Beretta Storm with Folding Stock???


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Lone_Gunman
July 25, 2004, 09:24 PM
When the AWB ends, do you think Beretta will make a folding or collapsible stock version of the Storm?

It would be a pretty handy carbine. Any interest in something like that?

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thumbtack
July 25, 2004, 09:34 PM
That would be cool and I would get one then, but there may be a legal issue if the length does not meet minimum required length of a rifle.

MagKnightX
July 25, 2004, 10:36 PM
It's only an issue if the rifle is too short with an UNFOLDED stock.

MagnumCaliber357
July 26, 2004, 03:05 AM
one, why would you put a collapsible stock on an already small and compact enough carbine that has the ablilty to place inserts to adjust buttstock length. two whats this buisness with legal lenght, as soon as the awb expires lenght wont matter no more.

three
"It's only an issue if the rifle is too short with an UNFOLDED stock."
wOULDNT it be even shorter with THE STOCK FOLED!!! so why would the length of it unfolded matter?

MagKnightX
July 26, 2004, 04:04 AM
The length is regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934... 16" or longer barrel (18" for shotguns), 26" or longer overall length with foldable stocks extended, or else you get to pay thousands of dollars and spend ten years in a federal prison, and lose the right to ever own a firearm again. Period. The AWB doesn't affect the NFA. The measurements, however, are taken with stocks fully extended, so if you had a firearm that had a 5" receiver and a 16" barrel beyond that, but a 12" folding stock, it would be 33", not 21".

In any case, I repeat in case anybody thinks the AWB changes the length requirements: It does not. You have a rifle or shotgun that does not meet the length requirements, and you do not have it registered to you as an NFA firearm, you WILL be sent to jail for ten years on a felony. End of story.

c_yeager
July 26, 2004, 04:47 AM
wOULDNT it be even shorter with THE STOCK FOLED!!! so why would the length of it unfolded matter?

Because the legal definition of OAL (overall length) when applied to rifles with folding stocks is that the rifle's length when the stock is UNfolded is the only leangth that matters.

So, you could have a folding stocked rifle that is 27" long WHEN THE STOCK IS EXTENDED and be perfectly legal. It doesnt matter that the rifle is only 20" long when the stock is folded.

whm1974
July 26, 2004, 08:40 AM
So, you could have a folding stocked rifle that is 27" long WHEN THE STOCK IS EXTENDED and be perfectly legal. It doesnt matter that the rifle is only 20" long when the stock is folded.

I think you are wrong here. A rifle has to be at least 26" long, weither it has a stock or not. If it has a folding stock then it has to be 26" long with stock folded. Niether the NFA or the AWB requires a rifle or shotgun to even have a stock.

-Bill

ckyllo
July 26, 2004, 09:12 AM
another angle: the 89 aw ban 922 i think says that no "evil" features can be imported on a firearm including folding stock or flash hider, also explanes the thumbhole stock. since the storm that my friend has says made in Italy it falls into the import catagory. last I have heard Beretta has no plans on making the storm here. so even if the 94 ban does sunset the 89 has no sunset and will be stuck with it at as gun grabbing libs are in congress. a final answer would be to write a letter to the ATF and describe what you want to do most likely be shot down with the nfa and '89 aw ban.

edit to add if only the '89 ban was in the way finding 5 us made parts for it might get around that part of it. and maybe getting a tax stamp for a sbr could make the gun as short as you want.

Tamara
July 26, 2004, 09:17 AM
The ATF judges whether the folded or un-folded OAL is to be used by whether the weapon is designed to be fired with the stock folded or not. This is why M1 Carbines in paratrooper stocks are not NFA items. :)

Tamara
July 26, 2004, 09:20 AM
so even if the 94 ban does sunset the 89 has no sunset and will be stuck with it at as gun grabbing libs are in congress.

"Gun grabbing libs" in Congress have nothing to do with the '89 ban, as it was merely an executive order signed by the father of our current President.

