[Detritus]

reacently my wife and i decided that we want to go ahead adn get a .45 acp pistol for both of us to shoot. both of us have as close to the same size hands as to have no difference in what grip, shapes and sizes work for each of us.

i have narrowed the feild down to a Ruger P97 or a 1911A1 clone. since used 1911's in good shape are fairly common in my area. i can get either one for around the same amount. eventually i'll own both, but i want to get oppinions as to which i should get FIRST.

at first the gun chosen will be used only as a range gun. but when BOTH of us are familiar and comfortable enough with the gun , we plan on taking a CHL course and that adds another factor to the equation.


so any and all input on this is appreciated.

BTW i have experience with both the 1911 and a ruger P95 (figure it's close enough to the P97 that fuction is the same) so i am familiar with and fairly comfortabel with both action types.

[chaim]

Get the 1911. I'd look for a Springfield or Kimber for the best combination of quality and price.

The mid level 1911s are much nicer than a Ruger. They may be more accurate than a Ruger, though the .45acp Rugers are highly accurate.

Rugers are very reliable and durable. However, the ergonomics aren't usually very good- they are huge and feel like a brick in the hand. For a range gun only they are fine if they fit you, but even if your hands are big they will be hard (though not impossible) to conceal. The P89 I had, while a good gun, really didn't inspire any "pride of ownership"- they really don't do the intangibles very well. They are good as a quality and affordable firearm, they are accurate (.45acp, not the 9mm Rugers), and they are 100% reliable (9mm, the .45acp is close) and indestructable.

The 1911s are just better guns. With a quality 1911 (Springfield, Kimber or above) they are very consistently reliable, and they are durable (the frames will last just about forever- when they were replaced as the general issue side arm the military still regularly used frames, where just about everything else on it was replaced but the frame is still going strong, from WWII). The quality 1911 brands will seem hand made compared to a Ruger. Heck, I have a Charles Daly and compared to the Ruger I had it seems like a vast imporvement in workmanship (yet the Ruger was probably better made than the entry level Daly). If you ever think you may carry, or if you or your wife don't have large hands, you will especially appreciate the thin single stack design of the 1911.

Bottom line, the Ruger is a good gun that will serve functionally very well (assuming it fits your hand and your wife's hand). The 1911 (especially from a quality manufacturer) is a good gun that will serve functionally very well, but it should fit you better, it does the intangibles better, and it will be a potential family heirloom.

[Rob96]

I have no experience with the P-97, but do own a P-90 and owned a 1911. I bought my P-90T brand new last March for $325 and it is an amazing gun. Reliable as all get out. Probably would feed rocks if I would load them in the magazine. Accuracy is phenominal (sp?). The most accurate DA/SA I have ever shot. At 20 yds. I managed a 1/2" group fired offhand at a moderate pace, using Triton 230gr HiVel jhp's. IMO the gunn looks bigger than it is. I carry mine concealed in IWB holster. Not bashing the 1911, but they can be a finicky lot, and I may own one again. But am also considerring the P-97 as a second 45acp to have. If you do get a 1911 I would stick with Colt and Springfield, and that comes from many knowledgable people, both gunsmiths and shooters.

[ZekeLuvs1911]

Get the 1911. It's a proven design with a proven caliber. I also feel that a Kimber or Springfield Armory 1911 is well made and better shooting than a Ruger. Just my 2 cents.

[mini14jac]

It really depends on what you want to do with the gun.
I am going through this same process myself.
A 1911 will be slightly easier to conceal.
But a Ruger has a lot going for it:
1. It seems to me that the P97 is the slimmest auto that Ruger makes.
2. A P97 won't need any work done to it in order to feed hollow points, shoot accurately, etc.
3. You can probably get two Rugers for the price of a Kimber.

I've given it a lot of thought.
At this time, I don't want to become a 1911 'smith.
I am trying to keep the number of $600+ guns in my collection to a minimum. :rolleyes:
I want a fun, accurate, reliable gun for the range, and defense.
Mine will be a Ruger.

