North Hollywood Shootout??


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itgoesboom
August 4, 2004, 07:13 PM
We often hear politicians talk about the north hollywood shootout where the two gunmen with AK-47s held off the LA police until the police were able to acquire some ARs and take them down.

But we never hear where those gunmen got the rifles?

Were they purchased off the shelf, and converted to FA?? Were they stolen title II firearms? Or were they illegally imported into the country?

Anyone have any links to reliable sources?

Also, I heard somewhere that they had the rifles confiscated prior to the shootout taking place, but because the search was illegal, the arrest was thrown out, and the rifles were turned back over to them.

Any truth to that?

I.G.B.

Edited because I can't tell north from west.

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goalie
August 4, 2004, 08:52 PM
I would suggest the search button or google. I will give you a hint though, if it is really easy to smuggle people over the border from Mexico, how hard would it be to smuggle a few full-auto AKs?

itgoesboom
August 4, 2004, 09:30 PM
Goalie,

I have done a google search, unfortunatly, several of the pages that it brought up were less than accurate, some downright tinfoil hattish.

I keep seeing different reports about what weapons were used. One report said a HK91, a Polytec AK and a Mak90 were used, another says a Bushmaster, an AK and a HK91.

Hard to get good info.

I.G.B.

PMDW
August 4, 2004, 10:13 PM
From what I believe, they were purchased legally (I believe) as semi-autoamtic weapons, and illegally converted. In the video you can definately see two AKs and one G3. I never saw an M16, though. But then, I wasn't there.

hvengel
August 5, 2004, 06:00 PM
This has more info

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/930593/posts

Looks like they might have come from Mexico and already been full auto when they crossed the border.

Ex-Doc
August 6, 2004, 03:11 AM
Title: West Hollywood Shootout??

Do you have any idea of what that would look like? :D

itgoesboom
August 6, 2004, 02:19 PM
Ex-Doc,

I know, I know.

Thats why I edited it just hours after I posted the message, unfortunatly, I can't edit the title out. :banghead:

Still can't find any real credible links that point out exactly where these goons got their guns.

Some links say that they had a Full-auto HK-91, with parts from the mexican army, some say that it was a semi-auto HK-91, and that the AKs were full auto.

It seems to be only speculation, no proof.

I.G.B.

Edmond
August 6, 2004, 02:59 PM
Did this incident wake the LAPD into acquiring more powerful weapons?

srschick
August 6, 2004, 03:45 PM
Did this incident wake the LAPD into acquiring more powerful weapons?

Not just yes, but Hell yes.

sendec
August 6, 2004, 03:53 PM
I believe LAPD now allows slugs to be used in shotguns, and supervisors have access to ARs, as if possession of stripes makes one a marksman.

IIRC there may have been some connection between these guys and eastern European criminal gangs, who basically have an endless supply of ex-Soviet military weapons. Everything from Maks to MIGS.

RooK
August 6, 2004, 04:52 PM
From what I remember, at least one AK was smuggled in full-auto from Mexico. In the footage, you can see two AKs shooting full-auto. How the other AK came about or the HK I have no idea. You can try to search for info and you get tons of crap info with no factual info in sight. Unless someone has a link or can remember all the facts, I doubt you'll be able to find anything of use on google.

O.F.Fascist
August 7, 2004, 01:38 AM
Why dont you call up the LAPD and ask.

http://www.lapdonline.org/general_information/how_to_contact_us/how_to_contact_us_main.htm

Ktulu
August 9, 2004, 12:06 PM
Tech Effect on the History Channel Tuesday @ 9:00 EST is about, "The shootout following the botched 1997 robbery of a bank in North Hollywood..."

twoblink
August 10, 2004, 04:25 AM
B&B, has since closed down. I have talked to the owner before, who gave the AR's to the police..

He said, they were selling like hotcakes the week afterwards, and most of them to the police...

