Elevated threat level-will you now carry a rifle in the car too?


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geegee
August 1, 2004, 03:50 PM
Just wondering how many of you who already carry concealed, or carry a "car gun", will now add a rifle to your vehicle? Is it sensible or an over-reaction to add that AR-15 or SKS (or whatever you choice is) to your standard personal defense weapon? I'm not thinking about SHTF scenario's here, as much as deciding if it's prudent to have access to more gun, as opposed to more guns. Or have some of you already made that decision?

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SUE ROVR
August 1, 2004, 04:01 PM
I have decided to carry an extra couple hundred extra rounds

HK_UMP.45
August 1, 2004, 04:15 PM
Considering that the threat is pretty limited to the Wall st. financial district and the fact that my mother works in that area, I'd say other than keeping your eyes open, theres not much the average citizen can legally do. Living just outside of NYC, I make an effort to know the laws of both the state and the city.

It is ILLEGAL to cruise around with an AR or shotgun in NYC. If you live inside the city, you may purchase and own firearms, but they cant be IN the city. If you live outside the city, you may only bring firearms in if you are passing through to a range (but even that is debatable). No stopping to hit the Taco Smell, no nothin. As an interesting side note, a baseball bat in the trunk is considered a weapon unless theres a ball and glove rolling around in there too.

And we all know that legal concealed carry in the city is as rare as bigfoot. So this said, the best people can really do is keep their eyes open for beatup or rental trucks parked where they shouldnt.

Trust the NYPD... They're there to protect you :scrutiny:

Roadkill Coyote
August 1, 2004, 04:18 PM
I though the "elevated" threat level was only for financial institutions in certain citys. Besides which, assuming that the area you live in, and your vehicle, are such that you don't have to worry about your rifle, or whole car w/ rifle, getting stolen, why wouldn't you carry one? The decision making process should revolve around whether you can keep a rifle in your car discreetly and safely, not whether the threat level is up or down.

Many of us carry handguns to be ready for relatively unlikely circumstances, why should we hold having a much more effective defense weapon to a differant standard?

boing
August 1, 2004, 04:23 PM
Rifles are of little use against car bombs.

HK_UMP.45
August 1, 2004, 04:29 PM
2x on that

Roadkill Coyote
August 1, 2004, 04:33 PM
.Rifles are of little use against car bombs.

Although having a rifle in the area of any of the elevated threat levels, in New York, DC, or Newark in going to be precluded by law and lots of local security, having a rifle would not necessarily be useless.

The terrorists have, on more than one occasion, used gunmen to clear away security before driving car bombs into target areas in Saudi. Our targets are on busy streets so its less likely here, but they have used that tactic, and if I was working a security checkpoint in the area of a potential target, I would certainly want a rifle within reach

Majic
August 1, 2004, 05:37 PM
Let's suppose you are in one of the financial districts and the terrorists attack. You stop your vehicle and get your long gun out of the trunk. Now considering we are a multi-national, multi-race, multi-custom country, exactly who are you going to shoot? Is that person one of the terrorist or just another US citizen with your very same idea to protect his/her country?
Also remember that the other person could be thinking the same thing about you standing there with a rifle in your hands.

AK103K
August 1, 2004, 06:21 PM
Rifles are of little use against car bombs.
They can be hell on the driver though. :)

boofus
August 1, 2004, 06:42 PM
I probably won't carry a rifle since the only one I currently have is an old German K98k bolt action... I sold all my semi-autos in anticipation of AWB sunset. I might start carrying extra mags for my CCW though.

I'm wondering if Houston might also be targeted because of the refineries, George Bush airport, NASA, and Ellington AFB. :scrutiny:

Double Naught Spy
August 1, 2004, 06:53 PM
Right after 9/11, I was at Academy Sports and spoke with the guy who sells the guns and ammo. I was looking for cleaner. Anyway, I noticed most of the ammo was gone! He laughed and noted that apparently people think they are going to stop airplanes from dropping out of the sky with .380! About the only ammo they had plenty of was birdshot and some of the more unique rifle calibers.

As noted, you won't stop a crashing 747 with a .380 and you won't stop a car bomb with a rifle. They won't do squat to the driver unless you know the driver is driving a car bomb. That is the thing about car bombs. You don't know they are a bomb until they explode. Sometimes the driver is exploding with it. A rifle would have done no good in OKA when that van bomb went off. So just what hell are you going to do to the driver with a rifle? Maybe you a friends at the psychic friends network to let you know? Speaking of which, if psychics were really psychic, they would be really helpful about now, but they don't do crap.