- I was at the range last year, and a guy was trying to break in a NIB "micro" 1911, that he had purchased for his wife. I don't remember the brand, but he was griping about the fact that he had spent over $1000 on the gun, and it wouldn't even feed fmj. :uhoh:

[Lexter]

I'd suggest you and the wife check out the Ruger P-90. I have a P-90 and a P-97. I prefer the "90" hands down. It's accurate, feeds w/out a "burp", etc.

I owned a Springfield Ultra Compact 1911 (all stainless). Loved it's looks, hated it's performance. I had too many problems with this little gun and bought two Rugers instead. Your experience may vary from mine...it seems that the 1911's just need too much tweaking. Some folks are into that, I'm not!!


Lexter in NC

[Spoonman]

I have a Ruger P90 and a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec 1911A1. I've had the Ruger (stock, except for Hogue grips) for 8 or 9 years and the 1911 (stock, except for ivory grips) for a couple of years. Both are absolutely reliable.

The 1911 gets more range time (more accurate, fun to shoot, cooler-looking). The ergonomic aspect of the 1911 is not exaggerated. The trigger is very good. The 1911 seems to be easier to shoot well, even for inexperienced shooters.

The Ruger gets more field carry time (good "combat" accuracy, lighter, proven durability under less-than-ideal conditions). I'm not quite as concerned with the 'getting knocked-around' index on the Ruger. (I take care of all my firearms, but the 1911 is my baby. Ivory grips, y'know.) The Ruger is stainless/ alloy-frame and pretty much indestructible. (I "torture-tested" the P90 several years ago by not cleaning it until it failed. The only problem was... it never failed. After 700+ rounds and 8 months, I cleaned it out of shame.)

All that being said, buy whichever pistol 'feels' best to both of you. Then buy the other one.

Clif

[gryphon]

1911

That string of numbers alone should be enough to make a decision.

[seeker_two]

What action type are you most comfortable with?

If you're comfortable carrying cocked & locked (or cocking on the draw) the 1911 would work. If not, I'd stick w/ the Ruger.

Add to that that a good 1911 will usually cost $100-300 more than the Ruger ( a consideration when you're buying two), and the Ruger may be a better bet.

If you can, try going to a range where you can rent or borrow both pistols first. Let your preferences be your ultimate guide...:cool:

[jonptoms]

Do your best to try a Para Ordnance LDA series pistol (like the Para Companion). These are great for concealed carry, and the lightning double action trigger is almost like SA. Being new to pistols you might be a little wary of carrying cocked and locked, and so a DA or LDA or safe action might be better for you - but you have to decide (please no flames).

I own SA, DA, safe action, and LDA pistols and I find the LDA is the best action all around and use it for CCW, as well as IDPA.

[Detritus]

there will be only one gun bought at this time NOT a gun for each of us. the gun in question would be the first pistol i've owned since '98. and THE first handgun my wife has with since her time in the army.

i am perfectly comfortable with condition 1 carry. so that is not a strike against the 1911. i also am completely comfortable with the Ruger DA/SA tigger. though the concept of the Para-ord (sorry Jonptoms) is kind of "way NOT my thing" 1911's should be SA only.


later after (or possibly just before depending on the law on what you can carry) we've both taken the CHL course one or both of us will go and get a gun that more specificly "fits" us. but that is not currently the goal. goal currently is to have a gun that i can re-train myself with, and get my wife shooting with. adn that is fun to shoot ect.

well hope that has been of a help :D

[Mark IV Series 80]

I would go with a Ruger P97 or P90.

I believe, that to get a 1911-type to work as reliably, and shoot as accurately as the Rugers, you would have to spend double the amount of money.

I love shooting my Colt Government Model and Combat Commander, but I had to pay a gunsmith and take the time to assure reliability.

