[geegee]

I got to thinking lately, that in light of recent events in our country has (or will) the militia movement become more acceptable? And should it?

I think that like many American gun owners, I've had no interest in joining an organization that might promote strident anti-government views, and/or exist as a cover organization for Kluxers and neo-Nazi's. But I have to admit that the idea of being able to network with other law abiding citizens who believe in the 2nd Amendment seems to be reasonable and rational.

Has the MM evolved? Have many of it's members either refined their organizations and weeded out the Tim McVeigh types, or have the die hard's simply taken their orgs deeper underground? You sure don't seem to hear much about them anymore, and that seems peculiar, as we've reached a time in our history when you would think they could conceivably be at their strongest.

When I think about the people who are members on this board (mostly former TFL'ers like myself), I must admit that if I thought I could become a member of a network of many who post here (from all over the country), I can't see a real negative side to an affiliation like that. Am I off base here? geegee

[45Badger]

Depends if you can weed out the strident absolutists in our midst. By tone of your post, you seem like a reasonable person. To me. Others might find you too soft on the issues, and Hilary might find your views extremist.

My take on the MM was it largely made up of folks worried (some paranoid) that our gov't was gonna sell out to the UN, surrender US Constitution, take away their guns, etc. SOME of those issues may be real, some may not.

They did attract their fair share of dis-affected middle aged white men (in the spirit of full disclosure, I fit the demographic). And some whackos. I found some of the postering ridiculous and pitiful. Especially the concept of these guys surviving more than 5 minutes in a full blown fire fight with US Army/Marines/etc.

I guess I'll be on my own when the black helicopters come to take me away. Or the tanks start rolling up my driveway.

[geegee]

45Badger: They did attract their fair share of dis-affected middle aged white men (in the spirit of full disclosure, I fit the demographic).
Hey, I resemble that remark! :p geegee

[Pistolsmith]

The Federal government considers private militias to be "terrorist organizations" and the U.S. Army has been trained to eliminate them through urban and suburban warfare. On 9/11 the troops of the 2nd division were standing by to invade Idaho and Montana, should they have become visible.
Beware of "patriotic groups" with hidden agendas. The U.S. government disbanded the lawful militias when Civil Defense was closed down. Anything out there today is well documented by law enforcement and the military through infiltration and it is listed along with criminal organizations in their records.
In the eyes of the government, there is no possibility of a militia organization "keeping the peace" during time of turmoil. It will be immediately eleiminated and the "media" will make it look like a kookaboo weirdo private army out to capture local government and impose its will on the people.
I'm assuming that you haven't heard this before, but you came herre to learn new things, didn't you? You can confirm all of this if you know somebody involved in Army urban warfare training. I did.
So, the wisest solution is to always go solo if you gotta go. I believe that many years ago Kipling wrote a poem to express this idea.
"Down to gehenna, or up to the throne,
He travels fastest who travels alone."

[geegee]

Pistolsmith: The Federal government considers private militias to be "terrorist organizations" and the U.S. Army has been trained to eliminate them through urban and suburban warfare. On 9/11 the troops of the 2nd division were standing by to invade Idaho and Montana, should they have become visible.
:what: Now that's something I'd like more information about. What reason would the US Army have for having those troops ready on the borders of those states (recognizing that a force that size wasn't assembled on a moment's notice), ready to go on 9/11 ?
So, the wisest solution is to always go solo if you gotta go.
I don't discount the value of that advice, but if I knew there were many more people like myself, holding to similar views-largely aiding our families and building strength through numbers-I believe there is some advantage to that. geegee

[Gordon]

Remember the famous "w ould you fire on American Citizns if ordered to surrender their weapon?" that was passed around in Pendelton and elsewhere? Its real alright. More to point is the info I got from silicon valley computer geek who writes programs for Govt. software 'threat determination' that has a threshold of 3-5 persons before you get a nasty high tech surprise assigned to you in combat scenarios'.:fire:

[Jon Roland]

This is introduce myself to the forum members. I have played a leading role in the militia movement since 1994, and can report it is alive and well, even if not getting, or drawing, as much attention as it once did. Recent prominent activities include patrolling the border with Mexico to deter or capture illegal immigrants, especially those with hostile intent.