So the threat level has been raised in some areas. Odds are that you are still much more likely to be the victim of some crackhead crime than one of a terrorist. If you carry a rifle in your car for crackheads, then continue. If you don't, do you really think you will be using it against a terrorist.

Ironbarr
August 1, 2004, 07:17 PM
I would suggest toting a rifle - more particularly openly carrying or even showing a rifle on the streets of NYC would get you multitudes of LEO .223/.40/9mm bullets coming quickly in your direction. At Orange it'd probably be "shoot/ask later.

Marko Kloos
August 1, 2004, 07:25 PM
I already have a rifle in the trunk anyway...however, I did recently retire the Steyr M95 in favor of a Norinco SKS. The trunk also contains a Chinese bandolier in a plastic bag, with 200 rounds on stripper clips.

Excessive? Maybe to some folks. The way I see it, it doesn't take up much space, and if I ever need it, I reckon I'll be glad it's there.

That said, I don't think East TN is a high priority for the terrorists. Oak Ridge nearby may be a desirable target, but those DOE security dudes are some tough (and well-armed) hombres.

Texian Pistolero
August 1, 2004, 07:29 PM
I increased my response level (locked and loaded a Bushy) about two hours ago, after reading the threat on CNN.

Obviously, the good guys may or may not have been fed some disinformation. All it takes is fifty cents.

But you may be assured of one thing. Whatever happens, 300 meters of where I I'm standing is covered.

[Ethnic slur redacted by Matt G.]

Roadkill Coyote
August 1, 2004, 07:54 PM
Majic
Let's suppose you are in one of the financial districts and the terrorists attack. You stop your vehicle and get your long gun out of the trunk.
As I pointed out, its not practical for a non-LEO in the currently discussed threat areas, nor do I think anyone has suggested that it was.

Double Naught Spy
That is the thing about car bombs. You don't know they are a bomb until they explode.
Demonstrably untrue.
Government officials said that gunmen tried to enter the compound, and there was an exchange of fire with security guards. BBC coverage of a bombing in Saudi in which Al-Qaeda attempted to use a police car to get closer to the target, and when that failed exchanged gunfire with security while trying to get the car closer to its target. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3254103.stm)
In one of the attacks, gunmen driving a black sedan are reported to have shot their way into the residential compound.
Yet again, in what is obviously a planned tactic, Al-Qaeda uses gunmen to pin down security while driving the bomb in. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3022473.stm)


Since Al-Qaeda has sucessfully used the tactic twice, I think its safe to say that there is a risk of them doing it again.

feedthehogs
August 1, 2004, 08:22 PM
I've carried a shotgun and an AR in the truck for 15 years. When I buy a truck with an extended cab, a priority has to be space behind the back seat.

Not for protection, but if I feel like hitting the range or I'm in a new area with a range I havn't been too, I'm covered without going to the house first.

Devonai
August 1, 2004, 09:05 PM
Manchester has had a mean streak of car window bustings lately. Even with the valet switch for the trunk activated, one with time and effort could access the trunk. I have a $50 H&R single-shot 12ga I could put back there, so the monetary loss isn't an issue. But the idea of some punk running around with my shotgun isn't nice.

My Beretta 92 goes with me everywhere, and I have enough magazines to carry 61 rounds should I choose. A long arm does not fit the mission profile.

Ironbarr
August 1, 2004, 09:18 PM
I have an H&R ss 12g that I bought 50+ years back. Still a reliable firearm. Now you wouldn't put that good one of yours in harm's way, would you? ;)

Devonai
August 1, 2004, 09:28 PM
:D

My only other long arms are a ca. 1943 SA M1 Garand and a ca. 1944 Enfield #4 mk1. While I would probably laugh at the thought of some punk trying to figure out how to use the Enfield, the Garand cost me about twelve times what I paid for the H&R. I would not want to lose it.

I actually refer to my H&R in my book (see sig), in some passing comment involving the Marquis de Sade. :evil:

magsnubby
August 1, 2004, 09:34 PM
This ain't the freakin' middle east. A rifle won't do you a bit of good. Do you really belive a well planned terriost attack is preventable by a citizen with a rifle in the trunk of their car?

98 % of the US population still walks around in condition white. Terrorist don't need to shoot their way into a building they just drive into it and boom.

The whole thing will be over before you can say "What the......

