[Red_SC]

Hey y'all. A guy I know just bought a lightly used Taurus .357, and brought it to me to look at. It is in very good shape, very little bluing wear and doesn't look like it's been 'worked on'. He said that, every now and then, the cylinder will be out of line enough that the firing pin hits the side of the primer or misses it altogether. When I asked him, he thought the cylinder was rotated to far, instead of not far enough.

Everything feels normal cycling it by hand. It locks up tight, and I haven't been able to recreate it with the gun empty. The only thing I noticed different when I compared it to two similar revolvers was that you can pull the hammer back slightly and spin the cylinder backwards. On the other two, you can get the cylinder to turn backwards, but there isn't enough play to get it to spin. I don't know if it is related or even matters, but that is the only difference I can feel between it and two functional revolvers.

Does anyone have any idea what could cause this? Any particular part I should suspect as being out of tolerance? Any ideas would be appreciated.

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Red,

Not highly likely that the cylinder is goin' too far, though not
impossible either. Sometimes the stop bolt gets outta whack with the
hand-off, and lets the cylinder go too far. That one's a little tough to catch due to the fact that when the gun fires, the cylinder usually drops back and engages the stop bolt.

Much more likely that it's not far enough when the hammer breaks.
The causes are a worn ratchet (star) or hand. (The dingus that sticks
through the recoil shield. That's where I'd put my money.

It could also be that the gun is extremely dirty...I've seen a few
that seemed to be slightly out, and worked fine after a good cleaning
freed up the stop bolt.

Cycle the trigger slowly and listen for the last click. When you hear it,
see if the cylinder will turn a little further and lock into battery. If it does,
it's the hand or the ratchet. Not sure about the taurus' timing, so you may not hear a click. The older Colt lockwork timed as the hammer broke, while Smiths would pre-time. If you can't hear a clear click, watch for the cylinder to stops moving, and ever-so-slowly continue to pull the trigger through
with your other thumb controlling the hammer until it breaks. Then check for more cylinder movement.

Cycle it a little faster and see if the cylinder will turn after the hammer falls.
It may drop back when the hammer falls, so watch the cylinder to see if it moves backward when the hammer breaks. If it moves, the stop bolt is out of time.

'Bout as close as I can call this one. Jim Keenan or Old Fuff can probably
nail it down better than I can.

Luck!

Tuner

[Red_SC]

Thanks, Tuner. I'll give it a good eyeball tonight. The gun is clean, so that's not the problem. I think I'm going to post it over in the Revolvers forum, too, to see if some others will see it.




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[1911Tuner]

Red said:

I think I'm going to post it over in the Revolvers forum, too.

Movin' it now Red. One of those wheelgun sharps over there will nail it.

[Jim K]

It should be easy to tell if the cylinder is turning too far or not far enough, depending on which side of the primer the indent is on. When we know that, we can diagnose the problem a bit better.

The Taurus action is mostly a copy of the S&W, so what applies to the older S&W's will also apply to the Taurus.

Jim

[Red_SC]

Thanks for moving it, Tuner. Due to some other obligations, I won't be able to give it a workout until Saturday. I'll let you know what I find out.

[bountyhunter]

Try pulling it double action (empty) riding the tip of your finger on the cylinder for a touch of drag. Watch under the cylinder and see if the bolt pops up and locks into the notch WELL BEFORE the hammer falls. It should not be at the same time. The DA stroke has the hand push the ratchet on the ejector star until the cylinder locks with the bolt, then the hand slips off it and passes by the ratchet as the trigger goes the rest of the way to drop the hammer.

If you see the hammer falling before the cylinder fully locks into the stop bolt, this is a serious problem that must be fixed because it can cause firing with the cylinder out of position. Sometimes the cylinder will "just make it" from spinning inertia when firing, but slow rotation with a touch of resistance on the cylinder should spot the problem.

For the record, the term to tell the gunsmith is "double action carry up failure" if the cylinder is not quite getting there.

[Red_SC]

I finally had a chance to work on the revolver some more. I found that, very occasionally, it would rotate too far before the stop engaged. It did it on random cylinders, so it wasn't a problem with the rachet. So, I tore it apart.:D

Once inside, I saw that someone previously had found the same problem, and had stoned the nose and top of the hand, trying to delay the rotation of the cylinder. But, neither of those surfaces were in contact at the end of the rotation. I lightly stoned the side of the hand, and now it works perfectly. It locks solidly into place every time, single or double action, or worked quickly or slowly.

Thanks to all who offered advice. So, my buddy got a gun at a very good price, without being told it had a problem, and I got to learn something new. Worked out good this time!

[bountyhunter]

I finally had a chance to work on the revolver some more. I found that, very occasionally, it would rotate too far before the stop engaged. That concerns me because if the stop bolt is coming up after the cylinder has turned too far, it points to a problem with the fitting of the stop or trigger nose. Is it possible the stop it dropping too low and snagging in the lower edge of the frame slot sometimes and not returning properly? Bottom line, grinding on the hand is never to fix for this to my knowledge, although it may compensate for it.

and had stoned the nose and top of the hand, trying to delay the rotation of the cylinder. But, neither of those surfaces were in contact at the end of the rotation. Exactly my point. The hand releases from the star ratchet after it has turned the cylinder into position where the stop bolt should have locked in and stopped it.

[Red_SC]

Is it possible the stop is dropping too low and snagging in the lower edge of the frame slot sometimes and not returning properly?

That may be, I'll check it. I thought it was odd, I only stoned enough to just change the finish, and it started working it correctly. I didn't think I had taken off enough to make any difference at all. I worked it for 10 or 15 minutes, and then shot round 40 rounds through it, with no problems. I took it home and cycled it some more, no problems. Then, I picked it up later and had the same problem again. It could very well be the stop hanging up. Thanks for the tip.

[bountyhunter]

Error. Posted in wrong place.

[Red_SC]

It just came to mind that I never posted my final results, for people searching later. It turned out that bountyhunter nailed it. He said:

it points to a problem with the fitting of the stop or trigger nose. Is it possible the stop it dropping too low and snagging in the lower edge of the frame slot sometimes and not returning properly?

The stop was dropping too far, and hanging up until too late. I stoned the trigger nose and changed the angle just a little, so it would hold it for just as long, but wouldn't hold it as far down.

Thanks for all the help from forum members on correcting this problem!