Llama 1911 clone


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texengland
July 30, 2004, 02:09 AM
I've seen the good and bad reviews of the other Llama pistols, but not much on this one. Anybody have any experiances with it?

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chevrofreak
July 30, 2004, 03:50 AM
One of the guys that shoots action pistol with us shoots a Llama 1911. It jams less than any of the other 1911's guys bring up.

Okiecruffler
July 30, 2004, 09:57 AM
I bought one in an impulse buy a little while back, was completely reliable. As long as you only loaded 5 rounds in the mag and made sure they were hardball. Made a pretty effective singleshot if you loaded it with hollowpoints. If nothing else, I got alot of practice in FTF drills. But I have heard good things, maybe I just got a bad one.

vwfool
July 30, 2004, 12:08 PM
I think that they are okay. My dad seems to agree, and he shot the snot out of them when he lived in Spain.

Don't be shocked or offended if some diehard 1911'r points out that:
:fire: The :cuss: Llama is NOT a 1911 clone!! Why do people keep saying that.:banghead: Why!:banghead: Why!:banghead:


Everybody I have known that had them liked them.

BryanP
July 30, 2004, 12:24 PM
I know exactly one person who owns one. He's never had any problems with it. Believe me, he's the picky type - if it gave him reliability problems I'd have heard about it.

Snowdog
July 30, 2004, 12:25 PM
I like my .45acp Llama Minimax, but that's because it works. I have a friend who has issues with his Llama chambered in .38super. That's supposedly the norm for this manufacturer... it's a gamble.

mondocomputerman
July 30, 2004, 12:45 PM
Why is Llama not a 1911 clone. Does the outside appearence look similar?

WTM
July 30, 2004, 02:18 PM
I know a local FFL who's owned one for a number of years and loves it. Says it has never been a problem. He'll sell you what you want but will always encourage folks to give the Llama a serious thought before buying something more expensive. WTM

Smoke
July 30, 2004, 03:07 PM
Really poor sights, grittiest feel, finicky about mags and ammo, lousy fit and finish, cheap. What's not to like? :scrutiny:

Bought one and traded it. Went temporarily insane and bought another a few years later, traded it off too. Looked at one a dealer got in recently....cycled the slide and ...handed it right back. :barf:

But don't let me influence you.

Smoke

mpthole
July 30, 2004, 03:19 PM
A buddy has one and its a POS. As soon as he sells it he'll be picking up something else... maybe a SA mil-spec.

WTM
July 30, 2004, 04:45 PM
P.S. to my earlier posting about the dealer and the Llama. I forgot to include "I bought a Colt because that was what I had carried for 7 years while in the army."

P5 Guy
July 30, 2004, 09:37 PM
A guy shooting next to me at the Dade Rod and Gun Club had a small one in .45ACP. He did not get one full magazine through it and the extracter broke. He said it was new.

vwfool
July 31, 2004, 01:40 AM
Mondocomputerman,

At a distance almost anybody would say that it is a 1911. The ones I have messed with had the same controls in generaly the same spot, but the slide and grip were a little bit different. The grip was fatter. The slide looked like it had a vent rib on top of it; although, the slots were filled in and not really vented.

tarrigoni
July 31, 2004, 02:38 AM
my extractor broke in the first full magazine.

when I got it fixed, I had no problems with it and it was actually pretty accurate.

7677
August 3, 2004, 03:10 PM
I have one of the older Llamas and after some fluff and buff it is reliable and I haven't found a HP it won't shoot.

Jim K
August 3, 2004, 09:13 PM
I have looked at several of the newer Llamas, and cannot recommend them. One was brought to me because it was inaccurate. Off a rest, the best I could do was around 10-12 inches at 25 yards. I found the barrel with lots of file marks; it just flopped around in the slide and frame, with play on both sides and the top as well. Almost all the internals showed file marks where parts were made to fit, hardly a sign of high quality production. The others were more accurate, but still were sloppy and showed the same type of hand work in assembly. One (like the ones mentioned) had extractor problems but replacing the extractor cured the problem.

