My son turned my carry gun on himself


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Open Carry
July 25, 2004, 02:19 AM
More than a week ago, my 19 year old son took my 9mm carry gun out in the middle of the night and turned it on himself. He never gave any sign that he was suicidal until he and my handgun turned up missing in the morning. He took a short walk into the desert and was not found for three days. I taught him firearm safety and we shot recreationally together. I never imagined that he could do such a thing.

Amazingly, my wife has not blamed the availability of guns one bit. I was hesitant to bring up the subject, until she asked me if I was going to ask for my pistol back. I really did not know what to say. We both agree that the problem was in his mind and not the handgun. My enthusiasm for firearms has soured a bit, and I have so been looking forward to September.

I suppose that my message to you is that it really is possible to think of firearms as just tools and nothing more. If I had never had even one, my son would have just found another way to carry out his deed. I think that he made the wrong choice, but it was his choice.

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Warren
July 25, 2004, 02:24 AM
My wife and I send our deepest condolences.

Warbow
July 25, 2004, 02:28 AM
:(

I'm sorry for your loss. :(

abdrdude
July 25, 2004, 02:31 AM
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family in this time of loss.

Stand_Watie
July 25, 2004, 02:49 AM
Add me to what I know will be a long list of people praying for you.

I know it is no consolation whatsoever, but I certainly agree with you that he would have done it another way absent a gun.

mattf7184
July 25, 2004, 02:49 AM
My prays are with you and your wife. My condolences. :(

Tharg
July 25, 2004, 02:54 AM
OMG - i can't imagine what it would be like to lose one's own flesh and blood... i don't have any. Chose that route - but i see it in my dad's eyes when he looks at me... that it IS something special. Just too jaded to have my own...

point being that even in that deep mire of emotional stress you are mindful of the circumstances... and i commend you.

I had a friend that lost his kid to a true accident... not a suicide... he was a mess... and i don't blame him, to be honest.. i REALLY wouldn't blame you for being a mess....

My (close - lived in the same duplex) cousin commited suicide when i was all of 11.... i'll never forget it - it wasn't w/ a gun - you are right - they will find thier own way if they choose to do it.

I can only offer my sympathies - and from an unknown i don't know that it means much - but they are there. I'm not a deeply religious man - but i find it a hard sell to think God doesn't forgive even those transgressions, and your son is in a better place where he doesn't need to feel like he did when he made that choice. I've been in the position where i was making that choice... and chose different. I'm sorry he didn't see different than he did :(

If it helps --- i've heard from close sources that you never know what true depression is until you experience it... I didn't believe them. I was there making that choice once since then tho. And i'd have to agree. Its not that you "feel bad" its that you "feel nothing" ... a very scary place to be if you even felt scared... It takes a massive force of will to get out of the deep depressions and i'd like to think i understand that. The minor one's ya see creep up on ya and adjust... its the massive one's that suck - no mater how they come about - brain problems, whithdrawl, or whatever... Its a rough road....I'm so very sorry your son lost feeling. When you feel nothing - its like no one cares... there is no point... being isn't being. The rational go - its a wimps way out - think of all the hurt you leave behind... but a truely depressed person isn't feeling anything anymore. You have to feel remorse about how someone else would feel to understand that "logic" of what would dad feel like if i did this... or mom ... or anyone... when you don't feel you don't FEEL - so it doesn't register. I guess my advice is to not blame yourself about what you did wrong. When you don't feel its not about wrong or right or what someone did to ya or whatever... its truely about the fact that you don't feel a dang thing to even interject any logical feeling into it.

Take care and best wishes

J/Tharg!

cslinger
July 25, 2004, 02:58 AM
I wish I could offer more than prayers but I cannot.

I will pray for all of you. It seems so meaningless and usless but it is all I can offer.

Please accept my sympathy. I wish I could do more.

hso
July 25, 2004, 03:39 AM
My deepest sympathy for you and your wife.

I can tell you that you are absolutely correct in realizing that your son would have found a way to do this regardless. I had a good friend do the same with a shotgun he bought while one of my wife's tech's son used a rope. Not having the shotgun or rope available would not have prevented their deaths as they would have found the means.

Again, my deepest sympathy.

Jim March
July 25, 2004, 03:42 AM
Oh man.

I am so, so sorry.

Is it possible that plain biological (medical, that is) depression hit, and he didn't know how to handle it?

Rabbi
July 25, 2004, 03:53 AM
O.C.,

My deepest sympathies to you and your wife in your time of loss. The loss of one's child has to be the worst pain a parent can imagine.

I pray the Lord gives you strength and peace and hastens your healing.

Rabbi

Open Carry
July 25, 2004, 04:29 AM
Thank you all for your kind words. I know it will take time to heal and I will never understand the circumstances that caused my son to choose his path. Suffice it to say that he had previous personal knowledge of someone who sought hospitalization for depression and also a close relative whose brother committed suicide. I'm sure he had no clue of the rippling effect of pain and anguish that would ensue. We are still dealing with the aftermath, but his mother and I will go on.

I will be away from my computer for a while, so forgive me if I don't respond to any messages until I return.

MAURICE
July 25, 2004, 04:33 AM
I can say nothing that will lessen your suffering, but I will keep you, your wife, and your son in my prayers.

1911Tuner
July 25, 2004, 04:49 AM
I don't have the words...

May God bless and keep you in your time of grief and loss.

citizen
July 25, 2004, 04:58 AM
No words; just my prayers for you both. May God help you in recovery.

JoeRapture
July 25, 2004, 05:04 AM
You are in our prayers and thoughts.