If you want a gun that you can pull out of the box, clean, and start trouble-free shooting, get the Ruger.

[45auto]

Although pricing differs, I believe the Rugers sell for around $350.
If that's true and that's what you want to spend, I would 'second' the opinion of getting the Ruger. The chances of acquiring a 1911 that is as reliable as the Ruger, for that money, are slim indeed!

Good luck

[10-Ring]

Between the 2, I prefer the 1911. But again, you shoot rent them both & get the one that works best for you & your wife ;)

[RON in PA]

Of all the Ruger semi-autos I think the P97 is the one that you might have a problem with. This based on my son's experience with his former P97 and comments made over on the Ruger forum. Note that I'm a big supporter of the P95 but that's a whole different pistol.

For a range gun I think that the added weight of the 1911 is good for extended shooting sessions.

[chaim]

I believe, that to get a 1911-type to work as reliably, and shoot as accurately as the Rugers, you would have to spend double the amount of money. I don't get that statement that so often crops up when discussing the 1911. I have a cheap Charles Daly which is very reliable (or it was once I got rid of the factory mags). My best friend's Kimber had one minor hiccup after thousands of rounds in only a few months. If you look at the 1911 forum, or listen to owners here I think you'll see that any gun can have problems and 1911s don't really cause more than any other design. If you go with a Kimber or SA especially you should be fine, and used they shouldn't be overly expensive (heck, new the SA Mil-spec isn't much more than the Ruger, and a base Kimber isn't overly expensive).



Detritus,

If you go w/ the Ruger consider the P90 instead of the P97. From the board at the Ruger forum and TFL it seems that the P97 has far more problems than any other Ruger pistol. A friend of mine had a P90 and it really is a decent, reliable and accurate handgun. If I would get a Ruger autopistol (9mm, .40 or .45) the P90 would be my first choice.

[Mark IV Series 80]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe, that to get a 1911-type to work as reliably, and shoot as accurately as the Rugers, you would have to spend double the amount of money.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't get that statement that so often crops up when discussing the 1911.....Hello Chaim,

My statement was based on my personal experience.

I have a Series 80 Combat Commander. If I could find one of them today, it would probably cost $600 - $700.

After I had fired more than one thousand rounds of hardball thru it, the Commander was still not 100% reliable with hardball.

I paid a pistolsmith to perform a reliability job and a trigger job, and waited 5-6 weeks.

I now have a quality gun. It will feed all factory hardball and hollowpoints, it has a nice, crisp trigger, and it is very accurate.

My co-worker picked up a new Ruger P90.
We went to the range after work. He fired 200 rounds thru the gun without a single malfunction.

I fired the P90, and after getting used to the trigger, I could get groups nearly as tight as I can get with my Combat Commander.

Is the Commander worth 3 times what the P90 cost? It is for me.
But for many other people, it wouldn't be.

It's a lot of hassle to go thru the break-in process with your new 1911-type, and then it's still not totally reliable.

I think that most shooters want a gun that will work perfectly out of the box.

[bestseller92]

My P97 has been perfect.

[possum]

i would say the 1911 first and foremost, and i know you mentioned the ruger p97, but you could also check out the p345 a little new and improved. i think they feel better in the hand than the old ones personally! good luck and let us know what you decide!

[skinnyguy]

Another one chiming in on the Ruger.

[Dobe]

1911 in Kimber or Springfield.

[KINGMAX]

Get the real deal, SPRINGFIELD 1911 EVERYDAY

[KINGMAX]

I have HAD a COLT COMMANDER, (note: = confiscated because it was behind my truck seat, w/ no paper work. It was a pistol used along time ago by a DEA Agent - he has since went to a GLOCK 21. It was listed as a stolen weapon at one time, subsequently - showed up on a HOTT list, was unable to get it back. It was given to me by a mutal friend of myself and the DEA Agent. He was unwilling to help me get it back as well) I prefer the SPRINGFIELD 1911 trype over them all to include a Kimber. I have had no exposure to a Wilson Combat of any type, = no opinion at this time on a Wilson.

