[cameramonkey]

Thanks for all of the many responses to my other post here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93877
All of the information has been very helpful. I decided to post a poll to help me decide what to purchase. I know may of you use the 9mm on various design platforms (each thinking theirs is the best ;)), but I have narrowed mine to 3 handguns. I'd like the gun to serve in the following manner: IDPA, personal defense, and nightstand gun. It must be reliable w/ personal defense ammunition.

[Tango Sierra]

I chose the CZ over the Sig mainly because I like the grip angle better. The Sig is better looking and both shoot well.

[9x19]

For me the Glock 19 is the best compromise in terms of size, weight, capacity, ease of use, out-of-the-box reliability, durability, consistency, and ease of maintenance.

[rbuck82]

I chose the Glock because of the three, it's the only one I wouldn't worry about too much as far as banging it up, keeping it oiled and worrying about it going bang when you need it to. If it's for IDPA, you'll find Glock armorer's all over and if it's for home defense, it won't be out of commission long if something goes wrong. But just the same, all three are excellent choices. Probably the three I'd consider myself if I were in your shoes.

[bradvanhorn]

I also chose the CZ, again due to the better grip angle and more natural "pointability" for me. I have only one objection with the CZ, and that is the traditional double/single trigger. I wish CZ made a P-01 with a manual safety vice the decocker, so I could carry cocked and locked.

However, I think what 9x19 and rbuck82 mentioned about the Glock 19 is very true. I have only one objection with the Glock, but it is in an area that is quite important to me. The Glock grip angle is very unnatural for me, and for that reason it is my second choice.

Fortunately, I have both a CZ 75 P-01 and a Glock 19, so I can take out whichever I prefer at that moment. I haven't taken exact measurements, but by comparing them side by side, they appear basically the same length, width, height and weight. So, there really is no advantage to either in the measurements arena.

Good Luck!

[STORMIN29]

I am waiting for the HK P2000SK. It seems like an excellent carry weapon.

[Mannlicher]

Does my CZ75D PCR qualify as a compact? If so, then that is the one I would chose.

[cameramonkey]

Hey bradvanhorn, how does the CZ P-01 handle hollow points? Have you tried various loads?

[cratz2]

Three good guns, though the SIG feels much blockier to my hands and I would not personally consider it in the future (I owned a 229).

Between the G19 and the P-01, I'd go for the P-01 though I could happily live with either. The P-01 should definately have a better trigger, I think the ergonomics are better on the CZ and it's plenty light weight. I do like the uber-low bore axis of the Glock though. The big thing is the CZ will probably be cheaper than even a used Glock in most areas.

[Black Majik]

Ooooh great choices...

This is gonna be tough.

For me, I find the CZ's difficult to rack the slide because of the short height of the slide.

so for me the CZ is out.

Between the P228 and the Glock 19, if you're gonna carry the gun, then Glock 19, if not... the P228.

Personally to shoot, I like the P228 more, but for a carry gun, its difficult to beat the Glock 19.

Glock did right when they came out with the compact Glocks. They fit my hand really well.

....if only they produced a steel framed Glock.... :o

[bradvanhorn]

cameramonkey - I haven't done a hollow-point test with my P-01 yet. I don't rely on it as a home defense or CCW gun just yet, but I suppose I should do an ammo test sometime soon. I've spent the last ten days solely with my Beretta while working up for my annual qualification, which was this morning (I was high shooter :D ). So, now that I can return to my CZ's, maybe I'll do some ammo tests this weekend when I venture back to the range. In hollow-points I shoot mostly Winchester Ranger-T and Remington Golden Sabre, and both have been reliable in every gun I've fired those rounds through. I'll let you know if I come up with any info for you.

[cameramonkey]

Thanks bradvanhorn. I look foward to it. :)

[Zan]

Is the G19 a compact? I'll go easily with the CZ P-01

[rauchman]

Wow, I'm very surprised the Sig isn't rating higher. Any of the 3 are great choices. While I have tried a P-01, I do have a CZ75 SA in .40 and it's one of my favorites. I'd have to go with the Sig though. Amazing pointability, accuracy and reliability.