Black Majik
July 25, 2004, 05:26 AM
absolutely disheartening to hear.

You have my condolences, best wishes and prayers to you and your family.

Good luck through everything.

Ed Straker
July 25, 2004, 05:35 AM
I'm really sorry for your loss, and I'm sorry for what I'm about to say:
Your title for this thread concerns me. Yes, you say your son would have found another way. And your enthusiasm for firearms has soured a bit. Sounds like you're blaming yourself. You better not! Also sounds like you're blaming the inanimate object, the tool. You better not!
I'm sorry to be a hardass, but let me give you a little background. I don't say stuff like this often, especially in public, but it fits here:
I've suffered from mental ilness for many years. I know firsthand that all the 'warning signs' are crap. There's no way you could have known. NO way.
Having said that, I made a promise to myself that I would never become a statistic for anyone's propaganda. Meaning I would never shoot myself. I've lived on the verge of suicide for many years. The main reason I haven't acted is in the above paragraph, plus with major depression one doesn't have the energy.
People who blame Prozac, Zoloft, etc, for their famiy member's suicide don't understand that's why it happens. The meds allow the person to have the energy they had before, and suicide is how they choose to spend that energy.
Sorry for the rant/admonition/ramble, whatever. But this is something that hits home.

IRONFIST
July 25, 2004, 05:46 AM
My condolences to you and yours during what must be the hardest time of your lives. Please be aware that there are many people here who support you and even some who have gone thru the same experience and who will understand the emotions raging thru you and your wife. I hope that your son can rest easy now and whatever the pain and burden was that drove him to do this act, has now disappeared like a gray cloud hit with the sun. Remember him with love and turn to the good people in your life when you need a shoulder to cry on. Again, my condolences to you.

jamz
July 25, 2004, 06:07 AM
Thinking of you guys.....

Freedomv
July 25, 2004, 06:18 AM
Words cannot convey my feelings for you and your familly,what a terrible tragedy. My deepest sympaty,and prayers to you and familly.

Please don't blame yourself and try to understand that there are things that you cannot understand.

You are very wise to open this dialog with us (THR). Talk to us when you need to. there will allways be some one here.

Vern

Preacherman
July 25, 2004, 06:29 AM
I know that there are no words that will comfort you at such a time. I can only assure you from the depths of my own heart that I do understand: that I've "been there, done that" with many families: and that the heartbreak is something that will work its way out in your life, and your wife's life, over a long, long time to come.

All I can say is: Stand tall, and face life together!

There will be times when you (or she, or both of you together) feel crushed and broken, as if you can't go on. That's why you have each other: when one doesn't have the strength, he/she can draw on the other, and when neither have the strength, at least you can kneel together rather than sprawl alone.

There will be times when well-meaning but ill-advised folk, whom you might otherwise like and respect, will say the most crashingly ignorant and hurtful things, oblivious to what they've said or how it's affected you - and instead of screaming at them, you have to go on, ushering them out of your presence and not letting them bring you to the point of collapse. They can never, and will never (please God) understand what you're going through. Excuse them in their ignorance, and walk on.

In all of the sadness, don't forget to remember the joy. There will, I'm sure, have been times of joy in your lives with your son. When the tragedy and sadness get too heavy, let them be counterbalanced by the joy and satisfaction you found in one another. The latter are as real as the former, and neither can be taken away from you. "For better, for worse; for richer, for poorer; etc." You now have that relationship in full with your son.

I have no idea of your religious beliefs, if any, and I won't presume that you share mine. However, I would like to offer you this comfort: at the end of the darkness comes the light. Your son now experiences this in a way that no living human can understand or explain to us. Your own darkness will lift in time, and light will come back. When things are very dark, and you can't believe that you can endure another minute of the darkness, remember that the light is there, and will return. May God give you the love and strength you need, in whatever way you know the Supreme Being.

Finally, please feel free to PM or e-mail me if you would like to make contact. I've been able to help many on this board, and previously on TFL, and am at your service if you would like to talk about anything.

God bless and keep you, your wife, and your son - forever family.

0luke1
July 25, 2004, 06:36 AM
I'm sorry.

Please get counselling. Nobody can handle this on their own.

What Tharg said about depression is very important. There's nothing wrong with getting help if you need it - your brain can be hurt or damaged just the same as your elbow.

hksw
July 25, 2004, 07:04 AM
I am truly sorry for your loss. My condolences.

MP5
July 25, 2004, 07:16 AM
I'm so sorry for your loss; please accept my condolences. If it's any small consolation, you're right about the gun just being a tool. I had a classmate who took his life and knew another person who tried to. Neither incident involved firearms. Determined people will find a way.

As others have suggested, please don't try to carry this burden by yourself. Seek comfort from clergy, counselors, and close friends. We weren't meant to bear such things alone.

Lady45
July 25, 2004, 07:45 AM
BluesBear and I send our prayers and sympathies in this most trying of times to your family.

To those of us left behind, it seems impossible to understand the rationale of what causes one to commit suicide....what pain or confusion or depression or unhappiness ...or whatever could bring someone to that end. The only reality is that God does not give us children as possessions...we are their teachers and guides only....and for whatever time we have them....we are blessed. (except for the terrible twos, the trying threes, the puberty.....) just a light note there... Cherish the time you had and never forget the good times. Remember him in his finest hours and seek some help to mourn your loss...be it from a minister, a therapist...or just self-help books at the library or bookstore....but take care of you and your wife. The rest time and God will take care of.


Again, you will be in our prayers.

