[bud45]

Just looking for an honest opinion: I've seen the threads from last year or so of the .22 and .38 caliber wheelguns, but has anyone ACTUALLY had their hands on & shot the 6" .357 model? I've just handled one, but not shot it (severe anti-weapon policy at our workplace, so I was shown it under cover behind the truck door!), and it looks very tight & pretty well-made. Since I can't carry my 2" S&W Model 19 in the Management hunting area (must have at least a 4" barrel), I was wondering if the Arminius would be worth carrying in the woods. Don't want to carry anything expensive, in case I get dumped in the river or lose it in the swamp, but was looking for at LEAST the power of a .357 in case a hog trees me!

No flames, please just honest opinion and a fair market value...the guy's hurtin' & only paid $40 for it. If it's worth my tuime, I'll have a NCIC run on it....Thanks.

[Nick96]

I've never owned or shot one. I can only pass on what I've heard & read. Arminius is a German manufacturer (for whatever that's worth - but German stuff is typically pretty good). New guns from this maker were very inexpensive - like "Saturday Night Special" inexpensive. The guns are typically ugly & cheap looking. However, the guns are actually of good quality - have pretty good actions - are durable - and and are pretty accurate.

If it looks okay - for less than $100 - I'd take a chance on it. In no situation, though, would I see giving more than $200 for anything from that manufacturer. It sounds like the perfect knock about woods gun that you are looking for.

PS:
If this one doesn't work out; look at Taurus, Rossi & older Charter Arms .357's & .44Spls. All are fairly inexpensive manufacturers that produce pretty good pieces. For the partcular purpose you cite - perhaps you should consider something in .44 Spl.
* In about a 25 to 30 ounce weight range gun - you can find something with a shorter barrel (3") that would be lighter & handier to carry.
* For your needs, the caliber is a very effective round - regardless of velosity or bullet configuration - especially from short barrels.
* The .44 Spl produces much less muzzel flash, less noise and less perceived recoil than a .357.

[JohnKSa]

HW model numbers are usually associated with Weihrauch, a German manufacturer who does mostly high quality airguns and target .22 firearms.

Is Arminius a manufacturer or a seller?

[antediluvianist]

I had an Arminius - .22lr revolver. It's German, but it's cheap, clearly not high-quality (inspect it), low-end . It worked, but I got rid of it before I had a chance to test longer-term durability. Arminius has a reputation similar to, or actually a bit below, Rossi in my location. Might be good for a cheap knock-around woods gun.

[bud45]

JohnKSa, upon looking at a Google search, I found some stuff, with the main "hit" being a dealer down in Australia who was really touting 'em as good guns- the .357, I mean. The other sites were all in German, so I didn't waste too much time. In just handling the gun (which I had to do with my & my friend's back to a camera!), it seemed to be pretty good quality. Too, I believe the Germans make good stuff- I suppose Arminius is a mfr., but I'm not sure.

There are at least six versions of the HW357, several of which were competition pistols, so this leads me to believe accuracy would be a high standard in this particular line....

Maybe my buddy will let me do a more cursory inspection & test it's ability before I make any decisions...!?

Any other info/practical experience with the HW357 is appreciated...please, no "I heard that so-and-so" experiences!

Bud

[Nick96]

Quote:
"...please, no "I heard that so-and-so" experiences!"
------------------------------------------------------------------
Well then, this will probably be a pretty short thread. Considering that personal experiences with these guns is probably similar to that of owning or driving a 1975 Ford Pinto. Just because somewone never owned or drove one doesn't mean they don't have valid opinions regarding them.

[JohnKSa]

OK, if you page down on this URL, you will find several entries that show Arminius revolvers associated with the Weihrauch name. I'm assuming that Arminius is a seller or brand name, not a manufacturer.
http://www.akah.de/structure_default/main.asp/G/111327/A/1/S/oXCH9u99I512015C6E7iIT2xR726g0Q232tnK2b27827282f474/R/0/N/1476858/ON/1476859
Further searching seems to establish that Arminius revolvers are definitely manufactured by Weihrauch.