All of them looked and felt good, were nicely blued and from the outside looked to be well made. The only one I fired more than a few shots from (the "tight" group pistol) worked OK for 50 rounds.

Jim

yayarx7
August 4, 2004, 12:30 PM
The one I had the slide metal was way too soft. After about 200 rounds the bushing caused peening, and the firing pin would stick. I sent it in under warrenty and they ground down the mushroomed part of the slide and sent it back to me.

I traded it for a Norinco, best deal I ever made.

FPrice
October 14, 2004, 09:32 AM
One of my local dealers has a Llama .45ACP for $300. It looks good from the outside (see Jim Keenan's comments above) but that seems to be it. I was going to offer him $200 and see what happens but after reading this thread I think I'll pass.

wally
October 14, 2004, 09:42 AM
I'll never understand how Llama survives while Star and Astra went belly up. Star and Astra made good guns that generally worked, although Astra's often had problems with the sights getting loose after a few hundred rounds, Star's tended to be heavy for their size, but were otherwise good.

--wally.

7677
October 15, 2004, 12:20 PM
wally,
From what I've heard the reason that Llama is still around is because Bersa bought them out. The Llama I looked at yesterday appeared to well built. The frame and feed ramp actually matched up which was a common problem with earlier Llamas. I wouldn't trade my Llama 45 for any other 45 out there because it shoots to point of aim and it is 100% reliable with any hollow point out there. However, if I was in the market for a 1911 the Llama would not be on the top of my list because of compatibility issues with other 1911s. This problem has lessened in the past few years but one still has to custom fit ambi safeties and other parts because no one makes them for the Llamas.

nitesite
October 15, 2004, 02:31 PM
The plunger tube was made of black plastic on the two I have examined, and was glued to the frame.

The thumb safety had to be dremel-tooled to get it to drop back down from safe. That's how we found the plunger tube was plastic. The tubes opening was ovalled from us trying to press the safety down. Man that plunger sure did wiggle a lot in the hole! All this during the first week it was in our posession.

7677
October 15, 2004, 04:27 PM
nitesite,
Plastic plunger tubes are not new to Llamas. My gun has one and it is screwed not glued to the frame, but I have no doubt they are now glued. When I first got my llama the stock plunger tube cracked and I had to replace it. I'm not the greatest fan of plastic plunger tubes but I have had my Llama for over 14 years and I've only had one break so far. If had to estimate how many rounds I've fired through it I'd have to say some where around 10 to 15 thousand. My gun was definitely not reliable with hollow points out of the box and it took some work to get my gun to the point it is now. Like I said earlier, I would trade my Llama but if I was in the market for a new 1911 it wouldn't be a Llama. They can be made in to reliable weapon but it takes the know how and with the vast choices available today why bother when for a few dollars more you can a 1911 that is reliable out of the box.

nitesite
October 15, 2004, 07:26 PM
Yes, that plunger tube was held by a screw now that I think of it. I remember my friend super-gluing it as well as screwing it back onto his frame after getting a replacement.

Thanks for reminding me!

I didn't say anything in my earlier post about it, but his shot nearly 100% when i was around, only a very few stovepipes did I ever see.

nitesite

cls12vg30
November 22, 2004, 12:50 AM
I just picked up a Llama Micromax .380, it's a mini-1911 style, in a stainless finish. I felt at the time of purchase I was sort of going out on a limb, having not done much research into the brand. So far I have to say I am pleased with the purchase. I have about 100 rounds through it, it has jammed a couple times on HP's, but I have polished the feed ramp, and as I put more rounds through it I expect this problem may clear up, we'll have to see.