[PCRCCW]

All of them are very close to the same size....the Glock is probably the most compact out of them all. The Sig and Cz are very very close in everything except the gizmo rail adding thickness to it.
Id go with the CZ/Glock/Sig.................all are very good guns.
Shoot well.

[Jiml3]

To bradvanhorn;

From your earlier post, you have the CZ p101 and wish it had a decocker so
you could carry cocked and locked. I'm not that familar with the P101 but I
do have it's forerunner the CZ75 PCR and it has a decocker and to my preference no light rail. If you look around, some are still available While I don't
carry cocked and locked, I prefer guns with a decocker. Overall, I believe
the P101 and the PCR are essentially the same gun.

[Craig M. Arnold]

CZ P01 by far. It fits my hand perfectly. My P01 will eat anything that I put in the magazine.

[ckyllo]

have you shot any of the 3 choices? there have many times I thought "this is a great gun" than after shooting it there was no warm fuzzy feeling. find a range with rentals or a friend with one and put a box through each. It is alot cheaper in the long run than buying the wrong gun. of the 3 they are all great choices and with factory ammo and factory mags you will most likely never have one fail on you. also buy a box of protection ammo and fire some shots through each gun also to make sure they feed right.

[clipse]

Hey bradvanhorn, how does the CZ P-01 handle hollow points? Have you tried various loads?


My P-01 has ate every thing I have thrown in it(including various JHP's in 115, 124, and 147 grain variety) and it just keeps on tickin. It is my CCW gun. I wear it with a IWB holster from HBE leatherworks. It is more accurate than I, and it just has the 'cool' feel about it.

I voted CZ P-01. I love this little gun.


clipse

[bradvanhorn]

Jiml3 - Sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't want a decocker, which the P-01 does in fact have. I would rather the gun had a manual safety.
The P-01 and the PCR are quite similar, but my understanding is they are in fact manufactured differently (forged vs cast frame, the light rail, etc.)

[clipse]

The P-01 and the PCR are quite similar, but my understanding is they are in fact manufactured differently (forged vs cast frame, the light rail, etc.)

Thats correct. The PCR has a cast frame while the P-01 is forged. The lightrail is another difference and the newly recurved trigger. (I like the new trigger alot.) You can see the difference in the triggers in the below pic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/clipse/trigger.jpg

The sights are different as well. The P-01 has the tradition CZ sights while the PCR has a low-profile snag free sights.


clipse

[Black Snowman]

The PCR is actually a forged frame as well but uses a differant alloy or heat treatment. CZ is pretty vauge just saying that the P-01 uses "better metalurgy" when pressed on the issue.

If you don't like the decocker (like me) try to find a CZ 85 Compact (like I did). The steel frame is heavier, and it's a .40, but you'd never know you had a bigger caliber by shooting it. The extra weight on the nose really tames the recoil.

FYI: My local gunstore The Bullet Hole (http://www.thebullethole.com) has 2 P-01s in stock. One used and one new.

[ruger357]

Just bought a Glock 19 and am very impressed with it.

[clipse]

The PCR is actually a forged frame as well but uses a differant alloy or heat treatment. CZ is pretty vauge just saying that the P-01 uses "better metalurgy" when pressed on the issue.

Thats wierd because Mike from CZ told me that the PCR was cast. Maybe they've changed in the last 8 months. http://www.missouricarry.com/forums/images/smiles/shrug.gif

[Spieler]

I only have limited experience with the G19 and P228, but I would have to opt fot the P228. Quality, reliability, reputation, firepower (w/pre-ban mags), fit, finish and feel.

[Black Snowman]

Hmm, well, Mike should know being the CZ USA gunsmith and all but someone on CZF said at the SHOT show that the CZ rep said all the alloy frames were forged, but not all with the same process. I guess it's still up in the air although I'd be more likely to trust Mike. :confused:

[denfoote]

Although, my choice would be the Walther P5, the Glock will serve you very well!!