HarryB
August 1, 2004, 09:45 PM
This ain't the freakin' middle east. A rifle won't do you a bit of good. Do you really belive a well planned terriost attack is preventable by a citizen with a rifle in the trunk of their car?

tell that to the Israeli woman who took out a suicide bomber in a market before he could detonate...

Lone_Gunman
August 1, 2004, 10:09 PM
Delusions of grandeur run rampant here at times.

No, I don't have a rifle in the trunk.

What exactly would be the scenario where a rifle in my trunk would do me any good? I mean, lets just say I saw something happening, wouldn't it take a little while to pull over, get out the gun, and then run back to whatever was happening?

Carry a rifle in the trunk if it makes you feel better, but just have the honesty to admit all its doing is making you feel better.

My guess is if you pull out a rifle during a terrorist attack, you will probably be the first one the FBI snipers drop.

JohnKSa
August 1, 2004, 10:41 PM
When you need a rifle, there's really nothing else that will fit the bill.

As long as it's legal, it's better to have than to wish you had.

magsnubby
August 1, 2004, 11:22 PM
As i said this is the US not some freakin' third world country.

Roadkill Coyote
August 2, 2004, 01:21 AM
As i said this is the US not some freakin' third world country.
Unfortunately, we have more of a problem with complacency than some third world countries.

davec
August 2, 2004, 01:43 AM
The NYC PD, Newark PD, and Port Authority police along with the National Guard and others from departments im not privy too who are currently on the sidewalks and subway stations, tunnels, and bridges etc etc have automatic weapons.

A civilian with a rifle here (aside from being illegal) is probably going to find themselves very shot very quickly if they display it during a situation.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040801/capt.nr10308012145.terror_threat_nr103.jpg

But those of you in bumbleheck rural America who think Bin Laden has your town (population 500) targeted for attack, well if it makes you feel better...keep one in the car. Its a free country.

JohnKSa
August 2, 2004, 01:50 AM
As i said this is the US not some freakin' third world country.The only bright spot in 911 was when citizens got involved and overwhelmed the terrorists on the DC bound plane. They used eating utensils and whatever they had to hand.

It's not so far-fetched to think that citizens might thwart another terrorist attack in the U.S.A civilian with a rifle here ... is probably going to find themselves very shot very quickly if they display it during a situation.I seem to recall a lot of armed citizens getting involved in the UT sniper case--not one was shot by the police. Anyway, if the police are present and armed then there's not much reason for a citizen to grab a rifle. If they're not present or have been neutralized then they're not going to be shooting anyone.

The legality issue is another story.

DevilDog
August 2, 2004, 11:30 AM
A civilian with a rifle here ... is probably going to find themselves very shot very quickly if they display it during a situation.

A valid point, undercover, plain clothes and off duty LEOs do get shot by arriving-on-scene LEOs on occassion.

But... if you believe your life is in danger, do you not arm yourself because an LEO might show up and might shoot you thinking you are the bad guy?

9/11 terrorists relied on the idea that the entire crew was trained and passengers were expected to automatically submit, allowing them to do whatever.

Regardless of the risk, the right and the only appropriate thing to do when confronted by a criminal or a terrorist is to resist to the best of your ability. I know (from experience) that is much easier said on a forum than acting on it.

Lone_Gunman
August 2, 2004, 12:20 PM
Could someone please describe the imaginary terrorist scenario where a rifle in the trunk of one's car would do any good to prevent an attack?

JohnKSa
August 2, 2004, 12:32 PM
Lone Gunman,

A real life (not imaginary) example of how an armed Israeli stopped a terrorist attack has already been provided.

And I already mentioned that the UT sniper was an example of citizens needing long guns against a criminal. Not a terrorist as we typically think of it today, but certainly it was a terroristic attack.

The Hollywood bank robbery might have been wrapped up a little sooner if a citizen with a rifle had been present. Not that he would have whipped it out and started shooting, but I'm sure any police officer on the scene would have been very grateful to be offered the use of it. It would have been faster than having to commandeer them from a local store. I don't think it's hard to imagine scenarios where a citizen's long gun might be of use to police on the scene of a terrorist attack.

Are you trying to talk people out of legally carrying long arms in their vehicles? I can't imagine why you would want to do that...

hso
August 2, 2004, 12:47 PM
An "elevated threat level" won't motivate me to toss a rifle in the car.

