Action against Editorials


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MP5
August 2, 2004, 09:15 AM
This thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94682) among others got me thinking: what's the use of many people here preaching to the converted on the RKBA issue and constantly venting spleen against so-called "antis" with a string of nasty names? In addition to voting, why not speak out in a polite, informed manner in broader forums where others can hear and perhaps begin to rethink views?

Perhaps this or some other thread could act as a sort of hub. When someone finds an anti-RKBA editorial or editorial cartoon in a magazine or their local paper, they could link or post it here with contact info for the publication. (Perhaps some site already does this sort of thing?)

Then everyone with a will and a way could write in, refuting its claims while illustrating that gun owners aren't some tiny fringe minority but actually a very large group of (mostly) ordinary, rational people. Needless to say, hard facts and total civility would be helpful in such an effort. Resorting to name-calling or assuming "no one will change their mind, so why bother?" is a counterproductive cop-out.

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TarpleyG
August 2, 2004, 12:07 PM
I'll give you a 'for instance' as to why most of us don't. Go over to www.democraticunderground.com and try bringing up something about guns and put on your Nomex, especially when Mr. Benchley starts running his pie hole. It ain't worth the effort. I work slowly. I started at work, slowly introducing shooting/guns. Now I have about 6 or 8 people out shooting regularly. Some of them haven't even been shooting with me. Just planting the seed was all it took for them to get started. You have to have a willing audience and most anti-gunners aren't willing to listen to our rhetoric anymore than you are willing to listen to their's.

Greg

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 01:20 PM
Interesting thread. If I may:

I've had maybe 20 or so Letters to the Editor about the RKBA. I strongly feel that I've gotten NOWHERE at all. One problem is that I'm pretty much the only one in my entire state writing such Letters. There's certainly a few others, but not many. On a side note, just moved to PA so it's not really my problem anymore, but defending the RKBA in PA may become a concern one day and I'm ready. I've concluded that the elected officials in New Jersey actually do represent many of the people there quite well implying that it's me that doesn't belong so I took appropriate measures.

The other way to go is to look at the bigger picture. The RKBA has personal responsibility, accountability and self reliance at it's core. The other problems in New Jersey, for example, are a direct result of dishonoring these basic principles. So... Start writing Letters about the local issues of concern applying the basic leadership principles to them. I've had maybe 10 to 15 of those with tremendous results. Not that it made any difference, but it certainly gets people thinking.

The problem is that our issues aren't necessarily the issues of the masses. Apply our concepts of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to other issues and you may just be onto something. Then throw in an occassional RKBA Letter into the mix and you're in, maybe. Write about the RKBA only and you're probably not in.

Or move, like I did. I love it and am bummed that I waited so long. It's a little bitter-sweet, but one must move forward and leave the angry left wingers to be rewarded with higher taxes, ever increasing inefficiency, eroding schools and corrupt government officials.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 01:24 PM
I'll post a few samples upon request. They'll bring a tear to your eye, but I won't bore you unless asked.

Sawdust
August 2, 2004, 02:08 PM
E36M3 sez:

I'll post a few samples upon request. They'll bring a tear to your eye, but I won't bore you unless asked.

I'll bite; let's see 'em...

Sawdust

MP5
August 2, 2004, 02:11 PM
You have to have a willing audience and most anti-gunners aren't willing to listen to our rhetoric anymore than you are willing to listen to their's.
(emphasis added by me)

That's just it: for me, the way to reach someone isn't through rhetoric. Sure, there will be close-minded boneheads on each side of any issue, but I think it's incumbent on us to demonstrate, "Look, most of us are not mindless extremists," but rational, polite people with real reasons behind our stances. In every crowd, there are at least a few people who aren't set in their ways and who may respond to a new POV if presented in a way that "speaks" to their background and interests--not necessarily your own. You have to be willing to enter their headspace and not work exclusively from your own (which gives the impression of arrogance, actually).