[jrpeterman]

I voted the Glock 19 because that is what I own. Any of the 3 would make an excellent choice. I think the Glock 19 is the simplest of the 3 to operate and has the most durable finish. I wouldn't sneeze at the SIG P228 or the CZ PO-1. I wouldn't mind adding either to my gun safe.

[Berg01]

Three really good choices; I own the P228 so thats my choice.

[Mastrogiacomo]

Glock 19 -- light weight, cheap money, excellent shoot....and you don't have to worry about holsters or finish.

[Zan]

P-01 one of the best NEW tactical pistols ever made.

Here's why (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92636&perpage=25&pagenumber=3)

[incursion]

I don't have any experience with the CZ, but between the SIG and the Glock, I would choose the Glock.

[Kaz_67]

I haven't had a chance to shoot the P-01 yet. If it shoots like a CZ then it should be a good one. I still have a G19, the P228 had to go. I respect Sigs a whole lot, just can't learn to like them. I'm one of those die hard Glock guys so that's my pick. You guys got me curious about the P-01 though. How does the DA/SA trigger compare to the Sig?

[Greg Bell]

1. Sig
2. CZ
3. Sell Glock, buy a Sig.

[bradvanhorn]

cameramonkey,

I tested some hollow points in my P-01 tonight, and all functioned perfectly. I don't often shoot much in the way of hollow points, since I really don't feel justified spending hundreds of dollars "testing" them. However, with my carry guns, I will normally try to shoot 50 to 100 rds of whatever I choose to carry, so I know that round will function in the gun.

For example, when testing ammo for my Kimber Custom CDP, my current carry gun, I shot 100 rds of Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP (RA45T) and 100rds of the same in +p (RA45TP). Both functioned fine, and I settled on the RA45T.

Tonight I shot the following ammo and in this order:

20 rds Federal American Eagle 124gr FMJ
25 rds Georgia Arms 147gr Lead
25 rds Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP
25 rds Remington Golden Saber 124gr JHP
25 rds Remington Golden Saber 124gr +p JHP
20 rds Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP
20 rds Winchester Ranger-T 127gr +p+ JHP


The 147gr Golden Saber was my favorite to shoot, although I normally keep my 9s loaded with the 127gr +p+ Ranger-T. The 147gr Golden Saber was soft shooting, and was just as accurate as any of the ammo I fired. The 127gr +p+ Ranger-T, and surprisingly the 147gr Gold Dot, were the two most abusive rounds to shoot; though it's a stretch to really call them "abusive".

Although my round counts were low by some peoples standards, I'd be comfortable loading the gun with any of the JHPs I tested.

Now the really hard part - I think I may have to change my mind and recommend the Glock 19. I fired 50rds of PMC 115gr FMJ through my Glock 19 after I finished shooting the CZ P-01. This is the first time I've fired them side-by-side, and I'm going to take both guns back to the range and do it again tomorrow. I must say, I was left with the impression the Glock was softer shooting, and as a result was both faster and more comfortable than the CZ. I really don't like double/single triggers, and that had me messed up with the CZ. Glock triggers aren't great, but this one gave me no noticeable trouble. The CZ definitely points more naturally for me, but I adjusted rapidly to the Glock and was shooting faster and just as accurately as I was with the CZ. The ammo could have been part of the perceived difference, but I'll know more tomorrow when I shoot them again.

You've narrowed your choice down to three great guns; good luck picking just one...

[cameramonkey]

Wow! Great reponse. Thanks mucho bradvanhorn! I'm going to be heading off to ye Old Gun shop later this week and I'll be sure to let you know what I get. I've pretty much narrowed it between the Glock and the CZ P-01 (mostly due to cost). I went and shot the Glock and the Sig again. I actually shot the Glock better. Many complain about the Glock's weird grip angle. Well, I must be weird because it fit me just right. My groups were better w/ the G19. I don't know why. The Sig was good, but between the 2, the 19 was just a better fit for my hand. Now I know why people suggest to try shooting the pistol before you buy it.

The shop has the Glock and the CZ in stock, so I'll be sure to compare them. I just wish I could shoot the P-01 before my purchase. But thanks for the great info. I REALLY appreciate it, and I know others who are interested in the P-01 are as well.