SRYnidan
August 2, 2004, 12:52 PM
I think there are a couple of disturbing trains of thought getting started here.
First if you think that only the places listed are under threat try again.
If you were a terrorist would you not consider striking a secondary target if the mission security on the first is blown and your adversary was concentrating his assets?

Second view the video from Afghanistan the attack will be fast and violent if your equipment is not immediately at hand you will not have time to go fetch it.

CAS700850
August 2, 2004, 12:54 PM
While I love the idea of an armed citizen thwarting a terrorist incident, I will not be carryiong a long gun in my vehicle for such purposes.

First of all, I find myself without a proper long gun at this time. I know, my fault, and trust me, I am saving funds to correct this problem ASAP!

Second, if and (God forbid) when I find myself in the middle of such a situation, I will be limited to what I have close at hand, simply because I will likely be a good distance from my vehicle. Whether it be at work (one block away) at the Mall (across the mall), the store (out in the parking lot) or where ever, I will need to fight my way to the long gun. Not a very optimistic situation, I'm afraid.

Third, if I was able to get to my long gun, I fear that I become a target for both sides of the battle, and I don't want to be in that situation. Rather not be shot in the back by a responding police officer who sees a dark haired, tan skinned individual armed with a rifle and decides I must be a terrorist.

Fourth, and a real concern for me, is that car break-ins are a serious concern. While I'm willing to take the rist with a car stereo, CD's, a knife, a multi-tool, and some other miscelaneous items, I am not willing to risk a firearm in this way. Too expensive, too valuable (beyond cash to me) and too dangerous to the rest of the world. Maybe if I could secure it in some type of safe mounted in the vehicle...

The only place where easy access to a long gun will be helpful is at my home, and fortunately, my neighborhood is way donw the list of terrorist targets.

marklbucla
August 2, 2004, 12:55 PM
Could someone please describe the imaginary terrorist scenario where a rifle in the trunk of one's car would do any good to prevent an attack?

What if you saw them in the preliminary staging period of an attack? Maybe stuffing a bomb in the back of the truck a few blocks or even miles away from their target?

I agree that a rifle would probably be useless in preventing a terrorist attack and that only major cities are likely to be targeted, but what if one could have been stopped in your local area? Not to mention the other non-anti-terrorist uses for a truck/car gun.

A good shotgun can run as cheap as $150 and I know a rifle could be had for a little more than that. Just look at this as an excuse to buy another gun!

Swamprabbit
August 2, 2004, 12:57 PM
No I don't. Since I have no intentions of carrying the rifle in an easily accessible manner, I don't see any circumstance where I can do any good by having one in the vehicle with me.

R.H. Lee
August 2, 2004, 01:06 PM
I'm not likely to decide to engage a bunch of terrorists in a firefight. What is the scenario? Maybe a bunch of terrorists firing into a crowd with fully auto AK's, RPG's and who knows what else? So I'm gonna run to the trunk of my car, pull out my trusty SKS and hand full of stripper clips and take them on????

Right. :rolleyes:

If I survive the initial attack I'll be ducking and running for cover as fast as I can.

Double Naught Spy
August 2, 2004, 01:10 PM
Roadkill Coyote, you are correct, sort of. Sometimes car bombs are spotted and or stopped before they reach their destination and sometimes somebody can do something about it. The examples I have seen so far have been in other countries where the activities are a little more common than here. I should have said that the thing about car bombs is that you usually don't know they are a car bomb until they go off. Happy? Good, as we have crap for a record in the US of stopping such events. We, the US, has crap for a record of stopping such events in front of our soldiers barracks in foreign countries or in front of our embassies.

Could a car bombing be stopped? Sure, but you gotta spot the car bomb in advance of the explosion. How do you do that? As you are driving down the highway and you see another vehicle, one of a million in NYC today, how do you tell it is a car bomb? And once that you, as John Q. Public has identified it as such, do you just open fire with that rifle you are carrying with you in the car? Inquiring minds want to know. Every moment you wait places that car bomb that much closer to an intended target or alternate target. What do you do?

At the same time, I think Swamprabbit is at the other end of the scale a little too far by believing there is nothing he could do with a rifle. First, there is very little chance any one of us Americans will be in harm's way of a terroristic attack. Of those that are, only a very small percentage will have any idea what is going on and even a smaller percentage will know what to do or how to do it. The fact of the matter is that regardless of the terror threat level, we are all still hugely more likely to be the victim of some other type of crime, such as from a crackhead as I noted above, not a terrorist.