The problem is that our issues aren't necessarily the issues of the masses. Apply our concepts of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to other issues and you may just be onto something. Then throw in an occassional RKBA Letter into the mix and you're in, maybe. Write about the RKBA only and you're probably not in.


I agree. That's why it's important, to my mind, to forget "RKBA" or "gun rights" as rhetorical terms, and start talking more about "civil rights" or "civil liberties." Not only is that accurate--our Constitutional rights all go hand in hand--but it seems that co-opting someone else's prized rhetoric could be empowering to us and disarming to others. Imagine some group like the NAACP and ACLU ( http://www.vpc.org/graphics/naacp.pdf and http://archive.aclu.org/library/aaguns.html for interest) suddenly finding their opponents arguing for a similar cause with similar language, yet rightly including the Second Amendment into the mix. Are they going to turn around and suddenly fight against "civil liberties"?

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 02:28 PM
You asked for it. I went down memory lane and I'll post one per post until I can't take it anymore. I'll throw in my one RKBA one that was in the USA Today. That one officially made me "The Man".

The upcoming school budget vote may be the most difficult in ****** **** history. It's difficult because we desperately need the money, but a "yes" vote will force more seniors from their homes and make ***** **** even more unaffordable for young families.
The entire education team continues to perform miracles within the confines of our community, but it's not good enough. Telling it like it is would be a great place to start. The truth is our property tax formulas are based on grossly outdated demographics, horribly irrational mandates and Abbot Funding that defies common sense while bleeding us dry.
Our Socialist state government is made much worse by the ominously widespread fear of rocking the boat. The only long-term solution for this very serious problem is for large numbers of residents, teachers and administrators to work closely together, honestly assessing every issue with pin point accuracy in a very short period of time. We must quickly develop comprehensive yet simple strategies followed by physically knocking on every door in the State House demanding immediate implementation, constant review and adjustment and prompt results.
Unfortunately, a "yes" vote Tuesday is a necessary short term solution, but it must serve as a catalyst to radical change and not a continued enabler of dysfunctional behavior.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 02:31 PM
Somewhere along the way, "government for the people, by the people" got lost in New Jersey. Not only is the Constitution being trampled on, but we are constantly being confronted by scandal, dishonor and mismanagement at all levels.
I propose that we base our votes on leadership ability rather than "what's in it for me", as we have no one to blame but ourselves.
We are in desperate need of real leadership. Without it we may pass the point of no return.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 02:35 PM
My neighbors and I in the * * section of * * are concerned about the motives of those who are orchestrating the low-income housing project on our doorsteps. To get the most accurate barometer of what this means, do not ask the residents of * * what they think. Do not ask those with hidden agendas what they think. Ask the hard working people of our county who are eligible for low income housing what they think.
For they, like all of us, are striving for a better life for our families and probably resent handouts that do nothing more than imply an inability to chart their own course through life's struggles and triumphs. And nothing can be further from the truth than this disrespectful, elitist notion.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 02:45 PM
I was only able to sit through 15 minutes of the recent Planning Board Meeting on the * * * property before being overwhelmed by the talking heads. As I drove away, the sadness of the greatest missed opportunity in * * history eliminated any gray area of our elected officials' dereliction of duty.
What could have been hi-tech industry/open space magnificence will now become a catalyst to blight. * * cannot support this project. Every project in * * caters to Machine Politics Labor. Such labor is 40 percent more expensive than free market labor. This 40 percent differential is what funds campaigns, ensuring that the axis of evil continues unabated.
Fair Share Housing has also jumped on the bandwagon masquerading as the "feel good police" with more than their fair share of hidden agendas. They too are holding * * hostage.
We can also look at the * project, which is $5.6 million too expensive with an extra $400 coming out of each of our pockets. The developer of the apartment renovation on * * has had his life threatened because Machine Politics Labor ($7 million too expensive) isn't being used.
If a * * researcher found a cure for cancer, the bobble heads would complain if non-union laboratory rats were used. Unions serve a tremendous service to the men and women who do the real work, but are being abused by self-serving tyrants. And so it goes, unchecked, the embalming of * *.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 02:46 PM
Ethics reform? You mean that honesty, good values and strong moral principles aren't already part of the job description? I'm shocked.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 02:52 PM
