Ammo Ban Amendment


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Kim
August 5, 2004, 11:07 PM
Does anyone have a link to the ammo ban amendment Kerry voted for about 2 months ago? Can an individual person run a newspaper ad under the new CFR law. I got an idea of running a full page ad to let the hunters in Arkansas know about this vote. I think others need to do the same. :D

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submin
August 5, 2004, 11:16 PM
Here is one source http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1089355/posts

Sam Adams
August 6, 2004, 05:54 PM
Can an individual person run a newspaper ad under the new CFR law.

You can do so without fear of legal consequence until 60 days before the election. You can also probably run a nearly identical ad, without specifically mentioning or showing Lurch, after that. I would suggest saying something to the effect of "Did you know that this past March the junior senator from a state that rhymes with 'Assachusetts' - who, by the way, served in Viet Nam and is married to a billionaire ketchup heiress - voted for legislation, sponsored by Ted Kennedy, which would have made your .30-30 into an expensive club?" If so, don't vote for this person. If not, here are some more interesting details.... By doing so, you wouldn't have mentioned him or his wife specifically and Fat Ted (Drunken Murderer, MA) isn't up for election (so he's fair game).

Harry Tuttle
August 6, 2004, 06:07 PM
you might find this interesting:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68771

Bartholomew Roberts
August 6, 2004, 06:44 PM
Here is the link to the Senate Roll Call vote where Kerry voted YES on this amendment:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00028

Here are the comments of Sen. Kennedy, author of the bill on its purposes along with the text of the bill:

" Another rifle caliber, the 30.30 caliber, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines, even a 600-pound safe with 600 pounds of safe armor plating.

It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America. "

(Congressional Record, February 26, 2004, page S1634)
Link to Congressional Record:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/R?r108:FLD001:S51635

whm1974
August 7, 2004, 04:41 PM
" Another rifle caliber, the 30.30 caliber, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines, even a 600-pound safe with 600 pounds of safe armor plating.

It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America. "

I heard about this. I'm supprise they even tryed banning 30-30 ammo considering that would get hunters off the fence for once and vote Republican.

-Bill

Cosmoline
August 7, 2004, 04:52 PM
Thanks for bringing this up! I sure hope the NRA or similar group will put on some ads showing Teddy boy tell us how the .30-30 was a cop-killer and needed to be banned. And then how Kerry was among the minority of Senators to vote for the amendment. That amendment wasn't "PC" gun control. It was bizarre, extreme and would have made putting an extra grain of powder into a case a high felony. It makes the AWB look like a walk in the park.

GSB
August 7, 2004, 04:55 PM
I heard about this. I'm supprise they even tryed banning 30-30 ammo considering that would get hunters off the fence for once and vote Republican.

Ignorance, possibly. I doubt The Swimmer had any idea when he made those comments that the 30-30 has been around forever and is perhaps the most popular deer round in the country. Some staffer of his probably pulled this caliber from some list of stats somewhere and had no clue about the implications of it all, other than that it was clearly armor piercing and the weapon of choice of [fill in the blank].

whm1974
August 8, 2004, 01:10 PM
Ignorance, possibly. I doubt The Swimmer had any idea when he made those comments that the 30-30 has been around forever and is perhaps the most popular deer round in the country. Some staffer of his probably pulled this caliber from some list of stats somewhere and had no clue about the implications of it all, other than that it was clearly armor piercing and the weapon of choice of [fill in the blank].

I have friends who know a lot less about guns then I know about fixing cars. And THEY know what a 30-30 is and that it's used for hunting deer. I'm wondering if the staffer put that caliber in to derail this Amendment and/or descredit Kerry?

-Bill

BTR
August 8, 2004, 05:37 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the ammendment would ban ammo "designed or marketed" as more AP than regular rifle ammo- like steel core stuff...

itgoesboom
August 8, 2004, 09:20 PM
BTR,

The bill would give authority to the attorney general to decide what constituted armor piercing, and then that in turn would ban that type of ammo.

The fact that they brought up 30-30 as being one of the types they wanted to ban just shows the direction they were heading to, and the lengths that the antis will go to.

Fact is, even hunting rifles are evil in the eyes of the antis.

I.G.B.

whm1974
August 8, 2004, 11:15 PM
Fact is, even hunting rifles are evil in the eyes of the antis.

Yet some people will say no one wants to ban guns, just put reasonable controls on them.

-Bill

Bartholomew Roberts
August 9, 2004, 10:35 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the ammendment would ban ammo "designed or marketed" as more AP than regular rifle ammo- like steel core stuff...