I'm not sure exactly how old my Llama is, it was sold as used but it is obviously very slightly used. The left side of te slide reads, "Fabrinor Vitoria (Espana)" and also has a winged crest with the letters "FAE", which I have heard may stand for "Fuerza Aeronauitica Ecuadoria", or Ecuadorian Air Force, which it seems use the .380 Micromax as a standard issue sidearm. Maybe someone here can confirm or refute this for me, I'm a bit curious.

The fit and finish on the pistol seem very good, and the trigger feels fantastic, and in that 100 rounds it was quite accurate, on par with my Bulgie Makarov at 10 yards. The plunger is not metal, not plastic, and the only part of the gun with any play in it at all is the grip safety, which is to be expected and does not affect its functioning.

The 3-white dot sights are quite good, even better since I filled in the dots with orange Bright Sights paint. My only problem with aiming the gun is that the thumbrest grip (required by importation law) tends to cause my hand to naturally point the gun to the left, but with practice I will get over that.

Like I said, we'll see how it holds up, and changes over the next couple hundred rounds, but right now all I can say is that it's beautiful, feel great in my hand. It's an interesting departure from the ComBloc weapons I'm used to.

horge
November 22, 2004, 07:58 PM
cls12vg30,

Llama Micromax 380's built before 2000 bore the rollmark "Gabilondo y Cia"
Those built from 2000 to 2003 bore the rollmark "Fabrinor Vitoria"
New ones carry "Fabrinor Legutiano"


Gabilondo & Co. went under, and their master gunsmiths got together to buy it from the bankrupt owners, via their new cooperative 'Fabrinor'. From 2000 to 2003, Fabrinor used the old factory in Vitoria, while a new one was being completed in nearby Legutiano.

I've posted here many times --to many disbelieving-- that there is noticeable change in the quuality of LLama pistols, ever since it was finally owned by those who actually MAKE and use the guns. The difference is particularly keen in products out of the new factory.

BERSA in Argentina, LLAMA in Spain, Armscor in the Philippines, Tanfoglio in Italy, and Auto-Ordnance in the US, among others, all have old (and bad) reputations to overcome, and if they could somehow get rid of all the old and inferior stock out there, and replace it with new, it would be easier.

cls12vg30
November 23, 2004, 01:13 AM
Wow, great info, horge. So am I to understand from your post that, since my Llama is marked "Fabrinor Vitoria", that it was made between 2000 and 2003, after the gunsmiths gained control of the company, but before they moved into the new factory? I'm not sure what to read from that from a quality standpoint.

Do you know anything about the winged "FAE" crest?

horge
November 23, 2004, 03:50 AM
Hi,
I'm fairly confident the rollmarked SLIDE left the factory in that time period, hehe. Some of the other components may have come from excess stock parts that Gabilondo left behind.

FAE likely stands for Fuerza Aerea Ecuatoriana (Ecuadoran Air Force), one of the better-equipped Air Forces in South America, and I've heard of Llama Micromax 380's bearing the FAE mark. I've never actually seen an example, and would appreciate a photo of said mark

The FAE crest/seal looks like this
http://mabma.thereeftank.com/postpics/fae_crest.jpg
although the actual mark on the firearm may be different.


hth,
and if you can provide a photo, great! :)

-horge

Ash
November 23, 2004, 09:26 AM
I had a widebody Llama .45 perhaps 8 years ago. It held perhaps 13 rounds and was utterly reliable (never a failure). But, it wasn't very accurate. I couldn't hit a thing with it, except perhaps at point blank.

What happened in Spain that Astra, Star, and Llama all went under?

Ash

cls12vg30
November 23, 2004, 11:12 AM
Astra and Star merged and then tragically went down together. Llama is still in business, as Horge described, with a new factory and the gunsmiths in control of the company. Though the demise of Star especially is depressing, at least things are looking promising for Spain's oldest gunmaker.