Yes, the Establishment is attempting to suppress the militia movement, but a few of them are coming to realize that only a fully mobilized militia may be able to protect them from weapons of mass destruction smuggled into the country and released in some of our cities.

I have a famous web site at http://www.constitution.org

[Keith_Yorktown]

You might check into your states "State Guard". This would be an organized state militia under the direction of the governor.

I know one state (Virginia I think) just recently moblized their state guard to help protect the homeland.

http://www.sgaus.org/

[Oatka]

I think the militia movement, per se is dead, and would fail if called on a wide scale.

During the Millenium Scare, a thread was posted on TFL about an Idaho (I think) sheriff calling all CCW holders to be on standby if TSHTF on 2000. Maybe an Urban Legend, but think about it. Suppose that in a national emergency, the governor "calls up the militia" and you are to report to a central area for mustering. Are you going to leave your wife and family to be protected by the local authorities?

I feel I can be a better asset to my state/country if I am able to take care of me and mine (food, water, etc.) and maybe some neighborhood defense. Think of southern Florida after hurricane Andrew and the thugs roaming and looting the neighborhoods - and the signs on the houses (that weren't looted) which said, "This house protected by Smith and Wesson".

I suspect that if TSHTF and any kind of state-wide militia was ever called up, there would be too many who would clear their throats, shuffle their feet and get that 1,000-yard stare.

Geegee's question does bring up the point that if most of our National Guard is overseas, as in Desert Storm, what is the next line of law enforcement in an emergency like a major natural disaster, let alone anything else? The last I heard, it was the State Police - and how many of them are around?

[geegee]

Jon Roland: That website is one motherlode of information! To what do you attribute the low profile of the MM over the past few years, and especially in light of recent developments?

And to be more direct (if you don't mind), can you shed any light on the statement made by Pistolsmoth regarding US troops asssembling on the state borders of Idaho and Montana, and whether to your knowledge, any militia group you've ever belonged to was singled out for, ah, "special attention" by our government?

Also, have you seen the numbers in the MM increase or decrease over the past 2-3 years, and have you noticed any changes in the type of person that is now joining these groups? More mainstream, for example? Thanks, geegee

[Pistolsmith]

Somebody is putting words into my mouth to try to deflect the truth. I said NOTHING about assembling on the borders of a state. Fort Lewis is only a short helicopter hop from Idaho and a short run on the highway to Montana.
AThe infiltrators into militia movements are there partially to disseminate false information.
All state militias were disbanded when Civil Defense was abolished. That is, they stopped getting federal funding. Some states kept them because they are a primary source of manpower in case of forest fires and natural disaster. Don't look for the feds to arm them as they did in the 60's.
Any sheriff can deputise a number of civilians into a posse, and this is the ONLY kind of organization that is protected under the law. A local sheriff can exclude all federal organizations from his county at his discretion. All other private organizations will be deemed unlawful.
The primary position of the federal government is to protect the union. If you will remember, the U.S. fought an unlawful civil war; there is absolutely nothing in the constitution that forbids a state from seceding from the union, yet militiary power was used and civil rights were abrogated to prevent the South from leaving the union.
Heed what the poster said above about military people having been polled about shooting Americans who will not surrender their arms. This is no joke and it is no drill. This is zero hour and a word to the wise is sufficient. Anyone who harrangues about the issues that can be verified very easily by speaking to different people should be investigated. Remember, the F.B.I. has planted moles in EVERY private organization. Some states have informers who provide information to law enforcement about private groups. I have a manual, long outdated, that lists every group with over a half dozen members. My own city, at that time, had seven private armies armed and equipped for something or other.
One nationwide publishing company that sells firearms manuals mail order has dutifully supplied the government with a list of manuals sold and who purchased them. In the eyes of law enforcement, if you buy a manual on a sten gun, you have one stashed somewhere. Get the idea?

[Pilgrim]

The Federal government considers private militias to be "terrorist organizations" and the U.S. Army has been trained to eliminate them through urban and suburban warfare. On 9/11 the troops of the 2nd division were standing by to invade Idaho and Montana, should they have become visible.

I thought the 2nd. Infantry Division was in Korea. I thought it has been there since the Korean War. Pretty big move for a deployed divsion, from Korea to Idaho. Funny I never heard of it. I would think the Republic of Korea government would have made a big stink about it.