[ADKWOODSMAN]

I've owned a series 70 gold cup Colt 45 and the accuracy and trigger were great. My current Colt gold cup with a GI slide and barrel have had over 50,000 rounds through it. My newer Springfield is state of the arts accurate and an excellent trigger.--These are my votes.

[fattsgalore]

I suggest a Ruger 45.(P90/P97/P345 even though the 345 is still working the bugs out) But a 1911 is great two, I just believe there not the best CCW guns.
But to be honest your gonna buy what you want.
Good luck.

[doubleg]

Go with the 1911..


Better trigger
Parts are everywhere
Thinner, easyer to carry
Longer barrel
Feels alot more solid in the hand
More accurate

The reason I would get a Ruger is if I wanted a DA/SA and I don't.

[bakert]

I like both the Rugers and 1911s but when I bought a gun for concealed carry, I opted for the P97. And yes, my gun was one of the ones with the slide stop backing out issue. A call to Ruger and they sent me a new slide stop, camblock and recoil spring. An easy fix and it works every time now and has for a number of thousands of rds. It's a bit thicker than a 1911 but accurate and at 31 ounces it's fairly lightweight and conceals very well. Pick what seems to suit you best but this one works for me.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f241/brumanj/Picture344.jpg

[Detritus]

WOW never been involved in a case of "thread necromancy" before!! :D

seriously guys it's cool that over 4 years after i started this thread, i can still wind up getting advice on this. and i appreciate the advice (any info/experiences regarding guns = good info).
but in the time since i last looked at this thread, My wife and I have bought three different pistols.

SA 1911A1 "GI Mil-spec" which was bought first and after 2 years stupidly traded toward a rifle i thought i wanted. a replacement (with better sights, possibly an STI Trojan) is the next pistol purchase I plan to make.

Bersa Thunder for my wife, turned out to not be a good match, layed around the gunsafe for 3 years, and lead to pistol number 3

SA XD9 Service, bought about 2 months ago and still being broken in, but she seems happy with it.

now i just need to get hold of another 1911:D

[TimboKhan]

I am as big a fan of the Ruger P90 that you will ever run across, but even I will admit that it might be a little big for your wifes paws. In terms of reliability, I don't think you would really be losing anything with either gun. In my experience, my P90 has been as reliable as I could expect any gun to be, and my Taurus PT1911 has been the same. Accuracy-wise, I have to give the edge to my 1911. I think that is largely because of the sights on my Taurus, but I have to concede that I am more accurate with it. That isn't to say that my P90 is not accurate, it's just not as good as my Taurus.

[koja48]

Springfield 1911, hands-down. Have several & no complaints.

[Rob96]

I have no experience with the P-97, but do own a P-90 and owned a 1911. I bought my P-90T brand new last March for $325 and it is an amazing gun. Reliable as all get out. Probably would feed rocks if I would load them in the magazine. Accuracy is phenominal (sp?). The most accurate DA/SA I have ever shot. At 20 yds. I managed a 1/2" group fired offhand at a moderate pace, using Triton 230gr HiVel jhp's. IMO the gunn looks bigger than it is. I carry mine concealed in IWB holster. Not bashing the 1911, but they can be a finicky lot, and I may own one again. But am also considerring the P-97 as a second 45acp to have. If you do get a 1911 I would stick with Colt and Springfield, and that comes from many knowledgable people, both gunsmiths and shooters.

