[StopTheGrays]

Does anyone have an opinion on the M1 Carbines being made by American Ordnance/Kahr? I want to buy an M-1 and I would like to know if these newer models are any good.

AO/Kahr M1 Carbine (http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_pricing_lg_f.html)

[KaceCoyote]

Just wait till after the AWB, we may see paratrooper version with a folding stock.

[Trebor]

They are cast receivers with a mix of surplus USGI parts and newly made cast parts. I don't have any information as to their reliability or accuracy, either way. Assuming they work, they'll probably do OK for plinking, but I question their long term durability.

Personally, I'd pass based on durability concerns. Parts replacement can be real iffy with aftermarket carbines. I don't know how many of the Kahr parts will interchange with GI parts, but the more that will, the better, as it makes parts replacement much easier.

For the same money, you can usually find a good "shooter" USGI carbine. The collectible ones are much more expensive, and the really pristine GI arsenal reworks cost more as well, but you can still find used, but not abused, GI guns for $300 to $400 if you hunt for awhile.

[Das Pferd]

Just wait till after the AWB, we may see paratrooper version with a folding stock.

Or buy a GI one for $400 and put a side folding stock on it right now.

[KaceCoyote]

Or I could buy one with a warranty and a possibly a folding stock after the ban for the same price or maybe at most 50 bucks away. If its unreliable I'll send that thing back and use that warranty to the fullest extent I can.

[natedog]

Pferd, that'd violate the AWB, as M1 Carbines (in USGI form) aren't pre-ban assault weapons (only one evil feature). The gun had to be in assault weapon configuration before the AWB cut off. Makes a lot of sence :rolleyes: .

[KaceCoyote]

Gallery of guns gives about a 60% discount on Kahr guns, this is a rough apoximation but if thats true. The Kahr M1 brand new with warranty is yours for about 384 bucks.

[NEtracker]

Personally, I like the history in mine; I have two M1 carbines, USGI.

[Das Pferd]

Pferd, that'd violate the AWB, as M1 Carbines (in USGI form) aren't pre-ban assault weapons (only one evil feature). The gun had to be in assault weapon configuration before the AWB cut off. Makes a lot of sence

Where does the SKS fall then?

[RooK]

The SKS falls the same place all other rifles do, plus the 922r import law restrictions. I've heard that the SKS is exempt from the AWB due to the non-detachable magazine, but some models do except AK mags and if you remove the fixed magazine it can take duckbills. I would hesitate if I wanted to test the law, the ATF could say it's an AW (if in proper congfiguration) because it can be easily converted to a detachable mag. Remember this as well: an SKS can't have any features that would bar it from importation unless it has 10 or less imported parts. Thus pistol grips, folding stocks, etc are illegal on a stock SKS, but not under the AWB. Don't you love stupid laws?

[ScottsGT]

Well my original USGI Winchester "had" a folding stock on it, but it broke so I had to order a "replacement" :neener:

[StopTheGrays]

With shipping I can get one from Davidson for just under $500.00, that includes their (Davidson's) lifetime guarranty. That is FFL pricing.

[M2 Carbine]

I saw a Kahr Carbine at a Fort Worth dealer.
It had a couple used GI parts (which Kahr should have refinished) and overall looked pretty good.

I've got 9 M1/M2 Carbines now and if the Kahr price get's in the four hundred dollar range I'll buy one.

[Das Pferd]

Thus pistol grips, folding stocks, etc are illegal on a stock SKS, but not under the AWB. Don't you love stupid laws?

So all the side folding pistol gripped stocks they sell for SKS's are illegal? I really dont think your right about this. But anyways.

[buzz_knox]

The side folding stocks are legal on non-detachable magazine SKS. They aren't covered by the AWB. I'm not aware of whether or not they are covered by the '89 import ban and the section of 922 which codifies the ban. Assuming that they are covered, then the side folding stocks would be legal for those imported prior to the '90 effective date of the latter statute.

[RooK]

So all the side folding pistol gripped stocks they sell for SKS's are illegal? I really dont think your right about this. But anyways.

I am. How many pistol gripped rifles have you see imported lately? None. They have either normal stocks or thumbholes. To convert to a pistol grip, you have to be pre-'89 ban, as buzz_knox stated, or have 10 or less imported parts. Neither are easy to complete when it comes to the SKS, but they're out there. Finally, yes there are a crap load of illegal SKSs floating around without the owners knowing such.

[Atlas Shrug]

Well my original USGI Winchester "had" a folding stock on it, but it broke so I had to order a "replacement"

Well, IIRC, all original M1A1 versions were Inland. Some may have been swapped around after the war(s) and prior to the '94 ban.

What a completely stupid F*&&@$% law. Even if you don't like guns, you've got to agree that laws this backwards absolutely undermine any remaining respect for "da gummint" and it's supposed authority.

Nuff said

(I'm a huge fan of the M1 carbine and like the M1A1 stock, so this law really, really annoys me.)