[MitchSchaft]

I've been looking into this subject for a while, but can't get anywhere with it. Nobody knows anything about anything for my area. As for my State Guard, they won't answer my emails. :banghead:

[Pistolsmith]

There are evidently a lot of things yoou don't know about, Pilgrim! The Second (Indian Head) Division has been at Fort Lewis for years and some elements are now moving out for points unknown. I live just 14 miles from fort Lewis and I know a good many soldiers.
It is true that the Second was called up from Fort Lewis and deployed to Korea in 1950. Don't forget that we also have McChord Air Force Base right next door to Fort Lewis and Camp Murray, and those big planes can lift a good many troops at a time. Some days, the patterns are full of them and the roar of the engines continues into the hours of darkness. And, I'm right in the flight path.
They DID NOT deploy to Idaho, Pilgrim. Fort Lewis is right outside Tacoma, Washington. I said they were READY and ALETED to deploy. Don't try to distort what I've said; I said it for a reason and some of the posters above know exactly what I mean.

[Coronach]

I'm moving this to legal/political.

Also, making claims about US troop deployments to suppress the militia movement is easy to do. I have the 10th Mountain Division camped out in my backyard to keep an eye on me, for instance. Being able to post sources is somewhat harder.

Mike

[Pilgrim]

Yes, you are correct. The 2nd. Division's Third Brigade is still at Fort Lewis. I did some more research and discovered that after my first post.

[Pistolsmith]

Gee, Corny, are you implying that YOU are a better informed person that some of your posters? Please let us in on the information you think you have.
To all of those who don't care to believe what I've said: Good for you. Go back to sleep. If your eyes are closed you will "see no evil".
A word to the wise, remember. 'Nuff said; I'm leaving this forum.

[MitchSchaft]

:confused:

[Skunkabilly]

I have snapshots of the Center for Skunk Control agents in the balcony of the apt across from mine...but they disappeared off my computer :confused:

[2nd Amendment]

Dear me. How will we ever recover? :rolleyes:

What Roland says is correct. The Militia is alive and well, simply taking a lower profile and a slightly different direction. Infiltration is one cause of that. The "wannabes" are another. Locally we have the "Indiana Militia" operated by a character we threw out of the ICVM years ago for general insanity. His "Indiana Militia" consists of him, his wife and a buddy. He's a General, BTW. 4 star, dontcha know.

But, the media gives him lots of attention(national, even*shudder*) and everybody knows him on site. So, while we go and do our thing quietly who do ya think will be Target No 1 if the feds ever do want to make an example of someone? :D

[rock jock]

'Nuff said; I'm leaving this forum.
:) Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Pistolsmith]

"dear me, how will we ever recover?"
I dunno, Blooper. Seems to me some high ranking doodlyfloppers said that about Billy Mitchell a few years ago. And, look at what it cost America in the long run... It just goes to prove that "never" is one helluva long time.
I defy any forumite to find one word, or one faint hint from the Federal Gevernment prior to the invasions, that they intended to kill civilians, including men, women holding babies in their arms and innocent children prior to the incidents at Ruby Ridge and Waco? My goodness, how quickly sunshine patriots and summer soldiers forget the past! It is incredibly ignorant to think the government is going to telegraph their punch.
What part of "The federal government considers private miolitias to be outlaw/terrorist organizations and has infiltrated them all" don't you understand or agree with? Let's see your evidence to the contrary, since your rhetoric is totally unconvincing to anyone trying to make a rational decision here.
What portion of your "patriotic" speil have you changed in the past 30 years or so? Wake up and smell the crude oil! World War II style patriot groups will not be tolerated. In case you have been looking at the ground, the U.N. proclaimed a couple of years ago that it is their ultimate aim to disarm ALL civilians all over the world. What part of "all" didn't quite sink in.
As for the "Second Amendment" perhaps ;you should go to the NRA web site for verification of the undisputed fact that our bill of rights DOES NOT grant you the right to form a militia and to keep and bear arms...it is ENGLISH COMMON LAW that grants you that right. Unfortunately, the English Common Law has been superceded by a nearly complete prohibition of gun ownership...in every English speaking country besides our own.
If you are looking for a hint or two: Nikola Tesla engineered a very small, handheld particle beam weapon. While no patent drawings will be released by the US government, there are enough hints in books about Tesla to build one for yourself. Several web sites have this information.
Rockets (not rifles) are the primary weapon of the Infantry today. .22 bullets don't make it against a powerful rocket with a sizeable warhead. Is this a hint, or what?
Oh, what the heck! Look at the terrible things they said about Bily Mitchell; at least I'm in good company.
I look forward to reading all of the profound and enlightening things you have to say. After all, it's up to you to prove that you are part of the solution and not part of the problem. One dumb move by a private militia and the government will confiscate ALL firearrms including muzzle loaders from us all. Did you catch the change in status of black powder weapons in the first issue of the ATF bulletin we received a month ago? Very quietly, they put black powder arms in the same category as modern firearms for taxation purposes. Read it and weep. And I thought that you guys were supposed to be on top of all this.