If you are going to be carrying a rifle in response to the threat level and potential risk of car bombs and the like, you would be remiss if you are not wearing a flak jacket or ballistic armor. The rifle won't do squat in protecting you from the explosion, but a vest will.

Richardson
August 2, 2004, 01:20 PM
A rifle may or may not be useful against a car bomber, I wouldn't know.

If that car bomb were to be more deadly than the initial "boom" (meaning, it was a nuclear or biological weapon), then I might well want a rifle to help me get home. Panic and opportunists can cause a lot of problems. Having something handy (AK clone, M4 clone, or for PC purposes, a Winchester '94 or a shotgun) could go a long way in helping deter some wayward souls from thinking about you as a target...

Richardson

Diamondback
August 2, 2004, 01:21 PM
HIGHLY unlikely a rifle would be of any use.....if one did happen to be in the vicinity of a terrorist bomb attack one would probably be more concerned with helping pull bodies out of rubble or assisting the wounded until medical aid arrived. A good first aid kit, a pair of work boots, a jug of water, some energy bars, a blanket and perhaps some surgical masks for the dust all would be MUCH more useful......and don't forget to review basic first aid proceedures soon.

-regards

Smoke
August 2, 2004, 01:34 PM
An "elevated threat level" won't motivate me to toss a rifle in the car.

Amen.

Islamic terrorists are pretty far down the scale of realistic threats out here.
But Crawford and Fort Hood (Largest Military Base) are within 30 miles.

I already carry a long hun with me everywhere I go...I just don't entertain fantasies of stopping car bombs, towel heads or 727's.

Coyotes and feral hogs are more likely.

Smoke

JohnKSa
August 2, 2004, 01:44 PM
So far, all of the arguments against are pretty much the standard fare the antis use against CHL.

Likely to get shot by mistake.

Not likely to need it.

Not likely to be able to use it effectively or determine when to use it correctly.

Police will protect you.

Kind of amusing in a twisted sort of way...

I don't think that anyone's arguing that it's LIKELY you'll need a rifle. However, it's not impossible that you would, and if you did (or if someone else did--as with the cops in the North Hollywood bank robbery), nothing else will work.

Boats
August 2, 2004, 02:05 PM
The main difference in the arguments between not having the desire to pack a rifle and CHL arguments made by the anits is the "C" part.

My own view is that a concealed handgun is practical because it is a go anywhere, do anything proposition. A rifle, at a minimum, is brandished upon presentation.

The last time I carried a rifle in the trunk was during the Rodney King riots, even though I didn't live in LA. I did live in a city at the time and wasn't taking any chances. General social breakdown is the only thing that will see me packing a rifle as a constant companion.

Since I am packing a .357 magnum revolver more and more, if I need range out of my concealed handgun, I can summon it. I can, single action, hit a torso sized gong at about 100m these days about 2/3rds+ of the time and I get better every time out. At least the .357 still has a lot left when it gets out that far compared with most handgun calibers. I don't forsee a time like in Open Range where you will be able to openly tote a loaded rifle or shottie without getting busted or ostracized by the sheeple.

Roadkill Coyote
August 2, 2004, 03:16 PM
Double Naught Spy

The examples I have seen so far have been in other countries where the activities are a little more common than here. Complacency we have crap for a record in the US of stopping such events. We, the US, has crap for a record of stopping such events in front of our soldiers barracks in foreign countries or in front of our embassies. and a poor track record go hand in hand.



As for your straw man about driving down the highway, obviously if you thought there was a car bomb driving down the highway, you would call the police, and get out of the way. No one here has suggested that a rifle is the only or even the preferred solution.

aguyindallas
August 2, 2004, 03:30 PM
The best thing about THR is that we can all express our opinions freely without ripping peoples heads off over our differences.

I am also curious about who will and won't "arm up" in these times. It seems that most of the responses have been why you should or shouldnt "arm up" for various reasons.

Lets get to the basics here....who is going to arm up in this situation?

Ironbarr
August 2, 2004, 03:51 PM
WHO?

Now THAT"S a leading question.

Gone.

spartacus2002
August 2, 2004, 03:54 PM
well, I won't throw a rifle in my car, but I will take my 1911 everywhere I go.

R.H. Lee
August 2, 2004, 03:55 PM
Lets get to the basics here....who is going to arm up in this situation?