Lady45 and BluesBear

wingman
July 25, 2004, 08:27 AM
No words can express my feelings at your loss, as a parent myself it's
overwhelming to think of. My one hope is that America can at sometime
begin to focus on why so many of our young people seem to be in so
much pain, it is very troubling to this old person.:(

PBIR
July 25, 2004, 08:29 AM
I am sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences to you and your family.

-P-

RWK
July 25, 2004, 08:35 AM
My sincerest and deepest condolences to you and your family.

CZSteve
July 25, 2004, 08:36 AM
Sorry to hear of your loss.
You may never be able to understand the why.

Thoughts and prayers are with you and your wife.

rickster
July 25, 2004, 08:37 AM
I'd like to add my condolences as well. It's times like this that snaps us back to reality as to what is really important in life. You are in my prayers.

jerryd
July 25, 2004, 08:46 AM
That happened to my friends family about 30yrs ago,my prayers go out to you and your family, i know how haed it is. jerryd

71Commander
July 25, 2004, 09:01 AM
At times like this, I feel really stupid because I don't know what to say, or if I should say anything at all.

My thoughts are with you even as I type this. My sincere condolences to you and yours.

telewinz
July 25, 2004, 09:18 AM
I am at a loss for words. It is sad to say but even with treatment it is not uncommon for people to still take their own life. Where I work suicidal inmates are placed in medical and checked at least every 15 minutes and only released when the crises is over. Yet a week or two later they still take their own life. I hope you experience no guilt...as human beings we have limits.

Mal H
July 25, 2004, 09:26 AM
Very, very sorry and saddened to hear that. My condolences to you and your family.

Sisco
July 25, 2004, 09:28 AM
I wish I had magic words that would ease your pain but there are none.
My condolences to you and your family.

Nightfall
July 25, 2004, 09:38 AM
My sincerest condolences.

fjolnirsson
July 25, 2004, 09:49 AM
My condolences. My thoughts are with you and your wife.

Atticus
July 25, 2004, 09:58 AM
How aweful. My condolences to you and your family.

jojo
July 25, 2004, 10:01 AM
My sincerest condolences. You will ALL be in my prayers.

jojo

Roc_Kor
July 25, 2004, 10:11 AM
...

I know how he must have felt. The only difference between your son and me is that he did it... he's gone... I know it can't make you feel better, but it's hard... Depression is a murdering disease. I hate it... I'm trying to think of words, but... my mind is swirling with thoughts. It's like being stuck in the darkness, and everything is going too fast, and too slow. It's like everything you love turning into everything you hate... I'm probably not making any sense, but I'm trying to connect with how your son felt when he did such a thing... but it's hard to do sometimes. Your son was in darkness... I only hope that in death he will be shown light. Damn this disease.

I'm sorry. I would write more but I'm starting to cry. Please, God, have Mercy on his soul... Don't punish him, he was in his own hell. :( :( :(

...

Harbinger
July 25, 2004, 10:24 AM
I'm so sorry, sir. :(

FPrice
July 25, 2004, 10:24 AM
My prayers for you and your family that God will help you through this time of grief.

armoredman
July 25, 2004, 10:52 AM
God bless you, and keep you close in this time of trial. May He hold you and yours in His hand, and show you the path to healing. May He place your son at His right side, for the reunion to come. Amen.

joab
July 25, 2004, 10:58 AM
My son did it with pills.
If there are other ,especially younger chiildren in the family it is important to watch them and probably get some counceling. Statiatics show that it runs in families, and family groups, usually down to the younger impressionable members.
My heart goes out to you I know what you are going through

Gixerman1000
July 25, 2004, 11:00 AM
I am very sorry.

grislyatoms
July 25, 2004, 11:01 AM
I can't even imagine.

For once, I am at a loss for words.

May the Lord shine his Grace on you and yours.

fourdeuce82d
July 25, 2004, 11:19 AM
I am sorrier than I can ever express. I am sorry for your son, and sorry for you and your wife.

Prayers, thoughts, condolences sent your way.

BryanP
July 25, 2004, 11:22 AM
"Sorry" and "condolences" just sound so hollow, but that's all I can say. God be with you.

thumbtack
July 25, 2004, 11:25 AM
:(

Nathaniel Firethorn
July 25, 2004, 11:46 AM
Man. That is so bad.

I'll put in a word to the Big Guy for you and yours.

- pdmoderator

shep854
July 25, 2004, 11:55 AM
I am very saddened for you and your family. My prayers go to you and yours for peace and restoration. Above all, DON'T for a moment entertain a shred of guilt over the event. If anyone even LOOKS like they are about to hassle you or say something critical, just walk away.

Don't let this tragedy ruin the rest of your life. The best way to honor your son's memory is to go an and make the best of life for yourself and the rest of your family.

sm
July 25, 2004, 12:13 PM
:(
My sincerest and deepest condolences to you and your family.

4v50 Gary
July 25, 2004, 12:14 PM
I cannot fathom what it is like to lose one's own offspring. The grief and loss you and your wife must feel is tremendous. Whatever made your son feel compelled to do it was neither your fault nor the fault of your wife. I'm glad neither of you are beating each other up about it. Console one another and take comfort in that you still have one another.

P95Carry
July 25, 2004, 12:24 PM
I am able to offer few words ... many have offered theirs and done better than I.

I can but begin to share your pain .... and offer my heartfelt condolences. Maybe at least knowing you are not alone does in some small way relieve a miniscule portion of all your hurt.