No one is more outraged by unprofessional military conduct than the 99.9% of the highly professional personnel out there working hard on our behalf. Concerning the Iraqi prisoner scandal (and any other issue), it's quite certain that the military is much more capable of policing their own than the sea of Monday morning quarterbacks who weren't even there.
Maybe the tens of thousands killed so far would still be alive today if the angry liberal left thought about anything other than themselves. They continue to use this incident in their quest for political power as they seek to weaken our nation in the same exact manner that got us all into this mess in the first place.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 02:55 PM
There's been quite a bit of Bush bashing around here lately. Our President's primary crime seems to be his unwaivering principles.
Fortunately, we live in a nation where we're all free to think whatever we like. In the meantime, I'll be more inclined to take my moral cues from President Bush than from the shameless politicians who support partial-birth abortion under the false pretense of Constitutional Rights, such as Senator *, and those who feel threatened by the success of the war on terror.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 03:03 PM
The summary of my recent political experience is that a truly high-performance democracy requires solid Republican values to complement solid Democrat values. The problems arise when we compromise our principles in an attempt to get votes.
There are no Republicans around here. The one-party rule creates a "party" at our expense, where the complacent masses participate in "pay to play" politics. Our higher taxes are the cost of contracts awarded to businesses that contribute to campaigns without the required open-market competitive bidding.
The whole thing spirals out of control, creating a breeding ground for massive mismanagement and self-serving agendas.
I sense that New Jersey has a firm foundation of people who crave the core American values of personal responsibility, accountability and self reliance, but trying to do the right thing is often met with opposition and extreme frustration. I'm very concerned about the lack of accountability of our elected officials, but I find the apathy of the masses who refuse to acknowledge the truth even more troubling.
Democrats and Republicans are equally important to a good society as long as they stay true to their values and uncompromising in their convictions. They complement each other when they're "on board" for the right reasons. New Jersey is as far from that concept as a "free" people can get, and the only remedy will be large numbers of people getting involved.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 03:11 PM
From Oct. 10 to 12, a Rutgers University student group called New Jersey Solidarity will host the Third North American Student Conference of the Palestinian Solidarity Movement on the New Brunswick campus. This chapter of the Palestinian Solidarity Movement has publicly stated it supports resisting the occupation of Palestine "by any means necessary".
Because Rutgers is a publicly funded university, this conference will be partly paid for with New Jersey tax dollars.
Gov. McGreevey has, despite intense opposition, given the green light to this gathering under the pretense of free speech. This is the same abuse of our freedom that directly led to the terror attacks of 9/11, and the same abuse of our Constitution that may lead to another.
We must maintain an uncompromising policy of courage and zero tolerance for terrorism. It's about time that our elected officials honor their Oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 03:16 PM
Congratulations to the gun control groups and politicians for seizing the recent Washington, DC-area tragedy to further their agenda. Certainly, we're all equally upset by the Beltway shootings and other criminal behavior.
But predatory criminals, but virtue of their job, are the greatest advocates for gun control. A free society, by definition, should not require its citizens to ask for permission to defend themselves.
Gun control does not work, never has and never will. The truth is that decreasing gun ownership has a direct correlation to a rise in crime.
The gun-ban crowd has created the black-market industry that is, in large part, responsible for the gun violence that we are all concerned about.
The rationale for disarming the responsible, law-abiding citizens in the post-9/11 era is deceitful, to say the least, and may lead us to becoming a nation of defenseless victims.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 03:23 PM
Make no mistake about it: The terrorists are here in the United States. Pacifying them, as the liberals suggest, will not make them go away. Killing them will. It is the only option.
Fortunately, we have a President in George W. Bush who understands this. He's not perfect, but he's the best we have.
The extremists want us dead and their numbers are growing like wildfire. Our way of life is a threat to their code of conduct or whatever you want to call it. We are a good people as are most around the world, but these fanatics do not tolerate freedom as we know it. We, in effect, make them look bad just by being a good people.
It's time for the American people to band together just like we did for a few weeks following 9/11 and to protest the anti-war-on-terror activists who will stop at nothing in their quest for political power. They seek to weaken our nation in the same manner that got us all into this mess in the first place, and I've just about had it with all of them.
The enemy is here and they are ready. Are you?

