Illinois Law On Blackpowder???


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jke456
August 3, 2004, 12:48 AM
Question for the Illinoisians :)

I have a friend who has been turned down for a FOID card....
Won't go into the reasons but my question is; Can he deer hunt with blackpowder???

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DonP
August 3, 2004, 10:55 AM
I'm open to correction on this but I'm pretty sure about it.

The state of affairs here is if you don't have a current FOID card you may not possess, purchase or even handle anything that goes bang. If they find another made a straw purchase of powder, guns or ammunition they go after that person with a vengeance.

Even at our gun shows they always require you to show your current FOID card before you can even pick up a box of ammunition or powder for reloading. My experience has been that they look at it pretty close too making sure it's current. I'm assuming the same holds true for black powder as well.

Several dealers and shops have been "stung" by the states attrorney and Chicago based cops (CAGE = Chicago Area Gun Enforcement) so they err on the side of caution.

That's why Chicago is such a safe city and free from violence and street crime, right?

Don Gwinn
August 3, 2004, 12:09 PM
I'm pretty sure blackpowder is included as a firearm in Illinois. I tried that route to get around concealed carry, and it was a no go. That was UUW, and that's what they'd charge him with if he had a gun and no FOID.

He should probably ask a lawyer, but that's my opinion.

Did he get a definite denial and a reason? From your post it sounds like he halfway expected to be denied, but I have a friend who waited six months for a FOID and when we called, they told us he had a warrant out for his arrest on drug trafficking charges, so they denied the card.

It wasn't him, of course, and all they had to do was run the search with his MIDDLE name included--as it was included on the form. :rolleyes: Coulda run his social security, too, as he had provided it, or his DL number. But they didn't. They just refused it.

Note, also, that they didn't attempt to contact him, either to clear up the problem or to attempt to locate this dangerous drug dealer they thought had just sent them his real name and address. Masters of crime detection and prevention.

Jeff White
August 3, 2004, 04:23 PM
Jon,
This is from the statute on the FOID card:

(430 ILCS 65/1.1) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑1.1)
Sec. 1.1. For purposes of this Act:
"Counterfeit" means to copy or imitate, without legal authority, with intent to deceive.
"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:
(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or

B‑B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;
(2) any device used exclusively for signalling or

safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;
(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of

stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and
(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine‑gun)

which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
"Firearm ammunition" means any self‑contained cartridge or shotgun shell, by whatever name known, which is designed to be used or adaptable to use in a firearm; excluding, however:
(1) any ammunition exclusively designed for use with

a device used exclusively for signalling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission; and
(2) any ammunition designed exclusively for use with

a stud or rivet driver or other similar industrial ammunition.
(Source: P.A. 91‑357, eff. 7‑29‑99; 92‑414, eff. 1‑1‑02.)

Once again the legislature has been sufficiently vague to allow all kinds of interpretations. I don't know of any officers around here who've ever asked for a FOID when encountering a blackpowder gun. The statute defines ammunition as being self contained so I don't think a FOID is necessary for components even though many retailers will err on the side of caution. Heck, I got in last night and my 19 year old son told me I would have to go buy him some .22LR because Wal-Mart wouldn't sell him any this time because it could be used in a handgun. They sold him 100 rounds of 12 gauge but the .22s were a no go even when he told them it was for his rifle.

Don, if you read the staute on UUW it states:
(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed

on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:

The key here is that it says any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm. There is no definition in the UUW statute that says a black poweder pistol or revolver isn't a pistol or revolver for the purposes or the statute. If you look at the FOID law it would appear to exclude curios and relics, but I'm not aware of any case law on it. As we all know, laws pertaining to weapons and their use in Illinois are vague and confusing....

Jeff

jke456
August 4, 2004, 02:16 AM
Thanks all

Guess I'll tell him he better off getting his stuff cleared up and getting a foid card.

He has some bs on his record that he could get cleared up but he just doesn't do it.

One is a B&E charge from when he was 17
other is old awol bs from when he was in navy. He has ribbons from being aboard his ship when her guns were fired in war, also has a honorable discharge. He otta be able to get a damn foid but I think they like to deny on the side of caution.......but then I got some family relation that is certifiable and believe he even spent time in the pen and he got a foid so who knows

jon

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