As requested, here's a pic of the right side of my MMX:
http://www.v6-s12.com/Linked_Images/Gun/Llama_1.jpg

And here's a closeup of the FAE mark, sorry it's not that clear, perhaps tonight I can use my camera's Macro mode to get a better closeup, this one is just cropped from the image above and blown up. If you squint you can just barely make out the letters FAE along the top edge of the shield.
http://www.v6-s12.com/Linked_Images/Gun/Llama_FAE_Crest.jpg

And Horge, I just checked out this (http://www.ccm.net/~jsruiz/FAE_Principio.htm) unofficial FAE site. You aren't kidding about them being well-equipped for a South American airforce. Mirage F1's, Kfirs, Jaguars, all impressive aircraft, though the Jag is definitely past its prime.

horge
November 23, 2004, 06:26 PM
Thanks for the photo!
It's not quite a perfect match for the FAE wings I've seen (no copy, sorry), where the shield banding is diagonal, rather than horizontal... but I could be wrong. Those are certainly the correct number of bands for the Ecudorian flag, though.


Re: STAR, ASTRA and LLAMA

For a time, there were three major Spanish pistol-brands made in one relatively small region of Spain:

STAR (Bonifacio Echevarria S.A.)
ASTRA (Esperanza y Unceta, later Societa Unceta y Cia, and then Astra-Unceta y Cia)
LLAMA (Gabilondo y Cia)

Financial transparency is not the best in Spain, and unknown to many, all three companies were heavily in debt to Spanish banks.

In the early 90's Banco Santander, Banco de Bilbao Vizcaya and other Spanish banks invested heavily in the 'Asian Economic Miracle', and lost a lot of money in the regional economic crash that followed. Short of cash, the banks turned the screws on any European companies which owed them money, and that group included the three Spanish pistolmakers.

Apparently, STAR ran for cover by seeking receivership under its rival ASTRA which as it later turned out, wasn't in such good shape either, and for similar reasons that affected Star. ASTRA (with Star) went completely under in 1997.

ASTRA's employees tried to set up a cooperative to take over the company, but they took out too many large loans (just like their former employers) towards a too-ambitious relaunch, upgrade and retool, and soon, once again, protection was sought under Spain's 'bankruptcy' laws. Much of the companies' assets were seized and sold off. Some old STAR employees set up IPAR guns, an outfit specializing in gunsmithing and target pistols. Other STAR and ASTRA employees went to work for a new company, ASTAR (Agrupacion Social Trabajadores Armeros, SAL), turning out pistols that look very similar to the old STAR's, but they're really just lookalikes.

LLAMA had actually filed for 'bankruptcy' the earliest of the three, in 1992. At the time, the Asian Economy wasn't in full tailspin yet, so the banks gave LLAMA less oppressive repayment terms.

The following year (1993) 60 of LLAMA's employees set up a cooperative to try to take over the company. They went slow and steady, minimizing any additional financial exposure, and by year 2000, they secured the Llama name. That cooperative, the new company making Llama pistols, is named Fabrinor Corta y Microfusion, and for a while operated out of the decrepit Llama factory in Vitoria, but recently relocated to a new facility (with all of the upgrades and retooling that Star and Astra employees had tried to get cold turkey) in nearby Legutiano, Gojain. A lot of ex-employees of Star and Astra now work at LLAMA.

Many pistol brands the world over have gone under, while others have gotten by on good product, like BERSA, and on careful management, like LLAMA.

New brands have also cropped up in this world, some of them foully. IM METAL, now HS Produkt d.o.o. (same guys who invented and make Springfield XD pistols), was partly built by Serbian collaborators using dirty money from the massacre of Bosnian Muslims, though most of those directly involved have since been brought to (street) justice.