I think most of us are already there, at least with limited firepower small arms and a modest amount of ammo for same. :p

Roadkill Coyote
August 2, 2004, 04:52 PM
Lets get to the basics here....who is going to arm up in this situation? No changes here. But as I said earlier, the real question is; it it practical for you to have a long arm in the car? If it is, then why not? If it isn't then don't. Practicality is more important that alerts in distant and well covered areas.

Nathaniel Firethorn
August 2, 2004, 04:59 PM
Bought some cigars in case AQ decides to attack Exit 8A and cuts off our smog supply. :D

Other than that, no changes.

- pdmoderator

Dead
August 2, 2004, 05:52 PM
I would vote for staying away from the "Orange Zones" simply because the total grid lock that all the police activity has caused.

For example in Newark, NJ today, there were some areas that were completely shut down, noone in noone out of the area.

Total over reaction, nothing is going to happen, other than frightening many people to near death, and causing some major traffic problems.

AK103K
August 2, 2004, 06:10 PM
Lets get to the basics here....who is going to arm up in this situation?
Whats this situation got to do with it? I've had a rifle and/or shotgun in the truck and a 1911 in its holster daily for about 30+ years now. Terrorists dont scare me, its them damned rabid raccons, skunks and squirrels that are the real dangerous things! :)

geekWithA.45
August 2, 2004, 06:41 PM
Didn't toss a rifle into the car,

But I did swap out the P245 (6+1) for the Para 14.45 (14+1) :)

My "normal" load out is the sig, 1x6 round mags, 1x8 round mags. Nice and light.

In honor of the orange, I'm keeping the para and 3x14 mags close to hand.


Do I really think I'm going to run into an Al-Q?

Probably not.

But perhaps, the point is that they should be worrying about running into ME.

They don't know who I am, what I look like, or where I'll turn up next.

:evil:

Lone_Gunman
August 2, 2004, 07:29 PM
What if you saw them in the preliminary staging period of an attack? Maybe stuffing a bomb in the back of the truck a few blocks or even miles away from their target?


So you are going to shoot someone stuffing a "bomb" in a truck?

I have no idea what a truck bomb would look like, do you?

You have got to be kidding with this idea of a pre-emptive strike. Hope you have a good lawyer on retainer... this looks like a good way to get charged with murder unless you really know what you are doing.


Wasn't the UT sniper a case from 40 years ago?

LASur5r
August 2, 2004, 07:42 PM
You did ask if we will start carrying a rifle in the car NOW?
I thought most of the gun folks were already carrying one in the car trunk, especially after the Hollywood bank robbery....
Of course, in Kali, we are not supposed to use our rifles....not unless we are really in close range.....hard to justify self-defense in this state for closer than really really close range, even with a handgun.
I carry one just for the warm and fuzzy and a reminder of the 60's when we could mail order a weapon and have it delivered to our homes.

JohnKSa
August 2, 2004, 09:19 PM
The main difference in the arguments between not having the desire to pack a rifle and CHL arguments made by the anits is the "C" part.

My own view is that a concealed handgun is practical because it is a go anywhere, do anything proposition. A rifle, at a minimum, is brandished upon presentation. None of the arguments I listed had anything to do with concealment.

As far as brandishing, substitute 'pistol' for 'rifle' in your statement and you will see that they are identical...

I agree that handguns are good for things that rifles aren't--that's why there are no CRL (concealed rifle licenses ;) ), but it's also true that rifles can do things that pistols can't. Having one in the trunk where it's legal is surely not going to cause any harm and it just might come in handy.

Lone_Gunman,

Are you trying to talk people out of legally carrying long arms in their vehicles? Why would you want to do that?

warrior23
August 2, 2004, 09:45 PM
Always did always will...

Jim730
August 2, 2004, 09:53 PM
As someone who lives in NJ (just outside of NYC), and frequents NYC, I can honestly say I have no intention to carry a rifle in my truck, not only is it a problem in NJ or NYC I really dont see the point. As mentioned before, I cant use it to shoot down a 747 and wouldnt know it was a truck bomb until it blew up. They will hit the area again as sad as it is to say. And around here we deal with elevated threats all the time and everyone just seems to have gotten used to it. After 9/11 it became a fact of life here, seeing cops on ever street corner, hitting traffic at the bridges for searches and airports, etc. No one around here or the country for that matter will ever forget 9/11, however, I doubt another attack is completely preventable rifle in the truck or not. Just my opinion at least.

Lone_Gunman
August 2, 2004, 10:06 PM
Are you trying to talk people out of legally carrying long arms in their vehicles?