[2nd Amendment]

I'm rather baffled as to the point you are disjointedly trying to make here. Oh, and I thought you had left?

So, the militia is a "terrorist" group? So what? We assumed we would be labeled that and far worse a decade ago when a few of us started this thing. They see us as the enemy and will treat us accordingly. Such is life. And as for legitimacy, so what? Nobody I know is seeking legitimacy for the militia in any document or history of law. Our legitimacy is the fact we wish to exist and associate and so we bloody well will. Anyone with a problem there has a problem. Too bad.

A wrong move by the militia will bring down confiscation? So will a wrong move by any civilian. So will a mass shooting. So will a dozen other things within and without our control. Would you prefer that nobody does anything? That we all sit on our hands individually and wait for the hammer to drop? If you actually believe confiscation is coming and that the government is simply waiting for an excuse, both of which I find at least slightly questionable, then why not make the next logical step: The government will simply engineer yet another conveniently timed school shooting or something similar. They hardly need to wait, now do they?

Yes, most of us have caught the changes, the shuffling, the subtle legislation that permeates the Patriot Act and Homeland Sekurity, as well as Total Information Awareness. Again, what would your preferred response be? Do nothing? If you really believe the above then, again, that really won't accomplish anything either, will it?

As for chances against an organized military, in a nation this size very good. Very good to create complete chaos, anyway. Winning? I don't think winning was ever in anyones plans. Resistance is better than submission, though. Again I'd ask, what is the point that you are trying to make? That since the odds might be against us we should simply quit? Sorry, I just don't feel the urge for that.

[45Badger]

Aw, GeeGee. Look what ya started. They're coming out of the woodwork:rolleyes:

[Pistolsmith]

Do I have to draw out every point?
If you are a student of recent history, you can look at, say, two of the many resistance groups that have existed and easily point out the successful ones and those that failed miserably.
NO GROUP THAT RESEMBLED AN ARMY OR A MILITIA WAS A RESOUNDING SUCCESS.
In 1895 to 1915, in Turkey, where the government issued orders to the civil population to "kill every Armenian" (The Armenians were Christian, the Turks Mohammeden) the underground organizations caused widespread successful operations against Turkish government troops, Kurds, civilian mobs, etc. The groups consisted of three persons. Many were captured, but could only supply the names of two others under torture, at which the Turks excelled. The whole opposition was a success and several individuals even went on to gain the support of International groups and local parliamentarians.
During World War II, I had a very good friend who was a member of the Norwegian underground. His unit specialized in sabotage of trains and train tracks and was also based on three man cells and they went until the end of the war causing the Germans havoc and never being captured. On the other hand, organized (militia) "resistance groups" were quickly apprehanded and executed. Their necessary logistics and supply lines always gave them away.
The point is this: They were resisting occupation by troops of the government in power at the time. They made no attempt to stop any civil riots. They did not guard the borders against infiltration by saboteurs or smugglers. Their aim was NOT to restore order in the face of chaos (they used chaos as a cloak) but to resist political tyranny. And that, sir, is called "true patriotism".
I hope that somebody will see the point I'm trying to make.
The Mohammedens believe in suicide attacks, but perhaps you'd like to review your overall strategy and consider the enormous power of three solitary souls working independently, compared to armies of patriots working in unison.

[Soap]

Pistolsmith, I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking this: Huh?

[2nd Amendment]

Ummm...huh?