Sad and tragic - beyond belief. Bless you and yours.

duck hunt
July 25, 2004, 01:25 PM
My deepest condolences. You are totally correct in what you say about the gun. I've worked with troubled teens for 12 years and the problem is not with the method, but with the intent. You have my sympathy.

MountainPeak
July 25, 2004, 01:43 PM
I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. My thoughts are with you and your family.

38SnubFan
July 25, 2004, 01:44 PM
Many here have already expressed my thoughts and feelings concerning this tragic event.

My deepest sympathies to you and yours. My hope is that you will be able to take peace and comfort in the fact that your son is now in His hands, shining down with Him by his side to let you know that he is now free from the hurt and pain he felt and that he will always be with you in spirit.

I have felt those same feelings that your son must of felt. Thankfully, I was able to get help I needed in time. My family had no idea either until I asked a Crisis Intervention counselor for help.

Sometimes, it can happen so quickly for some persons that there isn't time for "warning signs" to appear. Please understand that it is not your fault.

Parents, please talk to your children. Let them read this thread. Listen to the things they say, whether they seem important to you or not, because it's important to them and they've looked to you to share it. Let them know that you're there for anything they need and are willing to help (or find help) with any problems in life they are having. Sometimes children are too embarassed or ashamed to share their feelings, and they need to know its OK to talk about anything.

Sincerely,
Matthew Webb
Franklintown, PA

Miss Demeanors
July 25, 2004, 01:44 PM
I am so sorry for your loss. :( My prayers go out to you and your family.

SMLE
July 25, 2004, 01:53 PM
Very sad news. You and yours are in my prayers.

Johnny Guest
July 25, 2004, 01:55 PM
I can only offer sincerest sympathy to you and your wife.

Johnny

Feanaro
July 25, 2004, 02:23 PM
I'm sorry for you and yours, you have my prayers. I wish I had more.

oldfella
July 25, 2004, 03:11 PM
It is indeed difficult to put it into words, to say the right thing to lessen the hurt. I will however attest to to Tharg's thoughtful observation about depression, as I've been there, in my teens - a very dangerous age in life. Depression, as Tharg states it, is a void, the only thing you hear is your voice inside, which more often than not prompts you t end it all. Some how I was able to step back from the "edge" more than once. The only suggestion that comes to mind is to love and hug those nearest to you.

Black Majik
July 25, 2004, 03:16 PM
I dont think any thread has affected me as much as this thread has.

All I thought about last night while trying to sleep was this thread. It just saddens me beyond belief to hear this happen at such a age that is closing on on his prime time in life. Everyone goes thru ups and downs, to finally realize they need an easy way out... that hey have no other recourse than to end their life. They didn't even go to family to help.

Open Carry, you and your family will continue to be in my prayers. Godspeed to you and our family.

::so saddened:: :(

El Tejon
July 25, 2004, 03:30 PM
I can't imagine anything I would say would ease your pain and agony. However, I offer my sorrow and best wishes for the family.

Standing Wolf
July 25, 2004, 03:44 PM
I'm sorry for your loss.

I've known several people who've done away with themselves. If I'd found any answers, I'd surely share them with you.

M2HMGHB
July 25, 2004, 03:55 PM
Everyone here has said true things. I'll add something to it, depression makes your body a war zone, factions inside yourself trying to overtake the other. Sometimes one wins, and theres nothing that can be done. I just hope it was quick. I offer my deepest and most hearfelt condolences to you and your wife sir.

geekWithA.45
July 25, 2004, 04:18 PM
Sympathy, sorrow, and prayers.

Larry Ashcraft
July 25, 2004, 04:20 PM
Nothing I can say that hasn't been said by somebody before, better than I could have.

Sandy and Larry Ashcraft send their deepest sympathies and condolences. We can't imagine the hurt inside.

buy guns
July 25, 2004, 04:25 PM
Open Carry, were you the one who posted something saying your son was running with bad kids and that one of them might have tried to break into your gun safe?

Blackhawk 6
July 25, 2004, 04:32 PM
Please accept my condolences. Words fail me.

tlhelmer
July 25, 2004, 05:19 PM
I cant imagine your loss. My condolences to you and your family.

MikeJ
July 25, 2004, 05:39 PM
Open Carry, we met at the Phoenix get together a year or so ago. I am so sorry for your loss. Words can not begin to convey how truly sad I feel for you and your family. You are in my thoughts and prayers as I know how terrible a loss such as this is. My wife lost her son to suicide at age 19 fourteen years ago and all I can offer is the advice to seek help as you deal with this burden. God bless you and yours, Mike

WalkerTexasRanger
July 25, 2004, 05:45 PM
Thoughts and prayers for you and your family.

Monkeyleg
July 25, 2004, 05:49 PM
I can't think of many things more terrible. Here's a prayer that you and your wife will have the strength to cope.

Lennyjoe
July 25, 2004, 06:09 PM
My heart is heavy with sorrow for your loss.

I have had a couple of friends commit suicide in the past. All were Air Force members. No one ever seen it coming either. They try to teach us how to see the warning signs but hardly anyone ever does.

My prayers are with you and your wife.

JohnKSa
July 25, 2004, 06:21 PM
That's a tough time in life. Sort of a major transition or a lot of major transitions all wrapped into one.

A friend of mine did almost exactly the same thing at almost exactly the same age. No warning, he was just gone one morning.

His folks were frantic to know why it happened. I knew him as well as anyone and there was no good reason, he was just an unhappy person and didn't know what to do with his life. I guess he figured that things were not going to get any better. He got in his car, drove until it ran out of gas and then shot himself.