No, I just think people should recognize their limitations. Pre-emptively striking suspected terrorists might get you a trip to jail.

Carrying a rifle in your trunk is an OK idea, from a general preparedness standpoint, but just because the "threat level" is increased doesn't seem to me to make a better idea.

Basically, though, I think the threat level system is pretty bogus. You, for example are in North Texas and I am in South Georgia. Both are pretty low on the list of potential targets I would suspect, and I would guesstimate having a rifle in either our trunks will in no way change our chances of getting killed by a terrorist.

George Hill
August 2, 2004, 10:21 PM
Already do. Duh.

JohnKSa
August 2, 2004, 10:26 PM
For various reasons I don't carry a long gun in my vehicle and have no plans to start. I was just curious to know why you seem so dead set against it.You, for example are in North Texas...pretty low on the list of potential targets I would suspect...Pretty low crime in my area too, but I still carry a pistol.

Seriously, don't you see that your arguments are virtually exactly the same ones used against CCW in specific and firearms ownership in general?

magsnubby
August 2, 2004, 10:57 PM
Maybe if Dubya signed a national shall issue bill.......

"Be very,very careful Abdul....those crazy Americans all carry guns."

Lone_Gunman
August 2, 2004, 11:23 PM
Seriously, don't you see that your arguments are virtually exactly the same ones used against CCW in specific and firearms ownership in general?

Yes, I see the arguments are the same, but thats not really relevant.

I could use the same argument to justify not owning a lot of things.

Lets instead say we are talking about carrying a fire extinguisher in the trunk.

I say not to carry one because the chances of needing one are very small.

If you do need it, you won't be able to get to it in time.

If you do get to it, you might get burned up while using it.

And if you are using it, you might get run over by a firetruck arriving at the scene to put the fire out properly.

This is the exact same argument. Whether the argument is valid or not is subjective. I happen to think keeping a handgun nearby makes good sense. A rifle is less handy, harder to get too, and makes less sense, despite it being more effective. A Bradley fighting vehicle is even less handy than a rifle, but even more effective. The question is where to draw the line. If you want to carry a rifle, go for it, but I just don't see a good enough reason, or big enough threat, to justify having a gun in the trunk.

geegee
August 2, 2004, 11:28 PM
Carrying a rifle in your trunk is an OK idea, from a general preparedness standpoint, but just because the "threat level" is increased doesn't seem to me to make a better idea.
I agree with both of your points. I guess that part of what I was thinking when I posed this question was the quote by Clint Smith (which I'll have to paraphrase): A pistol is best used to fight your way to your rifle. Needless to say, the chance of engaging a terrorist in a gunfight and then trying to fight your way to your rifle is next to zero. But what about gauging the level or mindset of our preparedness? This is what I was interested in. If there are increased levels of danger in our country, should we then increase our own level of self defense options? A rifle surely offers that, but is not a reasonable choice for many of us.


Basically, though, I think the threat level system is pretty bogus. You, for example are in North Texas and I am in South Georgia. Both are pretty low on the list of potential targets I would suspect, and I would guesstimate having a rifle in either our trunks will in no way change our chances of getting killed by a terrorist.
Bogus? Yeah, probably. I think it really feeds the "Chicken Little" mindset for many Americans, and is completely ignored by the vast majority.

Interestingly enough, North Texas has been home to The Holy Land Foundation (which has been bankrolling a variety of terrorist organizations), and in fact the mastermind of the first WTC bombing lived in Arlington, which is twenty minutes away from me.

Jiml3
August 3, 2004, 04:14 PM
I live on Long Island, a surburb of NY and I have no intention on putting a rifle in the trunk nor carrying a handgun at this time of elevated alert. I
travel back and forth over the Whitestone bridge every day and and see the security. It's not the best but I'm not going to know for sure if that suspious truck ahead is carrying explosives or not. I'm going going to try something stupid like trying to stop him. If I feel it necessary, I will use the best weapon at hand, namely my cell phone. Call 911 and tell them my suspions and where I am located and a description of the vehicle and license plate. There are plenty of cops in vehicles there and I'm sure they have a plan for such a situation. I'll leave to the pros.

JohnKSa
August 3, 2004, 11:15 PM
.