Uhhh, cell structure? Independent groups seeking to provide resistance to government control? I thought that was pretty much the purpose and idea of the militia, as well as what I said. There are those with grand ideas of fighting a Holy Constitutional War and Restoring the Republic. They get smiles and back slapping and the quiet acknowledgement they'll be the first on any list, right up there with the aforementioned Geralisimo of the Indiana Militia. :rolleyes:

Anyway, whatever. I'll get together with the guys every other weekend or so and we'll do our thing and try to stay current on data and in decent shape physically and capable with the equipment we have. If the Big Bad Gubermint should go knocking on doors then we'll do what we can, mainly just to survive. In the meantime I'm just too old to worry about it any more than that, Pistol. So, have a nice day. Glad to see ya stayed, BTW.

[geegee]

45Badger: Aw, GeeGee. Look what ya started. They're coming out of the woodwork
Agreed, although it seemed like a good idea at the time....:confused: :banghead:
geegee

[Mr Jody Hudson]

Please consider a Community Watch; you know the people, they know each other, the dangerous ones are automatically ostracized and you get to know and depend on each other frequently.

In very rural areas almost everyone will already be well armed and well trained to some degree as many if not most are or have been hunters and woodsmen.

In urban and suburban areas there are far more areas of specialization that make sense; for instance people who know how to protect you from a sewer pump outtage if you are downhill from someone else.

These Community Watch groups have good value in normal times as well. When the little old lady needs her sewing machine moved because she can't lift it or when your wife needs a dress hemmed... it sets up real community which is so much missing today. And, you learn who keeps promises, who is fair and honest and who knows what and who is just a lot of hot air... and you find it all out well in advance of everyone's live being dependent on this knowledge.

[Pistolsmith]

GeeGee:
If you want a simple answer to your question, here it is:
The movement is alive and well and gathering more adherants every day.

Heed the words of the poet:

Then spake brave Horatius, the captain of the gate,
To every man upon this earth death comes soon or late,
How can a man die better than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his gods.

Horatius, remember, with three friends stopped an Etruscan attack on Rome by choosing their ground carefully, then when they had accomplished their purpose of delaying the invasion, they plunged into the Tiber and swam to safety. (Translation: "He who fights and runs away, wil be alive to fight another day." ) This was not true for the many brave militiamen from the Colonies who held their ground and fell before the British troops to pay with their lives for the freedoms we take for granted. Francis Marion, the Swamp Fox, on the other hand, survived the British invasion by sending out small units and using Indian tactics. Instead of sacraficing their lives for their country, they let the Brits sacrafice their lives for THEIR country.

Any disagreement you detect is one of tactics and strategy, not of principle.

[hondo68]

Pistolsmith>> As for the "Second Amendment" perhaps ;you should go to the NRA web site for verification of the undisputed fact that our bill of rights DOES NOT grant you the right to form a militia and to keep and bear arms...it is ENGLISH COMMON LAW that grants you that right. The NRA is wrong - as usual. Those are natural/God given rights. The gov can not "grant" something it does not possess.

Amendment X - The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Amendment IX - The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

[Pistolsmith]

Hondo:
None of that is in the bible or any other religious writing. Of course, you can MIS-INTERPRET anything, like the Devil quoting scripture, but a gathering of Barons forced King John to grant the rights in the Magna Charta more or less at swordpoint. God had nothing to do with it whatsoever; He was too busy looking out for the Hebrews to worry about a group of white anglo saxon Christians.
If you think the bill of rights is still in full effect, what about the one that grants every citizen the right to a jury trial for any civil matter of over $20.00 ? What a dreamer you are, lad. Come down from thine ivory tower and witness the real world as it is, crummy smells, imperfections and all.
If it isn't in the U.N. Charter, don't count on it. And, no matter how often I read it, I can't find a bill of rights with a second amendment in that document.

[Coronach]

Gee, Corny, are you implying that YOU are a better informed person that some of your posters? Please let us in on the information you think you have.No. I'm stating that posts without supporting documentation are of dubious value. You could be 100% correct, well-informed and wise. You could also be a tinfoil-clad conspiracy theorist who is completely talking out of his buttocks. Having read only a handful of posts by you on this thread alone, I'm hardly prepared to take your word as Gospel absent some documentation, in the same manner that you would be reluctant to do the same of me.