I'm pretty pragmatic about things, but even if you do get your gun back I think you should sell or trade it. That's a pretty hard reminder of unpleasant times.

I'm sorry for you--there's not much I can say except for this. If he blamed you for whatever was torturing him, if he had wanted to punish you or get back at you for something, he would have made sure you found him.

Sounds like it was the kind of suicide you can't do much about--just like my friend.

Edmond
July 25, 2004, 06:22 PM
I am sorry to hear about your loss. I'm not qualified to say much but I know that you High Road family is here for you.

CWatson
July 25, 2004, 06:33 PM
Prayers and condolances from my family to yours.

No words I can offer will ease your pain.

I have a sister who has tried three times in the last twenty years to end her own life,twice by pills and once by razor blade.She to suffers from depression and the times we have discussed the reasons that pushed her over the edge they are always so unexpected and simple things to rectify,it was shocking.It is hard to try and explain why another does,and what is truly on there minds.

God bless,
CW

simmonsguns
July 25, 2004, 06:52 PM
prayers and condolenses to you and your wife,we will be here when you need us.

AZTOY
July 25, 2004, 07:03 PM
I'm sorry for your lost.:(

M2 Carbine
July 25, 2004, 07:39 PM
Open Carry

I'm really sorry for you, your wife and family.

My father shot himself when I was young so I can relate a little to how you might be feeling.

Beyond this I have first hand knowledge of what goes through the mind of a person wanting to die.
The person has made up their mind and it's not anyone's fault when they kill themselves.

What I'm saying is along with all the things that go through your mind is the feeling of guilt.
Maybe you could have or should have done something.

Like, maybe if I had been a better son my father might not have killed himself.

Try to put it out of your mind.

Believe me I know, the decision to kill yourself is a personal decision.
For whatever reason, your Son made that decision.
It was his decision and his alone.

Matt G
July 25, 2004, 07:43 PM
Words fail me, sir.

Rambling thoughts:

I'm a father, and a husband, and a gunowner, and I don't know what my life would be if we went though something like that. My wife has told me that she will have to divorce me, should such a thing, intentionally or otherwise, happen to her babies, and I believe her. I don't think it would be out of animosity, but rather that she believes that she would associate me with the loss of our child. Honestly, I can't say that I blame her.

Emotions aren't right or wrong-- they simply are. That your wife is standing strong beside you is a credit to her, and to you. The storm you're undoubtedly weathering is strong, and would be easier to do together, if possible. Sometimes it's not. :(

Thank you for sharing with us, that our awareness may grow from your tragedy. I am so very sorry for you and your wife, sir. May your son rest in peace.

ducktapehero
July 25, 2004, 07:44 PM
You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

RW MTP
July 25, 2004, 08:11 PM
I'm very sorry for your loss. I lost my 13 year old son (only child) about 8 years ago to a car/bike accident & learned a couple things that I offer up for your thoughts. You will find that the loss of your son will create a hole in your life that can't be filled. No one, not your wife, other children, family, friends or anything else can fill it. Your wife & family members will be going through grief at the same time as you, but everyone does it at their own pace. You may be up when your wife is down or vice versa. You really, really need to realize that you need to give each other all the loving support and patience that you can muster. All kinds of people will "Should on you". Listen & accept what sounds like it fits your life, but remember, it's your grief journey & only you decide what's right for you. Over time you may wish to talk to others who have been through the loss of a child to help you get out the feelings that you can't share with most people. One of the best organizations out there is "The Compassionate Friends:, an organization dedicated to/run by people who have lost children. You can find them on the web, or I would be happy to give you the contact information. Again I am very sorry for your loss and wish that God's healing grace be with you always. Tim

Rebeldon
July 25, 2004, 08:22 PM
Open Carry,

I'm terribly sorry for your loss. I can't even imagine what you are going through. Our prayers are with you and your wife.

I am heartened to see that you have maintained your principles despite your tragic loss.

Sincerely,

Rebeldon

field70
July 25, 2004, 08:25 PM
I am truly sorry for your loss. My condolences. Stay strong, my friend..My Prayers.....................

Myself
July 25, 2004, 08:43 PM
Open Carry

I can't imagine anything that hurts worse than this. I feel your pain.

I hope that somewhere in this, when time permits, you can realize some healing.
Don't go this alone.
My prayers go out for you and your family.
God Bless and good luck.

kcslim
July 25, 2004, 09:26 PM
I can't put into words how bad I feel for you sir. I will be sending prayers your way.

luxone
July 25, 2004, 09:45 PM
Mine and my families prayers are with you and yours. As the father of two children I cannot imagine your loss.

tankertom
July 25, 2004, 09:52 PM
Open Carry,

This is an absolutely heartbreaking story.

You and your family are in my prayers.

tt

gunsmith
July 25, 2004, 10:29 PM
May God bless and keep you in your time of grief and loss.

tcsd1236
July 25, 2004, 10:37 PM
My brother in law shot himself a few years ago, so I have seen my wifes family suffer through similar events. My best wishes to you.

joeoim
July 25, 2004, 11:01 PM
Open Carry

You, and your family, are in my thoughts and prayers.

Joe

Felonious Monk
July 25, 2004, 11:09 PM
OC

You and your family have my deepest condolences. You will be in my prayers.

Ben/FM

LynnMassGuy
July 25, 2004, 11:16 PM
I am so sorry. Please go easy on yourself. My condolences to you and your family.:(

ilike9s
July 25, 2004, 11:17 PM
Sorry for your lose. The lose of a son is very sad, my prays are with. May your son find peace.