Matt G
August 4, 2004, 02:35 AM
I had gotten away from carrying the SKS, which was my old truck rifle, in my vehicle. Something about driving a Civic, I guess. :)

At the inspiration of this rifle, I believe I'll just change that tomorrow. :)

atek3
August 4, 2004, 04:41 AM
Come to Jesus, towelhead

*** is that? "towelhead" on THR.
Come on.
towelhead :rolleyes:

atek3

atek3
August 4, 2004, 04:42 AM
If I had a car, I'd have a BOB and my m-39 mosin in the trunk. Not to "fight terrorism", but as a general SHTF protection kit.

atek3

Lone_Gunman
August 4, 2004, 07:59 AM
atek3, I think the person who used the term towelhead (it wasn't me) was doing so in reference to terrorists, and not Middle Easterners in general.

Obviously racial slurs at all Middle Easterners or bad and not to be tolerated, but I am not sure how much sense it makes to get offended at the use of racial or other slurs against terrorists.

I mean, if you are willing to shoot and kill them, it would seem verbally insulting them really wouldn't be much of a big deal.

I guess you don't want them to die with low self esteem.

jAK-47
August 4, 2004, 09:58 AM
IMHO (no flame), the argument that one would probably not need or be able to use a trunk LG isn't very good. If it is illegal to have a LG in your trunk or you are afraid it will be stolen THOSE are valid arguments against having a LG in the trunk.

Personally, I carry a CCW pistol every day. The odds of my winning the lottery two weeks in a row aren't much lower than my having to ever use a gun against a BG. The odds of my ever having to use a trunk LG in self defense or to stop a terrorist/nutjob are ASTRONOMICAL.

Having said that I have a Saiga .223 arriving this week and it will go in the trunk of my car. It will be secured with a quick-release combo lock (it would only slow down a determined thief but...) and UNLOADED. I plan to keep loaded mags in my car gun safe along with about 100 rounds in the glove box - for plinking at the range, not to start WWIII.

I want a LG in my trunk for plinking/varmint opportunities. As I said before, the odds are very much against my ever using it for defense or to prevent something nasty from happening. And the way I plan to secure the LG would make it VERY difficult to bring it into action quickly.

There are scenarios where it could be useful to stop a nut from doing something BUT, as someone already pointed out, responding LEO's may not ask you politely if you are on their side. You could also take a round in the back from an off-duty LEO OR another CCW who thought YOU were the problem.

It would be a very UNIQUE situation where I thought I could do more good than harm and could actually bring my LG into the fight. And I would be taking a BIG chance that I'd get shot by the BG or someone else OR ruined by a DA or the family of the BG in civil court. I just cannot be sure what I'd do.

Getting out of the way and using my cell phone to call the professionals would probably be the best course of action. If I saw a nut shooting at a loaded school bus or some similar tragedy I couldn't walk away; I'd have to do whatever I could - including ramming the idiot with my car.

All the arguments that a LG in the trunk would probably never be helpful are hard to dismiss. But if someone like me wants to legally keep an unloaded, "secured" LG in the trunk I don't think it makes me crazy. They're selling a LOT of parachutes to people who work in tall buildings and a lot of us store over 5,000 rounds of ammo, multiple mags, multiple guns, etc.

Maybe I've seen too many action movies but I just don't understand why the topic of LG in trunk stimulates such heated debates, and from PRO-GUN people. You either think it's useful or not; you either would or would not put one in your trunk. If it's legal for you to carry a LG in your trunk I can't see how it would make you LESS safe. If you want to carry 4 backup guns in your undies - go for it; having women stare at your crotch can be good for the ego:D

Don't plan on ever using a trunk LG, a parachute to escape from a building or any of the 4 backup guns in your undies. But if you're not breaking the law and it makes you feel better, don't let people decide what's right for you. Even Theresa Heinz Kerry believes in people having an opinion :rolleyes:

WAIT - NEWS FLASH - Here's what Tom Ridge discovered in HIS trunk today!
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/15916Osama_in_Trunk1.jpg

jAK-47
P.S. - Using the term "towel heads" to describe terrorists is the same as using the term "spic" or "******" or "kike" to describe a criminal who happens to be Hispanic, Black or Jewish, etc. It cannot be justified and is a sign of ignorance. Using an ethnic slur to describe even a tiny percentage of a certain population is still JUST THAT - AN INTOLERABLE ETHNIC SLUR.

QuarterBoreGunner
August 4, 2004, 02:12 PM
.

pax
August 4, 2004, 05:53 PM
The person who used the term "towelhead" won't do it again.

No need to pile on.

pax

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