I post this on the off-chance that you have not yet left the forum. ;)

Mike

PS Ok, I'll bite:If you think the bill of rights is still in full effect, what about the one that grants every citizen the right to a jury trial for any civil matter of over $20.00 ?What about it?

[hondo68]

MILITIA - When Diplomacy and Reason Fail

[Pistolsmith]

Well, you only have to post something that refutes what I've said, together with your documentation. I've read your posts and I can't find any documentation for anything. Why do you demand things from others that you don't provide?
And, incidentally, have you found ANY STATEMENT from the government prior to Ruby Ridge and Waco that detail their strategy and tactics? All I know is what others, who are members of LE and the army, have told me. And, this was corroborated early on by others above.
Well, go ahead and post a quote from the Director of the FBI, the ATF or DEPTAR that states something like "Our intentions are to never, ever fire on Americans who refuse to surrender their weapons when ordered to do so by a federal agency." That bit of research should take the rest of your life. And, if you don't believe it, I don't blame you much. If you squint your eyes really hard, and you look off into the distance, across the purple hills, you can pretend you didn't see the tapes on the Waco murders, or you can pretend they were fakes.
Don't any of you parlor patriots get your fanny stuck in the door; I'm slamming it shut really hard this time. go ahead, bubba, pronounce your benediction.
If any of you gents don't know me, I spent most of my adult life in my state's militia, until it was disbanded by federal law and I lost my commission thereby. That gives me a right to some common courtesy and a few opinions on militias; at least that's what I thought until I met some of you.
.

[Coronach]

No, sir. You are always entitled to your opinions, and you have the right to voice them to whomever is willing to listen. However, you make an assertion like this:The Federal government considers private militias to be "terrorist organizations" and the U.S. Army has been trained to eliminate them through urban and suburban warfare. On 9/11 the troops of the 2nd division were standing by to invade Idaho and Montana, should they have become visible.reasonable people are going to expect you to back it up with more then rhetoric.

Mike

[Soap]

Aliens exist! Coronach, disprove it otherwise its true! :rolleyes:

[PATH]

What a fascinating thread this has turned out to be. The whole of law enforcement could not catch two maniacs running around shooting innocent people. I don't believe for a minute that they are omniscient. Remember the white van?

The Feds probably do cruise sights like this one on a regular basis and may plant messages to see who "bites" as it were. As for invasion of states with militia.....well.....I don't think so.

Resistance on a cell level works quite well.....see Mao(China) and Collins(Ireland) for proof of this. I don't see a need for any resistance of this sort here in the USA as we still, last time I checked, have democratic elections.

If you think that American soldiers will not fire on Americans when ordered to do so you had best think again. They will fire when ordered to do so. Take a group of protesters and park yourself in downtown Washington DC. Tell the feds you are there to change the government!:D Tienamen square all over again.:neener:

You all may find that truth is found between the position of the "pragmatists" and the "tin-foil hat" crowd.

Okay. This is my mind wandering all over the place tin foil hat post for the month.

:D

[amprecon]

I agree that smaller units of "non-professionally trained" combatants/sabotuers would seem more effective than larger units of "non-professionally trained" combatants/sabotuers. They present a lower profile and less "leak" and/or "sell-out" potential.
However, save for the more "highly" trained units, I don't fear the common American combat troop.
I don't know if anyone else caught it on t.v., but there was a demonstration regarding the latest chemical suit that the troops were to wear and the female soldier that was donning it collapsed from the heat of the camera lights on stage.
Something else, have any of you ever watched the latest "Boot Camp" series that documents these kids going through boot camp? There was a couple for the Army and a few shown for the Marines. I thought it was pathetic and lost faith in the capability of our standard combat forces at that point. Now granted that some may go on to more specialized training, but for the most part it was lame and pathetic, girls and boys crying because of this or that pain, blisters, people yelling at them all the time, no sleep, no phone calls or MTV or cigarettes. Or they miss their mommies and daddies or boyfriends or girlfriends.
I went through Navy boot camp in '87, and though it didn't compare with the Army let alone the Marine boot camps of the day, I would say that it was more difficult than what I've witnessed on those documentaries I saw.
Either way, I'd never proclaim membership in any organization like that anyway.