A pro-gun President could neutralize the '89 ban with the stroke of a pen. Maybe someday we'll have one. I'm not holding my breath.

ckyllo
July 26, 2004, 10:34 AM
It has been my understanding that it takes either the prez to sign a EO voiding out the first or a act of congress to void an EO. since most of the time one prez wont void a former prez EO for fear of the next will do the same to him. that leaves congress to do it with all the gun grabbers out there. when is the last time that a prez has voided a former prez EO? and yea I wont hold my breath cause blue isnt a good color for my face.

MagnumCaliber357
July 27, 2004, 01:11 AM
glad for the correction of my misunderstandings. i thought the awb did effect barel lenght. this one geltleman at a gunshow i went to was trying to sell a g3 clone with a shorter barrel included in the deal for $100 bux more or sumting. he was trying to explain that as soon as the awb expires you can go ahead and put in the shorter one. i realize now this was prob just a scam! now reading into the nfa i see what you guys mean OAL and stock unfoled has t0 be over 26" and 16" barrel. i guess a foldng stock like the one on an Artic Warfare would be mad wicked:D i guess you learn somthing new everyday. and with that not how are krinks made legally? is it considered a pistol? also what is this " '89 " people refer too?

Mulliga
July 27, 2004, 01:48 AM
this one geltleman at a gunshow i went to was trying to sell a g3 clone with a shorter barrel included in the deal for $100 bux more or sumting. he was trying to explain that as soon as the awb expires you can go ahead and put in the shorter one

Total rubbish, obviously. You hear the worst misinformation at gun shows sometimes - this one guy was telling me I couldn't put a collapsible stock on my post-ban Bushie after Sept. 14th. :rolleyes:

with that not how are krinks made legally

They are short-barrelled rifles (SBRs). You have to register them and pay the $200 tax under the provisions of the NFA of 1934. Of course, afterwards, feel free to re-enact that bathroom scene in "True Lies." :)

what is this " '89 " people refer too?

The 1989 executive order (signed by Bush Sr. - the Bushes were never RKBA supporters - 'cept for Jeb) effectively banning importation of some foreign "non-sporting" firearms, I believe. This is why it's dangerous to replace the U.S. made parts on your SAR-1 with Romanian parts IIRC, and this is also why Steyr AUG-type semiauto carbines are so hard to come by.

MagnumCaliber357
July 27, 2004, 01:53 AM
at all the show i go to there like 4,000 bux, never could understand what made them so special.

c_yeager
July 27, 2004, 05:02 AM
I think you are wrong here. A rifle has to be at least 26" long, weither it has a stock or not. If it has a folding stock then it has to be 26" long with stock folded. Niether the NFA or the AWB requires a rifle or shotgun to even have a stock.

I would strongly suggest that you give the ATF a ring and verify some of the stuff you are talking about here. Both the first part and (more importantly) the second part.

whm1974
July 28, 2004, 09:11 AM
I would strongly suggest that you give the ATF a ring and verify some of the stuff you are talking about here. Both the first part and (more importantly) the second part.

I'm sure I'm right about the first part. However I'll amite that I might be wrong about the second, but I think I'm right. I will take a look at the ATF's website when I get the chance.

-Bill

MAKOwner
July 29, 2004, 04:48 AM
OAL is determined with the stock extended per the NFA. However I think one or two states have a state reg that says they must be 26 inches long with it folded. A rifle or shotgun doesn't have to have a stock at all, although obviously in that case the overall length has to be over 26 inches without any type of stock...

The distinction of the weapon being able to be fired while folded or not like the SU-16, has nothing to do with the OAL requirement, but with the definition of a folded stock for the AWB. IE if you can't shoot the weapon folded like the standard SU-16, it's not technically/legally a "folding stock" thus not a "evil feature"...

You need look no further than the underfolder AKs and the paratrooper stock equiped M1 carbines, both under 26 inches with the stocks folded yet legal to own/buy...

Harry Tuttle
July 29, 2004, 01:07 PM
http://premium.uploadit.org/docZox/CX4shorty.jpg
kinda looks like an Imperial Blaster

whm1974
July 29, 2004, 07:05 PM
IE if you can't shoot the weapon folded like the standard SU-16, it's not technically/legally a "folding stock" thus not a "evil feature"...

The SU-16 also doesn't have a pistol grip or threaded barrel either.

-Bill

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