Ilike9s

Freedspeak
July 25, 2004, 11:21 PM
My condolences and prayers from my family to you and yours.

It is no fault of your own, but over the years I have seen that when a soul wishes to leave, it will find a way.

entropy
July 25, 2004, 11:30 PM
My family's prayers will be for God's grace and peace for your family.:) May He grant you shelter in his infinite mercy and love. This is one of those time in life where there is one set of footprints in the sand, and they aren't yours. Take care of yourselves.

chaim
July 25, 2004, 11:35 PM
I am truly sorry to hear of this. I am painfully aware of how hard depression can be on a person (friends, family) and I've seen what it does to people. It is a shame that your son took this way and couldn't (that is couldn't not didn't) see any other way out. This is something you'll have to live with the rest of your life, and it won't be easy. Know that my prayers and hopes are with you. Please, don't try to tough this out. You've told us about it, now tell a counselor (you and your family will need him/her even if you don't think so) and/or find a support group. Unfortunately, there are too many people who have blazed this trail before you.

Travis McGee
July 26, 2004, 12:07 AM
I'm so, so sorry for your loss. Prayers out.... GBU, your wife, and your son.

joe sixpack
July 26, 2004, 12:14 AM
I am truly sorry for your loss.

I am wishing for you the best that can be from here on out.
Take care, and let me know if I can be of help.

cheers, ab

BamBam-31
July 26, 2004, 12:16 AM
My prayers for you and your family. Parents should never have to bury their children. :(

Flatfender
July 26, 2004, 12:18 AM
My heart goes out to you, your family and your son. I cannot imagine the amount of your grief, but I'm crying as I type this as I think about my children who are asleep in their beds 20 feet away.

Steelharp
July 26, 2004, 12:45 AM
I am... so, so sorry... I look for words of magic comfort... but I am speechless. The love of this whole family here goes out to you and yours, as it does from my whole family.

May the Lord Jesus give you comfort and blessings and wisdom in this most terrible, trying time.

Mikey D...

FMarlon
July 26, 2004, 12:54 AM
Open Carry.

There are no words that I can speak to take away your pain. If there were, you bet sure as heck I'd say them.

What I can tell you is that you are not alone. We (THR) are here for you. I think I speak for us all when I say that when you, our brother hurts, we hurt, too.

Do not blame yourself, the object, or anything else for that matter. I speak out of experience. My Big Bro killed himself 10 years ago this september.

I wish I could tell you the pain will stop. It will not. The pain will lessen. You WILL COPE.

Here (http://madogre.com/Archives/jan_16_31_2204.htm) is a letter I wrote to Mad Ogre about how he helped me. It is the second letter on this page.

Again, remember that we are all with you. just as your pain is our pain, our strength is yours.

Man, words are inadequate. I wish I were there to help.

P.S. Walkers in Darkness (http://www.walkers.org/) Is a great help in such times.

*Goes off to pray long and hard for you and yours*

Mastrogiacomo
July 26, 2004, 01:07 AM
I'm so terribly sorry to hear about your loss and the sad end to a promising life. I pray that God will help you and your wife get through this painful time. :(

Psssniper
July 26, 2004, 02:21 AM
Open,
I have read your post a handfull of times,
and each time I read it,
my heart is torn apart
and I start to cry.

there are no other words I can say

The_Antibubba
July 26, 2004, 02:53 AM
OpenCarry,

I'm usually pretty good at finding the right thing to say, but there is nothing that can be said to make any of this easier. I do know the despair your son must have felt-many times I've known it. If this was his first major bout of depression (and it can come out of nowhere at any age), then I'm sure he had no idea how to handle it.

When the funeral is over and all the people who have gathered for you have dispersed, it will be you and your family to deal with it. GET COUNSELING! You do not, and should not, have to tough it out alone. You and your family, especially any other children you may have, are especially vulnerable to depression and suicidal thoughts at this time. You might want to call the parents of your son's friends, too, and have their children talk to someone, too-too often, one suicide sets off others in a peer group.

Always know you are not alone. You can get through this, whether you want to or not.

Vimes
July 26, 2004, 03:31 AM
I can only vaguely imagine how you feel. You have my deepest sympathy.

Gabe
July 26, 2004, 03:48 AM
Not long ago we had a suicide on another forum. A middle aged woman bought a gun, hiked out on a trail and ended her life. She was meticulous to make sure none of her friends could have intervened. Thing about suicide is, it ends the suffering of one person, but the pain it causes to those around them lasts for so long.

I read about Paul Newman and how it took him decades to come to terms with his son's OD death. In the end, everyone has their destiny. No body else can choose it for them. I'm very sorry for your loss.

Bruce in West Oz
July 26, 2004, 03:50 AM
As a father of two myself, I can only just begin to understand the enormous loss you and your wife are experiencing. Nothing I can say will make the hurt go away … only time can do that. But were I able, I would give you and your wife a hug to let you know you're not alone.

Deepest sympathies from Di and me.

who me
July 26, 2004, 07:07 AM
I'm sorry about your loss my prayers are with you and your family.

LASur5r
July 26, 2004, 11:40 AM
It is with a heavy heart that I send our prayers to you and your son for the tragedy that happened.

My daughter will be 18 in November...I pray that she does not find herself in a position that she feels that she has to do that...but we never know.

A good friend of mine had some of the nicest kids in the world and it wasn't until college....an ivy league one at that did the youngest, his son, got into drugs...and then they all went on the road to hell together. My friend didn't know and didn't see it...no one did.