[Gordon]

Oh now 'pistolsmith' has gone and given my three man cell plan away! I was general with my three sons as captains, being a general I of course could stay in(on my) rear. Being less than 5 man squad threshold gubbamint wouldn't waste smart munition. Would probably send cops and one of my sons is one so he'd know theyd be coming. Anyway US soldiers wouldnt disarm militia, imported UN troops would who would love to shoot US patriots.:uhoh:BTW"The Feds probably do cruise sights like this one on a regular basis and may plant messages to see who "bites" as it were." To those feds I say"hey you Rat turds "bite on this". Molon Lave:cuss: :fire:

[Don Gwinn]

Folks, I remind you all:

If you make an assertion, it is your responsibility to provide evidence. It is NOT the responsibility of others to prove you wrong.

Pistolsmith, if you're reading this (and we all know you are) the problem has nothing to do with your views. The problem is rooted in your attitude. There are things we don't do here. We don't call each other names, for instance.

[NIGHTWATCH]

I dont know much about the militia except that I believe it to be "the people". I believe that so long as at least half of our nations citizens are armed, that the government has little chance of disarming us with our armed forces (causing a division of the country not seen since the civil war). I also believe it is an issue of will power. What are YOU prepared to do and sacrifice. I love my life but I love my country more and Im not alone. And I think that most politicians know this. It would be open season on politicians, judges, lawyers, police and military officials. Anyone and everyone involved in our demise. And we would win, if the will is present. :fire:


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants - Thomas Jefferson

[Wildalaska]

Kin ah take off mah tinfoil hat now?

WildtheyareaftermeAlaska

[Oracle]

From what I've seen, the Militia Movement finally died on 9/11. Now, there are still militias, but public support for them has waned to the point that there is little to no support for militias in public opinion now. What's more, and this is the real kicker, is that most of the decent and normal people, the people who were mostly just concerned about the state of their country have left the militia groups. What is left of the militia movement is largely comprised of reactionaries, racists and Christian Identity adherents, and other nutballs. The decent people who once swelled the ranks of these organizations have left these groups and mostly formed small family-and-friends survival groups that don't advertise and that don't want attention. What you have left are the "true believers", the better of these are simply nuts and reactionaries who believe every conspiracy theory they come across, the worse are Christian Identity adherents and theocrats who want to overthrow the government and establish a theocracy based upon their twisted beliefs. I'd avoid the "militias" of today like the plague.

[2nd Amendment]

Guess you should actually have some contact with one instead of just reading the latest press releases then, Oracle. 9/11 saw a serious upswell in interest. The Patriot Act, et al, sparked more interest. And while the nuts exist, like the example I provided earlier, they are still a minority and public support for the majority seems to have improved noticeably. In short, I'm not quite certain how you could have been more wrong in a single post.

[Oracle]

2nd Amendment,

I have had some contact with one, several, actually. There are two "militia groups" in the Georgia area, the "Militia of Georgia" and the "Georgia Militia Emergency Response Team", who split off from the first group. Both are led by anti-semitic nutballs, one who is a Christian Identity adherent or sympathizer, and the other who calls himself a "Colonel". Both get maybe a 10 people each to go on their "FTX's" (usually a few guys and their young kids), while they might get double that at a meeting, when they are able to convince people to go to one. The "Militia of Georgia" has a strong Christian Identity element in it, and both groups spend more time badmouthing each other than virtually anything else. When these groups were together, around the end of 1999/beginning of 2000, they garnered upwards of 70-100 people per meeting, now they are lucky if they can even more than a handful of the "die-hards" together.

Kentucky is another state where most of the "militia groups" have scattered to the four winds, after the "state commander", Charlie Puckett was convicted of being a felon in possession of firearms, and another Kentucky militia member, Steve Anderson (who used to regularly broadcast a heavily racist and Christian Identity inspired radio program over shortwave while a militia member) shot a police officer, and to my knowledge is still at large, probably being hidden by Kentucky "militia members".

I'll bet you're proud to share the "militia" banner with these folks, aren't you?

So, I do keep up on the local "militia groups", and have seen them on the wane significantly since 9/11, at this point, both of the groups in GA are just the self-appointed "militia commanders" and their sycophantic hangers-on. They have absolutely no public support, and tolerate (and in some cases, privately encourage) anti-semitism and Christian Identity in their ranks. This isn't even to mention the myriad conspiracy theories that are spouted as "god's honest truth" by their "Commanders" and the few remaining members. Your area may be different, but here, it exactly as I have described.