These are my own words from 4 years ago. Chronologically, The P-90 I had replaced a Charles Daly 1911. The Ruger P90 then went towards a Colt 1991A1, then added a second Colt. One was sold the other traded. Inplace I had a Sig P228 and Ruger P97, both of which were traded. now I am back to a 1911 only this time in the Springfield Mil-Spec flavor. I need to just learn to keep my 1911. Lord knows why I do foolish things like trade them away, only to pick one up later, and realize how great they feel in the hand.:banghead:

[Brett Byers]

I love Ruger's and 1911A1 designs. I have never had that particular Ruger but have shot a P345 (single stack)and it felt great and was accurate with everything it digested. If I was looking for another .45ACP (and I am) it will be a 1911A1....I love it's feel and it's distinguished history.

[Plink]

I chose a P-97 for home defense. It leaves a bit to be desired as to ergonomics, but it's impressively reliable and quite accurate. I wish I had gone with the P-90 instead, as the Ruger polymer framed P guns don't fit me well. Still, I have no negatives about the gun as far as shootability and reliability go.

[Rob96]

I chose a P-97 for home defense. It leaves a bit to be desired as to ergonomics, but it's impressively reliable and quite accurate. I wish I had gone with the P-90 instead, as the Ruger polymer framed P guns don't fit me well. Still, I have no negatives about the gun as far as shootability and reliability go.


The only gripe I had about the P-97, was that the polymer was slick. Hand gets a little sweaty and it became slippery.

[Plink]

I put a Hogue Hand-All on my P-97 for that very reason. It's a big help. I generally don't like polymer frames for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is that you're pretty much stuck with the grips whether you like them or not. I like the option to change them out to something that fits me better. I wish they'd make polymer frames with seperate grip panels so we'd have the best of both worlds.

[High Planes Drifter]

Id go with a Springfield 1911A1. I've owned both. I just put another 250 rounds thru my GI yesterday; I do that pretty much once a month, and its dead reliable. Its accurate, I hit just as consistanly with it at 25 yards as I do with my Sig220 when shooting at 8" pie plates. It feels "right" in my hands. It points naturally.


Also, a point not brung up till now; if you should run out of ammo when shooting a 1911A1 in defense, it makes one dandy of a whipping tool.

edited for correct grammar

[bakert]

High Planes Drifter> "Also, a point not brung up till now; if you should run out of ammo when shooting a 1911A1 in defense, it makes a one dandy of a whipping tool."

Now that's what I call getting the utmost use out of a gun!!:)

[RH822]

I have both a P97DC and a Springfield Mil Spec 1911A1. I have never had a problem with either of them. As for accuracy, I really can't tell the difference between the two both hit what I aim them at.

RH

[obxned]

Try the Ruger P345!

[cajun47]

get the ruger.

[Frog48]

I have both a Springfield 1911 GI and Ruger P95. The P95 is virtually identical to the P97, with the obvious exception of caliber. I prefer the 1911, just because I prefer the feel.

bakert, where did you find that slip on grip on your P97? I'd love to find one exactly like that for my P95.

[bakert]

Grant 48, I couldn't find the Hogue slip on grip around where I live so I believe I either ordered it from Dillon's Blue Book or Midway. It really makes a difference and the grip seems to fit my hand much better.

[reppondj]

Have you considered the Ruger P345. Its a relatively new pistol, a little smaller (thinner) and lighter than the other Rugers. The recoil is rather mild as well. As far as accuracy goes its pretty darn good with the three dot system and adjustable rear sight.

However; the 1911 is tried and true.

Just my 2 pennies worth.

[Detritus]

Have you considered the Ruger P345.

actually yes, and it has been rejected (didn't balance right).

But more importantly as i tried to say 16 replies ago, This thread is 4 years old! the decision that it asks advice for HAS been made. so frankly i know the advice is good and well meant, but guys, it's been 4 years and i already bought the thing ;)


In may of '04 I made up my mind and bought a Springfield WW2 Mil-spec for myself then not long after a Bersa Thunder .380 for my wife. neither gun is still with us as the bersa didn't work out and has been replaced by an XD9. and the 1911 was foolishly traded away toward a varmint rifle that sat and collected rust & dust till it was traded toward better things, and a replacement 1911 will be my next gun purchase.