There are other sad stories behind a number of popular pistol brands.
There are inspiring tales behind many others.
Pistols, good and bad, are still made and sold...

and the world still turns.

cls12vg30
November 24, 2004, 08:38 PM
Wow! Talk about a wealth of information! Where did you find all that, horge? I can guess that you must have an affinity or special interest in the Spanish pistols....are you sure your name shouldn't be spelled Jorge? ;)

Well like I said, despite the mixed reviews, my Micromax, which seems to have been made after the employee takeover but in the old Vitoria factory, has given me little to complain about so far, other than the typical 1911 distaste for hollowpoints. Apparently Cor-bon doesn't make PowRBall in .380, too bad, that would solve the problem. I think I'll try some Hornady XTP or Winchester Silvertips, they are machined much more smoothly in the nose than the Silver Bear JHP's I had problems with at the range. I also ordered a new recoil spring here, (http://www.yourgunparts.com/micromax380_SC_parts.htm)
for the price of $2.50. (That site has Llama parts for even cheaper than I can get Makarov parts!)

Aside from the HP issue, the quality and fit-and-finish on the Llama seems to be quite good, the action is tight, and the trigger smooth. And I am quite pleased with how a fraction of an inch in width and a few ounces differences between the Mmx and the Makarov translate into a more comfortable and easy-to-conceal carry gun.

horge
November 24, 2004, 11:51 PM
H. Cortes Jorge Jr. at your service.

:D

Pilot
November 25, 2004, 09:26 AM
Great info Jorge. Thanks, that was interesting reading. I have an older Llama .380. I bought it on a wim as its is a really cute 1911 style pistol, only small and in .380. It was imported by Stoeger and is marked GABILONDO Y CIA VITORIA (Espana). I don't know the age, because I bought it used about 10 years ago. Obvioulsy its from the original company in the original factory. Seems to be pretty well made and its been 100% reliable. I don't shoot it much, but when I do it works fine.

cls12vg30
January 17, 2005, 01:46 AM
UPDATE: I was at another Raleigh gun show this weekend and the seller whom I bought the MicroMax from in November was there with some more, including a primo satin chrome-finish example, form the new Ligutiano factory. I happenes to have my Llama out in the car so after a bit of negotiation I traded the above-mentioned Micromax from the Vitoria plant (plus a little $$) on a factory-fresh Legutiano-made satin-chrome MicroMax. The finish on the old one had a few flaws, and from the FAE crest it was obviously used, whereas the new Llama is very obviously right out of the factory. It has the new chrome finish which has more of a "frost" to it, at least in its current brand-new condition. My first impression is that the metallurgy is better, just judging from the notch in the slide where the slide release catches. This area had started to deform on the other one.
In the two months since I bought my first Micromax, I had grown very fond of it, especially its lightness and narrow shape that make for a very comfortable carry weapon. Also, once I got use to it, the 1911-style action became second nature to me. I feel fortunate to have been able to trade it in on a new example from the updated factory (complete with the new Llama lifetime warranty). Obviously this example needs some range time as it is still a bit stiff.

Gunz
January 17, 2005, 10:26 PM
I also enjoyed Horge's history of the SPanish gun makers' plight. I own a Llama Model IX (9 I guess) 1911 style pistol. This was a poor boy's first buy for a 1911 style gun; note how I used "style" and not "clone." The extractor, grips, safety, trigger, release, etc. are all just a bit off the specs to prevent interchangeability of parts. The metal could be arguably softer than other 1911s. Mine is the Gabilondo Cia Vitoria model. It is so loose, it rattle when I shake it. I can field strip one handed, because the tolerance are so loose. All in all, I have had some fun plinking with this thing since I was a teen. I paid about $200 way back then, and it came with a nice blued finish which still lasts today. The main wear on the bluing is on the grip safety and the mainspring housing. I have always shot hardball through it, and I never even knew what accuracy was when I was plinking at cans and bottles. As long as I had ammo, and had a pleasant afternoon to kill time, that gun came with me. I felt safe with it. I has choked on hollowpoints, and at different times, with different brands. Still, I had the standby FMJs always loaded in that 1 factory magazine. By the way, regular 1911 mags do work in this Llama, and for the life of me, the cheapest, nasties, most surplus $4 mags you can find at a gun show will work in this loose gun. Go figure. Years later, with more income, and a better colletion and grade of 1911s, I still pull that Llama out and wipe it down with an oily rag, reminescing about the nostalgic moments of my youth, with an inexpensive gun, and a lot of good times. No need for status symbols with brand names..... :D