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 03:23 PM
I just read an article that used a new term, "hate-triot", that really struck a chord with me. It's been very fashionable to be anti-America for some time now in certain circles, but the American media's embracing of the concept is weird and confusing, at best.
Of course, Michael Moore and his ilk have become what they criticize most - completely irrational and removed from reality; and his latest film is likely to expose him for what he is. As if making money from the blood of those killed in the Columbine tragedy wasn't enough... It's odd that he's criticizing the brave men and women who are fighting to preserve his freedom to produce a film that trivializes their efforts. These are some of the same men and women who have given their lives to allow anyone to build a mosque wherever they like in America.
The "liberal" vs. "conservative" discussion has run amuck thanks to people like Michael Moore who think only of themselves. Using the 9/11 tragedies as an example, a real liberal might be described as someone who's geared more towards helping survivors and the loved ones of those who didn't survive. A real conservative might be described as someone who's more geared towards ensuring that terrorism never again happens. Together, liberals and conservatives form a perfect union. Michael Moore shamelessly hides behind the very honorable liberal banner with his hate-triotic and destructive self-serving opportunistic agenda. Michael Moore is no liberal.
If you don't know what a hate-triot looks like (and you're curious) you may be able to find some at your local showing of Farenheit 9/11. I wouldn't be caught dead in there and thanks to our President and his team, chances are that none of them will be caught dead in there either.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 03:31 PM
This one generated 16 hate emails. It was not easy being me:

This war is about terrorism, plain and simple. We didn't ask for it. It was hand delivered to us on 9/11 and we've responded to its foundation in places such as Afghanistan and Iraq. This war is about stopping the worldwide spread of terrorism in its tracks.
America was founded on the principles of Democracy, which have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness at its core. These inalienable, natural rights of every human being are a threat to oppressive regimes. Therefore, America is their greatest threat. We are a good people; hardworking and very caring for our families and others. You may even find aobut 95% of Iraqis really embracing the concept.
History will tell the real story, but now would be a great time to rally in support of the war on terror. Our government has been tremendous in keeping us safe even under intense criticism from some of our own.
The choice is war or terror. Take your pick.

E36M3
August 2, 2004, 03:51 PM
Thank you for that disturbing trip down memory lane.

raz-0
August 2, 2004, 06:46 PM
In addition to voting, why not speak out in a polite, informed manner in broader forums where others can hear and perhaps begin to rethink views?

I do. I try never to have nasty name callign enter any debates or criticisms I bring up with people not of a like mind. Heck, I even try to minimize it when it is with people of a like mind. It's cheap, baseless, and in the end useless.


However, I don't go trolling democratic underground. I just happen to be there when it comes up in any forum that covers interests outside of guns. graphic arts, computer art, video games, visual effects, It, etc. Surprisingly they all have crossover with firearms. I don't try to convert anyone too much. My main goal is to make sure they know just how invasive and screwed up the laws are.

I have felt that every gun control poll is inherently flawed whenever it asks if you think current laws are enough, because it NEVER asks if they have the least clue what the current laws are. People may vary on their idea of how much is enough, but they are almost always shocked to learn how disparate the difference between their idea of reality is, and the current state of the laws.

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