[2nd Amendment]

I described our own area version of exactly what you're describing. He gets all the attention. The rest of us sit back and watch and shake our heads. These people aren't the militia, anymore than Je$$e Jackson is the average Democrat. They do, however, get the most attention and to know what's really going on you have to get past these bozos. Basically that means finding that 100 or more who no longer attend "those" meetings. They didn't cease to exist or suddenly change what they believe, they just figured out who they wanted to be associated with.

[Oracle]

2nd Amendment,

From those whom I've talked to or heard about, the 100 or more people who used to attend "those" meetings have, like I said, gone on to form small "friends-and-family" groups, solely comprised of people that they know they can trust, they don't advertise, and they don't consider themselves to be "militia groups", they refuse to organize on any larger level because of their horrible experiences with the "Militia of Georgia" and it's "Commander". The "Commander" of the "Militia of Georgia" continues to be recognized as the "go-to" man for the "militia" in the State of Georgia by other State militia groups, and he has actively caused problems for anyone who tries to start any other militia or militia-related group outside of his "command", who don't want to have anything to do with that anti-semitic idiot or his Christian Identity pals. This has virtually destroyed any chance of a non-corrupt "citizen's militia" in the State of Georgia.

From what I've heard, this is the situation in many States. Like I said previously, it may not be the situation where you are, but it is the situation here, and from what I've heard, in many other places.

[2nd Amendment]

No, we don't have an ego maniac who has managed to entrench himself. The maniacs are all known and pretty well dismissed. Likewise all I know have focused on their own small groups, though they maintain a loose association. Seems you're worse off than we are here. We've got a couple pretty good guys still coordinating things at the "state level" but the desire to create a fully organized state wide force does seem to have pretty well waned. The interest and involvement is still there though and fortunately mostly undamaged. But there is our local Geralisimo. :rolleyes: I've got to wonder how many he has scared off.

[bogie]

Heh - I think I met that Anderson fellow... At Knob Creek back in '97... Right before I offered to take on the Kentucky Militia single-handed... I didn't really appreciate the sudden turn that the conversation had toward "mud people" after some BS "broadcaster" showed up at the campfire... Puckett and the boys didn't really impress me either... Buncha skanky-haired (as opposed to neatly groomed hippie types) non-disciplined louts.

Dang, that was some good bourbon... Too bad I didn't have more of it, or I might have actually tried a first strike...

The Militia (as a concept) will be painted by the media as being a group of domestic terrorists - IMHO, considering some of the folks involved in the "organized" movements, that isn't all that far off, and it is rather insulting that these idiots are identifying themselves as "the Militia" rather than a bunch of cheap beer swilling racist bleeps. The "militia movement" died in OK City.

In reality, should nasty stuff happen, the Militia will be called upon to help - the call will more than likely be a "help your neighbors" dealie, but hey, that's what country folks do best. City folks, on the other hand, have their duct tape and plastic sheeting.

[Frohickey]

Aliens exist! Coronach, disprove it otherwise its true!

Aliens do exist. I've seen them. The few times that I've bumped into them, they speak in a strange language. If its not 'ew speeeky spanistch', its 'deniro for favor'. :D

[MitchSchaft]

Well, I've been interested in being apart of something like this. But, nobody has info and people are hard pressed to talk about it. It's like the subject is a big, dirty no-no.:scrutiny:

[Strings]

I'm supprised no-one else noticed this one. "The militia has been outlawed by the federal government"...

When did the gooberment outlaw every able-bodied man between the ages of 16 &65?:evil:

[Frohickey]

I think others here have the same sentiment, about finding other like-minded individuals and to do some 'fun' stuff with.

All you have to do is go meet up with some like-minded people. Perhaps in some tactical pistol shooting events, or 3-gun matches. Maybe even a SASS event if you guys think that 3-gun events are not SHTF enough. :o

After that, you can try for some extended outdoor events. Hiking trips with rifles (aka hunting). You don't need the false mystique of the word 'militia', attached to your group of friends.

Usually, it takes a bit of time of cultivate these types of friends, and some will drop off if their interest wanes. But that happens in every group, even 'militia' groups. Its up to the group members to picque up interest in the events.