Actually, the "Designed or marketed" test proposed by that bill did not apply to any caliber that could be fired from a handgun (Thompson Contender anyone?). Those calibers could be banned outright if they penetrated the minimum level of body armor established by the Attorney General.

Also, the Attorney General was the sole judge of all of the tests proposed by the bill - which pretty much gave him the bureaucratic leeway to ban as much or as little as he liked.

Add to that the fact that the bill's author specifically singled out the caliber .30-30 in the above speech (not a specific type of ammo; but the entire caliber) and I'd say the intent is pretty clear.

ny32182
August 9, 2004, 12:00 PM
The thing that surprised me is that they even STARTED with 30/30... perhaps the most well known rifle round in the country, and along with 7.62x39, the WEAKEST .30cal rifle cartridge. They would have had a better shot if they had made a posterboy out of a more powerful caliber that isn't necessarily a household name: 300RUM, or something like that, that a soccermom isn't likely to have even heard of. Its much easier to scare people with something they don't know about and have never heard of. However, even if it did pass, I don't think there would be anything short of minor rebellion once the back-woodsers realized they couldn't get their yearly box of 30/30 down at the store anymore...

I too tend to think it was just the sheer ignorance of whoever picked 30/30 out of a hat.

whm1974
August 10, 2004, 11:13 AM
I too tend to think it was just the sheer ignorance of whoever picked 30/30 out of a hat.

Don't be so sure. If you were a staffer or a temp(does Congress hire temps?) and had a chance to derail some gun control bills in the works, wouldn't you do so?

-Bill

ny32182
August 10, 2004, 01:24 PM
Yep. :) But anyone who is likely to do that isn't likely to want to be a staffer for a super-liberal in the first place.

Who knows. At least it got shot down.

whm1974
August 10, 2004, 05:33 PM
True, but suppose one of regulares was sick or on vacation and a temp got hired. I can see a gun owner or anyone else who doesn't like Kerrey trying to trip him up giving the chance to do so.

-Bill

Gunstar1
August 10, 2004, 05:52 PM
Kennedy keeps introducting a performance based standard for rifle ammunition.

It requires the AG to decide what soft armor vest represented the bulk of those used by police officers in the field. Most street officers use a Type IIA - IIIA vest so the base standard will be one of those 3 types.

The types are:
Type I (22 LR; 380 ACP)
Type IIA (9 mm; 40 S&W)
Type II (9 mm; 357 Magnum)
Type IIIA (High Velocity 9 mm; 44 Magnum)
Type III (Rifles)
Type IV (Armor Piercing Rifle)
Special Type

If you will look at the types above, Type III and Type IV are for protection from Rifles.

This bill would test what rifle round will penetrate a vest not designed to stop a rifle round. Any bullet that penetrates the vest is banned, any bullet that the vest somehow stopped will be legal.

Remeber, rifles are not important to hunt, just a double barrel shot gun like Kerry. :banghead:

and last The Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) — the largest rank-and-file police group in the U.S. — is against this bill

Gunstar1
August 10, 2004, 05:55 PM
Oh, and the reason for this ban comes from the FBI UCR.

It lists the calibers and dates of officers killed by a round penetrating thier vest.

Again note the surprise that the only deaths by officers wearing a vest are from high power rifles that the vest is not designed to stop.

whm1974
August 11, 2004, 09:54 AM
Again note the surprise that the only deaths by officers wearing a vest are from high power rifles that the vest is not designed to stop.

How often is a LEO going to come up against a rifle welding BG? This ban wouldn't do any good, the BG can always use a sawed off shotgun and aim for the head and other non covered areas. Same deal with a handgun.

-Bill

Gunstar1
August 11, 2004, 03:47 PM
UCR (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/02leoka.pdf)
Acrobat page 45-47

In 10 years 1993-2002
18 Officers died from a bullet penetrating their vest.
all 18 were from rifles

72 Officers died while wearing a vest from a rifle bullet
so 54 that died were from being shot where the armor was not.


Compare that with handguns and officers wearing a vest:
0 officers died from a handgun penetrating a vest
232 died from a handgun while wearing armor

Oh by the way, the rifle calibers and the number of deaths caused:
.223 Caliber 4
.30 Caliber 2
.30-30 Caliber 3
7.62x39 Millimeter 9

(Kennedy's 3 deaths from .30-30 comes from this)

Atticus
August 11, 2004, 04:58 PM
The UCR report is amazing.....You Southerners are a little rough on the Po Po ain't ya? :p

Oleg Volk
August 11, 2004, 06:27 PM
http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/s_ploy2.jpg

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