Please do not blame yourself or your son...we do our best for the ones that we love...and that is all we can really do. Sorry.

geojap
July 26, 2004, 11:42 AM
I don't know what else to say other than your family has my deepest sympathies in your time of loss. I am extremely sorry to hear of this.

Colt46
July 26, 2004, 11:52 AM
It sounds like you two are holding up better than most. You have my utmost sympathy for your loss. You may be in for an emotional roller coaster. The love that you have will be your most important weapon. Use it.
You may never know the answers to the demons that haunted your son. Blaming yourselves would be useless. Treasure what you had and still have.
Still, I like to see your refusal to put the blame on an object that was, in this case, misused in this tragedy.

Again,
my deepest regards

Leatherneck
July 26, 2004, 11:59 AM
As many have said, there are no words to express my sorrow and sympathy for you and your wife. Please do not despair; you must support your wife, and seek her support when you need it. That will be difficult. My prayers are with you.

Tom Carter

Nickotym
July 26, 2004, 12:08 PM
Sorry about your loss, will keep you in mind at prayertime.

Whole Hog
July 26, 2004, 12:09 PM
My deepest sympathy. I can't even contemplate such a loss.

Scott

sturmruger
July 26, 2004, 12:55 PM
I really don't know what to say other then my heart and prayers are with you.

gp59
July 26, 2004, 02:24 PM
OC I am so sorry for your loss, I can not imagine what you and your wife are going through right now. hang tough and let this tragedy make your bond stronger. take care
Dave


:( :(

mack69
July 26, 2004, 02:42 PM
OC, I along with all of the rest offer you and your family my condolences....My prayers and thoughts are with you all. Peace to you and your family....mack

MAClarkWA
July 26, 2004, 02:48 PM
Open Carry,

My Fiancé and I would like to offer our deepest condolences, you and your family will be in our prayers.

God Bless, and take care.

crucible
July 26, 2004, 03:04 PM
Words fail; I'm so sorry for your loss. My family and I will keep you all in our prayers.

Cruc

griz
July 26, 2004, 03:18 PM
My sincerest condolences to you both. It feels like there should be more to say but I am at a loss right now.

Pebcac
July 26, 2004, 03:34 PM
Sweet Jesus Christ, I'm sorry.

I knew a kid all the way through school who shot himself with his deer rifle during his junior year (I was a senior). Nobody saw it coming. You never really know what's in someone else's mind.

The suggestions to get help for yourself are the way to go. Comforting words from friends here are a start, but find someone you can talk to about all the details of what you are feeling. Priest, pastor, friend, psychologist, or (best choice) any combination thereof.

I'm so very, very sorry.

moa
July 26, 2004, 04:01 PM
My dad committed suicide with a handgun in 1972. Took a while to get over it, but eventually time healed the hurt.

Selfdfenz
July 26, 2004, 05:31 PM
I just saw this.
My prayers are with you and your family.

S-

one-shot-one
July 26, 2004, 07:01 PM
if you are a believer please make time to pray togather with your wife, daily if possible, do everything in ya'lls power to to protect your marrage during this trying time.

kalibear45
July 26, 2004, 07:19 PM
Its a sad tragedy.

My deepest condolances goes out to you and your family. May he rest in piece.

bamawrx
July 26, 2004, 08:00 PM
I have two uncles that did the same thing. I am very sorry for your loss, and will be praying for you and your family. I wish there was something we could do to help prevent this sort of thing. It is very sad.

On a side note: I would get rid of the firearm and would probably trust one of my good gun friends to do this for me to ensure it found a good home. Use a different gun or buy another one for your protection. I have several of my uncles guns, but sold the one used in the act. I have not be unhappy with that decision.

Michigander
July 26, 2004, 09:24 PM
My deepest sympathies go out to you and your family.

Safety First
July 26, 2004, 09:38 PM
OPEN CARRY.. It is difficult to read your post without tears in the eyes. I am so sorry for your loss and I know that I certainly do not have words adequate to console you. I realize from your post you realize that you are not responsible for your sons actions and that is a good start. Just know that many people including myself will be praying for you and your family as you grieve and work through this most difficult time.
You are not alone and many of us hear will always be willing to listen and talk to you and pray with/for you, whatever you need.. May the Peace of God that passes all understanding be with you and the family forever and ever..Amen..

Stevie-Ray
July 27, 2004, 12:41 AM
We are deeply saddened by your loss and will keep you in our prayers and thoughts. God bless.

S_O_Laban
July 27, 2004, 01:34 AM
Open Carry, prayers sent my friend, please heed the advice of those advocating counciling. No man is an Island.

Elarski
July 27, 2004, 05:12 AM
Prayers sent. Keep strong for your Family. I know our crosses can be hard to bear sometimes, but Love, Faith, and Hope will help lighten the load. Good luck to you and your Family.

twoblink
July 27, 2004, 11:36 AM
Heart felt prayers..

DevilDog
July 27, 2004, 12:36 PM
I am sincerely sorry for your loss and your family has my hopes and prayers to get through this difficult time.

Rockrivr1
July 27, 2004, 12:59 PM
I am truly sorry for your loss and my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your wife. Hopefully the bond between the two of you can help you both make it throught this troubled and emotional time.

Bubbles
July 27, 2004, 01:11 PM
OC - I am so sorry. I can not imagine losing a child.

My husband and I will be praying for your family.

Heraclitus
July 27, 2004, 01:12 PM
Sad. So sad. It is truly a loss for all.

