...but I voted NRA because it's larger...for now :) Results count.

Nathaniel Firethorn
July 24, 2004, 08:33 AM

Thanks for the info. I'm going to check into joining SAF and Associates.

SAF et. al. have a branding problem, though. I'd never have known they were related in any way until you pointed it out.

- pdmoderator

July 24, 2004, 08:33 AM
I voted for the NRA, just because I like to see the little bits of foam and spittle come out of the Democratic leaderships' mouths whenever they talk about it.

July 24, 2004, 08:44 AM
The NRA does A LOT more than just bully politicians. "The gun lobby" is just a side line for them. GOA, SAF, RKBA, etc. are only activism organisations. They don't train instructors, conduct hunter safety classes, sanction competitions, etc. They all deserve our support, but you should be supporting the NRA even if you don't care about 2nd amendment issues.

Nathaniel Firethorn
July 24, 2004, 08:45 AM
BTW, the SAF website is NO credit to the organization:

Won't let me join without making a donation (get some crufty VBscript error.)
Nothing in FAQ about what the grades of membership mean.
Email to the "contact us" address bounces.


- pdmoderator

Jim March
July 24, 2004, 08:47 AM
Whoops :o.

I'll send some EMail towards the bosses Monday.

Nathaniel Firethorn
July 24, 2004, 08:50 AM
Thanks, Jim!

- pdmoderator

July 24, 2004, 04:51 PM
While the NRA gets the most attention, and they have a very important job... They reflect the majority of their members, which are mostly hunters.

A lot of hunters don't like evil black rifles.

Other groups handle niche markets, and many of them cover EBR's.

Which is the most important? All of them, obviously.

July 24, 2004, 06:53 PM
How'd you make the pink pistols bar pink? You can do that with the polls? :D

July 24, 2004, 08:53 PM
The NRA will never get any of my money, they compromise, I dont accept compromise when it comes to my rights.

GOA for me.

Guy L Johnson
July 25, 2004, 05:14 PM
It is agreed that NRA is the 600 pound gorilla and is is always good to have one of those on your side, BUT they are too willing to sellout(compromise)if it is the easier path and they also have their own agenda as an example when confronted by a massive mebership revolt over CARA the refused to back down on this one issue 10's of thousands of memebers objected to this legislation and they refused to withdraw support(Authored by Don Young R-Alaska and board member)and as an example of selling out all have to say is remember NC and the gunshow bill. these 2 items said that although i approve of the NRA I dont always agree with them.

Gun Owners Of America is 100% no compromise and i cant think of a single time that they supported any kind of regulation.

July 25, 2004, 09:57 PM
I don't think that which one is best matters as much as belonging to one, or several if possible! If you own any kind of firearm and are not a member of some pro 2nd organization you are part of the problem. You may as well be a card carrying member of The Brady Campaign!

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