Gixerman1000
January 17, 2005, 10:37 PM
I have shot about 5 or so, all were inaccurate and very unreliable. I am sure there are a few that are ok but I wouldn't take the chance of buying one with my luck.

Walt Sherrill
January 18, 2005, 01:54 PM
I've got an older Llama, imported by Steoger in the late 70's or early 80's. In 9mm.

Nice gun. I've had some work done to it, and this one is apparently a very close clone, as many Ed Brown and Chip McCormick part work well in it.

Heavy. Very heavy. Fully ramped barrel. Nice trigger (thanks to some new parts and a good gunsmith.) Probably still have less than $350 in it after adding the new parts.

Very accurate.

I've have heard some real horror stories about Llamas, but this one isn't a chapter or footnote in THAT set of books.

BluesBear
January 19, 2005, 02:09 AM
The Llama semi-automatic pistols from the 40s, 50s and 60s were mostly pretty good. At least the ones I have handled and fired were.

Guns made in the 70s and 80s were iffy.
Seems like they had an awful lot of Monday and Friday guns.

I would avoid the 90s era although it's possible a good one slipped out by accident.

I have heard they are cleaning up their act pretty well and the new guns are much better but still not as good as the early early ones.


I also liked their revolvers from the early/mid 70s.

ftierson
January 19, 2005, 02:50 AM
I have a Llama MAX-I (.45ACP) that has been a great handgun. I had it Metalifed (hard chromed), and it's one of the most accurate and reliable handguns that I own.

I also have a Llama Mini-Max II and a Firestorm Mini Compact (which are, of course, essentially the same gun). Both are double stack compact .45ACPs. I have been very pleased with them as well.

I should probably also mention that I have always had good luck with Spanish handguns. I also have a couple of Astra Constables (in .22LR), Astra A-75s (in 9x19mmP and .45ACP), an Astra A-100 (in 9x19mmP), a Star PD (in .45ACP, which, to this day remains my primary carry gun), and a Star 30M (9x19mmP). I'm probably even forgetting one or two right now. In my opinion, these are all superior handguns that were purchased at dramatically reduced prices compared to comparable competing handguns.

countertop
January 24, 2005, 02:50 AM
I was looking at a Llama the other day but decided to skip it.

As far as Star goes - I've always liked the Star PD and considered it one of the best concealed carry guns ever. Its certainly near the to of my must buy list - though you should probably stick to the earlier versions and avoid ones that came out later, near the time of Stars demise..

Hawkmoon
January 24, 2005, 05:59 PM
This thread may be the place to get an answer to a puzzle, especially perhaps from Horge:

I've been aware of Llamas for some time, but less than a year ago I became aware of a new (?) brand -- Firestorm. They offer pretty much the exact same 1911 "style" pistols that Llama offers, and they are imported by the same importer in New Jersey. Both their web sites have a list of 1911 parts compatibility, and they read identically.

Are the Firestorms made in Spain by Llama? Or, as I've heard, are they made in Argentine by Bersa using tooling provided by Llama? More important, are they better than Llama, worse, or about the same?

horge
January 24, 2005, 07:47 PM
Hi Hawkmoon! :)

You're correct:
'Firestorm' is a fairly new brandname set up by the Sodini family, who also
own SGS Importers, Eagle Imports, Import Sports, yourgunparts, etc.