Zach S
August 11, 2004, 10:02 AM
In the movie one guy had an M16 with a C mag, and some of the officers on the set were there, but we all know hollyweird. I know Bushmaster made the movie prop, as if that helps....

All I remember were the AKs, but then again, I was fifteen at the time.

Tinker
August 11, 2004, 10:42 AM
itgoesboom,

I often wondered about that Hollywood shootout, too. Aside from the saturation coverage of the shootout itself, the media seemed strangly silent on other aspects of the whole thing.

For instance, compare to the Columbine shootings. The media covered every thing about the killers. 20/20, Nightline, CNN, etc. had numerous profiles about the childhoods, psychological makeups, and genenral histories of the 2 killers. Where they acquired the weapons, etc. on and on. I've never seen anything about the 2 bank robber/killers. I don't even know what they loolk like or thier names. All I've ever seen was the footage of the them hosing the neighborhood with an AK. Just find that a bit strange.

Kamicosmos
August 11, 2004, 03:01 PM
I saw a documentary, and I think read at crimelibrary.com that some of the guns were legal. One of the guys had never been in trouble with the law, so he bought the guns and gear. The other guy had been in and out of prison on various charges.

I can't remember the specifics about the full auto (and either source probably wouldn't have it right anyways), but I was under the impression that one of the full auto guns MAY have been legally purchased and went through all the NFA hoops...but that is a big fuzzy MAYBE on my part.

I remember alot of the guns being sold at auction by the LAPD a few years later....so if they were 'illegal' how/why could the police then auction them off to the public?

DevilDog
August 11, 2004, 03:27 PM
Here is my 2 cents on the lack of repeating coverage on it...

Well, the incident does not provide much fuel to the typical things our media looks for in a story. IIRC, the only deaths were the bad guys, so not enough tragedy there.

Full-auto effectiveness, or lack of - the bad guys shot a lot of ammo off and had the LAPD scrambling, yet didn't kill anyone (again, iirc), which does not fuel the anti-gun lean the media typically likes.

Where they got their firearms - The two bad guys had been arrested before and had their firearms taken away, and a judge gave them back so they could sell them to pay their legal fees. Again, this does not make good copy for the media as it does not provide much of an anti-we-need-more-gun-banning-laws kind of idea.

The HK91 was illegally converted, my guess is the others were too and there was not a legal NFA firearm involved.

Also, I think the performance of the LAPD here was another reason for the lack of deaths and courageous actions by the police do not get the same coverage as when they mess up.

If anything, the incident is a good example of many of the ideas of the pro-RKBA movement, such as enforcing our existing laws, keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and not citizens, and that firearms alone do not kill. Hardly an idea our mainstream media wants to further along.

Edmond
August 11, 2004, 03:57 PM
Also, I think the performance of the LAPD here was another reason for the lack of deaths and courageous actions by the police do not get the same coverage as when they mess up.

Big time props to the LAPD. Things like using an armored car as moving cover to get to the wounded pretty much went unnoticed. Those officers were very brave and they deserve some kudos for what they did.

Black_Talon
August 11, 2004, 10:19 PM
I remember alot of the guns being sold at auction by the LAPD a few years later....

Not true.

All the guns actually reside in the LAPD Historical Society Museum in their own special "North Hollywood Shootout" exhibit. All the clothes, including the body armor that they wore is also there, fitted onto two mannequins complete with guns in hand.

They also have the white sedan that the crooks drove, as well as one of the more ventilated police cruisers.

Anyone can visit the museum during their business hours for a $5 donation.

Apparently they don't mind you taking pics because I went there with my digicam and took a whole bunch.

tcsd1236
August 11, 2004, 10:48 PM
I remember alot of the guns being sold at auction by the LAPD a few years later....so if they were 'illegal' how/why could the police then auction them off to the public?
I think it was the guns that were "borrowed" from the gun store that were later auctioned off to benefit some cause.

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