[DHart]

You call those choices compact? Hey, I'm surprised no one's chimed in about the Kahr 9mm offerings... they're magnificent, superb quality little autos. The PM-9 is my choice for smallest and lightest pistol I would trust my life to. I'd vote the Kahr P9 as the next up in size from the PM-9. From there up to the next size/weight class I guess there are other worthy brands to consider along with Kahr (those mentioned), but for really small, nothing touches the Kahr nines in my opinion.

[Greg Bell]

PM-9 is what I actually tend to have on me.

[Kaz_67]

As good as it is, I'm not sure the PM9 would be a great pick for IDPA though. That was one of the requirements. I like the K9 and P9 but that PM9 has a really dinky grip on it. I can shoot the sub Glocks just fine but thats only because the grip has more meat on it.
cameramonkey, I grew up shooting a Ruger .22 and a SW M19. First time I picked up a Glock, it felt natural to me. I have to re-adjust for most other pistols.

[Greg Bell]

s good as it is, I'm not sure the PM9 would be a great pick for IDPA though.

:D :D :D

[DHart]

Now that I think a little more about it, I realize that the original idea of the thread really didn't include sub-compacts, just compacts... sorry, my bad. I realize that the COmpact category does not include Kahrs... well, perhaps the T9, if any of them. My Kahr post more appropriately belongs in a thread titled 9mm SUB-compact choice!

[bradvanhorn]

Just some additional food for thought...

I have two Glock 19s, one 2nd generation and one 3rd generation. Unless you're really into finger grooves and light rails, which I'm not, in my opinion the 2nd generation is the better gun. Even better, I got my 2nd generation Glock for $325 through Gunbroker.com, and the gun was basically NIB (vs $524 out the door for my 3rd gen.)!

The grip angle thing with Glocks is a really big deal for some, and not even noticeable to others. I prefer to be able to pick up a gun, point it, and find the sights are in natural alignment. I've found CZs and 1911s are most natural for me; the Glock definitely isn't. However, if I turn my wrist down about 1/4" or so, then the Glock is in alignment. I can't adequately discuss or justify my theory here, but I think that little turn of the wrist may help with recoil management, which is why I think the Glock may feel softer shooting. Anyway, the grip angle may not be perfect at first grab, but with the slight wrist adjustment, the gun is right where it should be.

As for fit in the hand, I've found the Glock fits my hand well, and feels in some regards better than the P-01. Because of the way I grip the gun, I actually prefer square-ish front straps, so this favors the Glock design. The P-01 has a very round front strap, and I've found that sometimes causes my grip to slip more easily (though skateboard tape helps cure this problem).

Good Luck!

[bradvanhorn]

I shot my CZ P-01 and Glock 19 side-by-side today. I fired 50 rds of Winchester 115gr FMJ Range Ammo through each gun, alternating 10 rds through the CZ then 10 rds through the Glock. I had this thought yesterday, and I confirmed it today - the ammo makes the difference. Felt recoil and muzzle flip was basically identical between the two guns. As always the CZ pointed more naturally for me, so it was more accurate simply because I could stay on the target more easily. The CZ could use a good trigger job, but nevertheless it remains my 1st choice.

[Tamara]

My heart says the P-228. I love the way they fit my hand. I love the way they balance. I love the cool 'ka-chick' of the decocker.

My head says the Glock. (I tend to shoot it better at speed & under stress, and a flashlight rail might be a good thing if you're planning on using it as a nightstand gun.)

[Marko Kloos]

All three are fine weapons.

The Glock is the lightest, the most corrosion-proof, and the one with the highest capacity of the three. Both the SIG and the CZ fit my hand better than the Glock. The CZ in particular fits my hand like nothing else.

However, the G19 is just damn hard to beat as an all-around package. It's ugly, utilitarian, and soulless, but it's also one of the top 9mm carry guns of all time.

[Litlman]

I like the po-1 but am thinking of getting a compact 75 for C&L , in the satin nickle. I would consider the new 85 compact if it came in 9mm. Good luck.