Mute
July 27, 2004, 01:42 PM
I'm speechless. My condolences to you and your family.

Crownvicman
July 27, 2004, 02:09 PM
May God bless you and your family. I will pray for you. Please talk with your wife and other close to you. You need to get this off your chest.

MaterDei
July 27, 2004, 02:46 PM
I'm so very sorry. May almighty God bless you, and keep you, and mark you with Grace. Your son is in my prayers, as are you all.

Chin up, time heals.

DonP
July 27, 2004, 03:18 PM
You have my deepest sympathies.

My son in law's brother, a Chicago cop, chose to end his own life at 25 with his service weapon in April.

The Cop Chaplain put it best at Kevin's funeral when he said,

"We can never know or understand that moment of darkness, hopelessness and desparation that comes on a person that is so obviously loved and cared for by those around him. But as surely as we believe in a loving God, we must also believe that evil also roams the earth watchful for a moment of doubt or pain to take advanatge of and push somone over that edge."

My prayers are with you and yours.

12-34hom
July 27, 2004, 05:15 PM
My sympathies and prayers to you and your wife.

12-34hom.

Slimjim
July 27, 2004, 10:18 PM
:( I feel sorry for your loss.

Shanghai McCoy
July 28, 2004, 12:14 AM
Just saw this.My condolences to you and your family.

Open Carry
August 1, 2004, 05:52 AM
Thank you all for your heartfelt replies and prayers. I have read each message and am overwhelmed by the support of the High Road family. I have just returned from the funeral that we held this week in Pennsylvania. He was my only child and I would have paid any price for the chance to change his mind. Someone asked if he had been troubled, running with the wrong crowd, and he was not. I believe that he simply gave up.

His obit is
here (http://www.legacy.com/azcentral/LegacySubPage2.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonId=2453067)

Thank you again for all your support in this trying time.

elkhunter
August 1, 2004, 09:39 AM
prayers sent.......

Gary H
August 1, 2004, 11:14 AM
Sad.. We do our best in life, but never fully control the outcome. God Bless..

P95Carry
August 1, 2004, 12:59 PM
Thx for the link John .. what an unimaginable few days this must have been for you and Patty. May the days and weeks ahead be filled with the love and companionship of others to better enable you to move on.

Ben Shepherd
August 1, 2004, 10:32 PM
open Carry my best friend of over 1/2 my life did the same thing on July 31st, 2 years ago. Members here will remember the story. But the end result was he left a new wife and 5 children(2 of them unborn twins, which are doing fine now) behind. It was and still is taking a lot out of me dealing with it.

Anyhow my point wasn't to take over the thread. just to make the point that I went through something very similar, and came to the same conclusion you did.

God be with you at this time. If you need or want to chat, shoot me a P.M. Prayers are said for you.

FedGunner
August 1, 2004, 11:19 PM
My condolences and prayers.

pauli
August 1, 2004, 11:37 PM
any death is difficult to deal with; more so with a loved one, more so with a suicide, and they say the loss of one's child is the toughest of all. my condolences.

i've had my share of deaths around me, and always terrible, moreso the suicides of family members. make sure you've got someone to talk to, be it a friend, a minister, or a professional, even if you don't think you need it.

life goes on, but it's darn hard.

i know that having had family members shoot themselves did nothing to improve my mom's opinion of guns (it did not affect mine), and when i bought my 22, she made me promise i wasn't going to shoot myself or anyone else.

kymarkh
August 2, 2004, 01:09 PM
My brother took his life with my G22 in January of 1999. It took me about 3 years before I could even touch another firearm. I finally sold the G22 about a year ago and have felt much better ever since. I'm now back to my routine of shooting at the range once a week. My brother owned his own shotguns and rifles, he just did not have any pistols. I don't blame the gun, or myself, anymore - but it is not easy. I'm tearing up now.

We were lucky enough to have a S.O.S. (Survivors of Suicide) group close by that took us in and helped us get through this. We are still ''getting through it'. My parents, siblings, and wife went to these group sessions for over a year and they helped us more than I realized at the time. By talking about my feelings 'out loud' I was able to get some closure. This type of thing is not for everyone, but I encourage you to find something similar and give it a try. Keeping it inside and running the same things through your head day after day are not going to help you at all. I know.

I felt compelled to respond to your post, and apoligize for the length of this reply. I just wanted to give you my condolences, and wanted to let you know that I'm here for you and will say a prayer for your son tonight.

Mark

Top_Notch
August 2, 2004, 01:28 PM
Condolences and prayers for your family.

Nick_90
August 3, 2004, 11:08 AM
You are in my thoughts and my prayers for you both and for your son. Sincere condolences. May God help you in recovery...

Pug Puppy
August 3, 2004, 02:54 PM
Jesus comfort you in your time of disaster.
I've battled depression since 1994. The meds DO work.
Things from spider bites to low blood pressure can make you feel suicidal.
Please, even if you think you are thinking of harming yourself, get help promptly.
Remember: they can only take your guns if you're committed against your will(like a court order).
Again, my deepest sympathies.

MeekandMild
August 3, 2004, 08:51 PM
Bless you and your family. We never know what the morrow will bring.

pyrguy
August 3, 2004, 09:27 PM
My prayers to you and yours.

My brother-in-law did the same in his family room. Be two years on 9-11.

It'll take time but you will heal.

nipprdog
August 3, 2004, 09:53 PM
you have my condolences.

after losing a brother 5 years ago, I have seen the pain of a parent bearing the loss of one of thier own.

wardog
August 4, 2004, 01:12 AM
My condolences for your loss.

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