Firestorm has no manufacturing capability, so it subcontracts pistol manufacture
out overseas ---the designs just happen (hehe) to be almost cookie-cutter
lifts from existing models produced by the overseas manufacturers.
Many major US manufacturers do the same thing--sometimes importing
whole pre-fitted guns (albeit in kit form).

The 1911-style Firestorm pistols are made by Fabrinor (Llama) in Spain.
Pretty much all other Firestorm pistol models are made by BERSA in Argentina.
The pistols are imported as fitted kits, and then assembled by Firestorm in the US.

The Firestorm (Llama) pistols go though two pickets of QC: Fabrinor's and Firestorm's own...
so I would suppose the US-assembled Firestorm might have an edge in quality.

The Firestorm (BERSA) blasters also get the double check advantage,
although BERSA has already got pretty good QC going ... and some of the
designs shipped to Firestorm have long been superseded by newer versions in
the official BERSA product lineup.

Even if the Firestorm gun kits are only 'assembled' in the US,
at least the final-assembly jobs haven't been victim to outsourcing...
and yet the firearm remains reasonably-priced.


hth :)


PS: The Firestorm revolvers are made by Laserre S.A. in Avellaneda (Argentina).
Laserre markets its own revolvers under Rexio, Pucara and Jaguar model lines,
and has had a close relationship with Forjas Taurus of Brazil since the late 1990's.

Gifted
February 11, 2005, 03:42 AM
I was looking at one a the store. Seeing as it's currently brand new out of the box, that would make it new manufacture, and subject to the better standards? Looking at it, it had a decent trigger, the action on the thumb safety was pretty rough, he recommended a polish job on the insides, to smooth them up. This a good buy? He wanted about $270 for it.

on_target
April 6, 2005, 07:39 PM
I recently purchased the MiniMax in .40 cal. Been having much problems with the feed. I was once told that having the ramp polished would help and another told me that it would not work and get rid of it. Anyone have any suggestions. Thanks...

ftierson
April 6, 2005, 10:19 PM
on_target,

Is this the new Mini-max Sub-compact, or the earlier Mini-Max II (both made by Fabrinor/Llama)?

The first thing to check with any feeding problem in an auto pistol is the magazine. Do you have a couple of magazines to try?

on_target
April 7, 2005, 09:40 PM
Thanks ftierson, will purchase mag this weekend and give it a try...

Mason
April 9, 2005, 02:24 AM
It seems there are several people here who know there stuff in regards to the Llama. I have hope that they may help me as well.

I just picked a Llama 45 as payment for a job. And I have to say, this is the first gun SA 45 that I have owned. I have, and always will be a Glock fan. Kind of hard not to be when I've only had one jam in the last twelve years between five different guns. But that's a debate for another day. What I would like to know about this Llama is all the good stuff. It was imported from Spain by Stoeger. It only has a 6 digited serial number. Is this thing just a paper weight, or do I have something that I can add to my gun bag. I'm worried about hammer bite with this thing. What are the posibilities about getting some aftermarket parts for it.

Any and all info would be really great.

This is my first post to this site and I must say that I'm impressed by it.

Big Gay Al
April 9, 2005, 02:54 AM
I bought the Firestorm Gov't Model last year. Made at the same factory as the current Llama line, it is practically identical to the Llama. I kept it until this past March. While I liked it in general, I was not happy with the finish. Nor did I like the sharpness of the serrations on the slide.

So, I sold it, and used the money to buy a Para-Ordnance P13.45

Other than the finish, I was relatively happy with the Firestorm.

horge
April 9, 2005, 06:36 AM
Hi, Mason :)

Llama through Stoeger w/ a 6-digit SN?

That's possibly one of the early Llama 1911-lookalikes.
Parts do NOT necessarily interchange with proper 1911-pattern pistols.
There's still a chance it was built in Llama's bad days, and really...
there's only one way to find out if it shoots straight and reliably.

You just may have a shooter on your hands.
Check out Walt Sherrill's comments 12 posts up!

Good luck.

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