[RooK]

Tell that to people on the Democratic Underground forum. They keep saying the same things as Brady, "AWs and blood in the streets!" Just like Democrats, you try to tell them any different and they start either making fun of you or talking about 'all the police' that support it. I really can't understand it.

[StopTheGrays]

I am thinking I may also want to wait until the Hezi conversion kits come out (if the 94 ban does not get renewed would I be able to convert an M1 carbine to this platform?) I saw one at the SHOT show and was just amazed at the unique design.

[ScottsGT]

What is a Hezi conversion kit ?

[buzz_knox]

Is this the Hezi? (http://www.geocities.com/psiworld/hezism1.html)

[M2 Carbine]

I didn't see a price on it.

It looks like it might make a fun M2.

[ScottsGT]

I'm just too nostalgic to do that to an M1 Carbine! The Carbine has to be one of the best looking small rifles ever built. BUt I can see a "tactical" purpose for the spacegun.
I guess I'm just not "tactical"!

[M2 Carbine]

Well Scott you probably aren't going to like my M2 at all.:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/M2_Red_Dot.jpg

[ScottsGT]

OOoooo....
I like it! Still looks original, but with a few modern touches. Kind of like a "66 Mustang with late model power options!

[StopTheGrays]

Is this the Hezi?
Yep, that is it.

[StopTheGrays]

Is this the Hezi?
Yep, that is it. The verticle foregrip addon options are what I am interested most. Really cool concept IMO.

[M2 Carbine]

Ya Scott I guess you could say that.:D

Actually I've got 3 or 4 handguards if I want to take off the Red Dot but it's fun to shoot as it is.

I had to drill a hole in the stock for the stud to mount the bipod but no big thing to return it to GI original.

[varoadking]

First reviews pretty well seem to indicate :barf:


http://www.battlerifles.com/viewtopic.php?t=34264

[mrstang01]

Hmm, you must be reading different reviews there than I was, so far, it seemed to be a break-in issue, a bit early to be jumping to conclusions, at least based on that thread.

[M2 Carbine]

I wouldn't call that a negative review.
More like a review from someone that paid $500 for a rifle but expected to get a $1,700 AR.

Investment casting parts doesn't mean the parts are junk and including GI parts isn't a bad thing either.

The Kahr Carbine I saw had a used M2 GI bolt.
It also did not have a "M2 type pot-belly stock".
It had a selector cut out but was NOT a" pot belly" stock.

One of my Carbines is a Plainfield that has a factory selector cutout but it isn't a pot belly stock.
The Kahr stock I saw reminded me of the Plainfield. A crappy finish for a military type weapon.
(I believe Kahr offers 2 different stocks)

I certainly wouldn't trade one of my GI Carbines for a Kahr but it looks like it will be a shooter.

We'll see after some get on the range.

[StopTheGrays]

If I wanted to build my own who should I buy the parts from including a receiver? Any of them offer dealer pricing?

[M2 Carbine]

I don't know who has receivers but I've seen all the parts (new and used) at the bigger gun shows.

You can probably still get the complete GI parts sets (- receiver) but I wonder if it's mostly worn out junk.

I doubt you would save any money but you could have a better than average Carbine.

The hardest thing is screwing in the barrel, which is no problem with a receiver wrench.
I've changed out about 10 used barrels and receivers and they always line up/ headspaced with no problem.

[M2 Carbine]

Riverbank Armory's web site shows they have new IAI receivers for $99
http://home.att.net/~ra-carbines/parts1.html


Here's some more.
http://www.sarcoinc.com/rifles-receivers1.html

[NEtracker]

M2 Carbine,
Re: the pic of your Carbine...
Very cool! Mine don't look like that, but I wouldn't mind modifying my import.

[M2 Carbine]

NEtracker
This M1 has a UltiMAK scope mount. It's a little expensive and I actually don't like it's looks on the Carbine but it does a good job. A little wood has to be removed inside the stock to make room for the UltiMAK mount.
http://www.ultimak.com/m6.htm

The bi pod is a Harris 6 inch. It requires a stock sling swivel stud be screwed into the stock. (at least that's how I mounted it)

The stock on this rifle is from back when the Carbines were coming in from Korea and selling for about $130 to $165. The wood on most of them was bad to unusuable. I've done about all I can do with this one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/CarbineUltiMax.jpg

[NEtracker]

Looks good.
I couldn't save the dark stock on my Korean import Underwood. It was cracked under the recoil plate.

[Sven]

I'd only go USGI for a carbine, for a lot of reasons - history, history, parts interchangability, history...

Send it to MilTec (http://www.miltecharms.com) if you need a new barrel or re-park - they will set you up. The rebuilt a Winchester for me and at 50 yards (with the UltimAK scout scope mount) I can consistently get 4/5 shots touching, with one shot maybe .5 - .75 inches out. Good enough for my purposes.