Web rumors and astronomy


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Preacherman
December 29, 2002, 10:35 AM
Hi, all. I'm sure many of you have seen or heard of the ridiculous rumors floating around the Web ad nauseum about the alleged existence of "Planet X", the allegations that NASA never landed men on the moon but filmed the whole thing in a movie studio, etc. Well, for those of you who want some ammunition to shoot down this sort of nonsense, see http://www.badastronomy.com/. It's very entertaining, but also useful stuff. For those of you who haven't run into these offbeat loony rumors before, prepare to be entertained!

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Tamara
December 29, 2002, 10:59 AM
In the same vein, and perhaps more importantly, to discover the junk science that legislation which affects your freedom is based on, go to www.junkscience.com . "All the junk that's fit to debunk".

redhead
December 29, 2002, 11:08 AM
Thanks, Tamara. Great website. I haven't visited it for awhile. Too many people run their lives based on emotions, not facts. It's the "but we have to do SOMETHING" syndrome, do something, even if it's wrong and useless. For instance, the Ballistic Fingerprinting proposal. It's moving along he** bent for leather in California. "But we have to do SOMETHING!". A study for the Cal. AG's office even shot down the ballistic fingerprinting, but the fools are going to try for the legislation anyway.

2nd Amendment
December 29, 2002, 11:11 AM
Take a close look at the storm over the moon landings. NASA is definitely in up to its eyeballs in something less than honest. OTOH I don't think we failed to go to the moon, I simply think NASA reshot a lot of stuff and is now stuck between a rock and a hard place. Admit to "cleaning things up" and watch public opinion and their credibility dry up. Keep insisting nothing is wrong and lose credibility by degrees.

The folks at the badastronomy BB have had a lot of conflicts with some guy running a website devoted to the photographic evidence of at least some stage work. The thing is, while continuing to claim their debunking mastery they keep winding up calling him names and telling him to go away.

Personally I think the entire thing is rather hysterical. :D

redhead
December 29, 2002, 11:11 AM
Forgot to mention that i'd read about Planet X on Art Bell's website some months ago. I love Art Bell - I find his show to be hugely entertaingly at times. He has on the most bizarro guests. If one took them seriously, you'd be living in a deep bunker with your food, water, guns and ammo, and you probably still wouldn't survive!

12-34hom
December 29, 2002, 11:17 AM
Hell, they brought back some green cheese, what other proof is nessacary?

12-34hom.

RikWriter
December 29, 2002, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by 2nd Amendment
Take a close look at the storm over the moon landings. NASA is definitely in up to its eyeballs in something less than honest. OTOH I don't think we failed to go to the moon, I simply think NASA reshot a lot of stuff and is now stuck between a rock and a hard place. Admit to "cleaning things up" and watch public opinion and their credibility dry up. Keep insisting nothing is wrong and lose credibility by degrees.

The folks at the badastronomy BB have had a lot of conflicts with some guy running a website devoted to the photographic evidence of at least some stage work. The thing is, while continuing to claim their debunking mastery they keep winding up calling him names and telling him to go away.

Personally I think the entire thing is rather hysterical. :D

I think your post is a bit hysterical to be honest. Do you REALIZE how many scientists in how many countries had access to those images? Do you REALIZE how big a coup it would have been for, say, the Soviets to claim the US moon landings were faked?
The idea that anything about the moon landings was faked and just now it happens that a few fringe whackso who've never accomplished a single thing on their own in their life would "catch" it is so ludicrous that it's hardly worth arguing about.

2nd Amendment
December 29, 2002, 01:34 PM
Sometimes I wonder if you ever actually read anything, Rik.

I don't believe the landings were faked.

There have been questions about certain images since the very first landing. The questions have been dismissed with the same explanations...until those explanations have been debunked and then new explanations have been manufactured.

There is nothing the least bit hysterical about the idea government would "polish" things for public consumption. It is, in fact, pretty much the history of government in a nutshell.

What does the number of individuals involved have to do with anything? How many people does it take to stage a photograph? And how many people in the huge enterprise that was the space program actually ever looked at every single photograph, had the technical knowledge or personal experience to think something might be wrong AND the inclination to even consider it?

The truly hysterical thing is that there are still people who can be involved in RKBA who will then blindly consider everything else the government pukes up as Gospel. Government does stupid things, thinking it can never be caught because of the resources and intimidation factor. Then government spends years dashing around in circles swearing it hasn't done anything, only to eventually admit it DID do some piddling little thing that nobody would have cared about had they admitted it in the first place. But, by the time the admission arrives, the Conspiracists have already gained so much steam that ANY vindication welds their credibility solid.

Government shooting itself in the foot over non-issues is what I find hysterical. Almost as much so as you still jumping on my case when you haven't got a clue what I'm talking about. Continue that TFL tradition.

RikWriter
December 29, 2002, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by 2nd Amendment
Sometimes I wonder if you ever actually read anything, Rik.


Typical strategy---I disagree with you, therefore I must not have read what you said.


I don't believe the landings were faked.


Now who's not reading? I never said you did believe it. You said you thought some of the images were re-done. I told you why that was so unlikely as to be nearly impossible.


There have been questions about certain images since the very first landing.


Really? Show me a site where a reputable source has questioned the images then.


The questions have been dismissed with the same explanations...until those explanations have been debunked and then new explanations have been manufactured.


Please show me a reputable source that has "debunked" the explanations.


There is nothing the least bit hysterical about the idea government would "polish" things for public consumption. It is, in fact, pretty much the history of government in a nutshell.


There is no such monlithic entity as "the government." There are myriad agencies staffed by a variety of different workers, some appointed, some civil service, plus all those different elected officials and judges. They don't move in one way in some monstrous union, despite what you may think. A decision to fake images from the moon landings would have had to have come from the highest source (Johnson or Nixon depending on which landing) and would have involved a LOT of different people. There is no way in hell it would have remained secret for long.


What does the number of individuals involved have to do with anything? How many people does it take to stage a photograph?


You really DON'T read what I say, do you? The number of people involved matters because the greater the number the greater the chance that someone would discover if any images were faked. And it would take quite a few VERY competent people to fake an image from the moon landing to the point where 30 years later no one had definitively proven it.



And how many people in the huge enterprise that was the space program actually ever looked at every single photograph, had the technical knowledge or personal experience to think something might be wrong AND the inclination to even consider it?


It wasn't JUST the people IN the program---those images were out there for public consumption. It was the entire scope of the scientific community in every single country, including the Soviet Union.


The truly hysterical thing is that there are still people who can be involved in RKBA who will then blindly consider everything else the government pukes up as Gospel.


What is hysterical is that there are still people who can believe in some vast government-wide conspiracy that has been kept secret for decades when the various government agencies and elected bodies can't even keep things secret for WEEKS much less years.


Government does stupid things, thinking it can never be caught because of the resources and intimidation factor.


Right...but they ARE caught. And they WOULD have been caught TWENTY YEARS AGO if they had actually faked images from the moon landings.


Government shooting itself in the foot over non-issues is what I find hysterical. Almost as much so as you still jumping on my case when you haven't got a clue what I'm talking about. Continue that TFL tradition.

And you are continuing your internet-wide tradition of spreading conspiracy theories then attacking those that question them.

JackM
December 29, 2002, 01:47 PM
I'd be very surprised if:
- the Russians weren't monitoring the Apollo missions as closely as NASA.
- didn't know the exact location of every spacecraft involved from lift-off to spash-down.
- wouldn't have yelled bloody murder if NASA had faked anything.

Bye
Jack

4v50 Gary
December 29, 2002, 01:48 PM
Neither legal nor political or even remotely firearms related.

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