I have seen exactly one Weihrauch firearm and it was a .357 or .38 revolver (can't remember the caliber.) It seemed to be good quality but was unremarkable (nothing unusual to distinguish it from any other revolver as far as I can recall). I didn't get to fire it, and really my only interest in it revolved (sorry, couldn't pass it up) around my ownership of several Weihrauch airguns. Beeman imports and sells Weihrauch airguns in the U.S. They re-label them as Beeman and assign them model numbers beginning with an R for rifles and a P for pistols. However, overseas Weihrauch sells them with an HW (Hermann Weihrauch) prefix model number.

I have never seen any quality complaints about any Weihrauch products. In fact, they enjoy an excellent reputation for quality. That assessment is based on my own experience with their airgun products and from feedback from other HW airgun owners. Unfortunately their firearms are not often found in the U.S. so my experience with them and my contact with those who use them is zero.

There's a revolver checkout procedure at the top of the revolver section of TFL. If it checks out ok using that procedure then I would say you're probably getting a pretty good revolver.

[bud45]

JohnKSa, I got a sheet of paper my buddy sent home for me to research the revolver (good pun, by the way!) and with the description, it does have, "H. Weihrauch" stamped in the right side, along with other stuff. Apparently, it was imported by I. I. E. Miami FL, since that's stamped there also.

Yeah, I'm not looking for anything stupendous or anything, just a simple woods gun; it's hard to make it up a tree with a wild hog on your tail, so I'd rather have some power in a pistol and if I drop it in the mud, no big deal. My auto doesn't have a 4" barrel, either & I didn't want it confiscated or lost in the swamp, either!

Nick 96: Point well taken about the '75 Pinto, but you know how rumors get spread: first you cut your finger and by the end of the day, someone's called yo' mama & told her you completely lost your arm!:banghead: Sometimes, it's hard to keep credible info credible, so I was actually looking for first-hand experiences. Also good points on the other mfrs., but when I hunt in the management areas, they specify the pistol barrel MUST be 4" or more. I think I may be able to get this one for about $50-60. I already have a S&W .357 (2" bbl.), so that's one less caliber I'd have to buy, although a .44 Spl. would be nice!

Thanks guys for your input! I'm going to give it a close going-over before I really decide.

[Nick96]

Well, look at it this way. $50 to $60 is less than the cost of three premium factory loaded boxes of .357. I doubt it would blow up or anything so serious. And as far as nailing a pig at 10 feet - most anything should do that. So just offer him $60 for it. If it breaks after 200 rounds or so - pull it apart - take a sledge hammer to the pieces - and throw it in the trash. I expect it would end up being perfectly servicable for your stated needs for years to come though. And hey, if your friend is strapped for cash, you've earned a little good karma in the process (go ahead and throw in a burger & fries with the deal?).

[bud45]

Wow, I got possession of the HW357 today and it looks like it's been fired very little- if at all- it's clean as a pin! Nonetheless, it has a little Hoppe's solvent smell to it, but only if I get it very close to my nose. Looks like it was bought & put up, more or less...there's actually a slight dustiness in the chamber! It's very tight, no space between the chamber and barrel.

The rear sight is adjustable for windage and elevation with a standard screwdriver; both front & rear sights are large & square- good if you're not wearing your glasses during the hunt!

I'm thinking very hard about it...just waiting for my commission check to come in. I think it'll be a good investment! Thanks, all!

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

Isn't Arminus (makers of a .22LR caliber revolver called a "Burgo"
model) kind'a kin to, or sleeping in bed with Rohm (makers of the
infamous RG revolvers)? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[JohnKSa]

All right, here's part of the problem. There have been at least 3 Arminius firearms brands.

One operated between the 20's and 1945 in Zella Germany making "well made, reliable and good value at low price" gate loaded revolvers according to Pistols of the World.

Hermann Weihrauch of Mellrichstadt began using the name in the middle 1950s. Weihrauch started making bicycles and sporting guns in 1899. After the war, the company was re-established in Western Germany and began making revolvers as well. Pistols of the World calls them "Substantial pistols of good quality..." These pistols were sold in the U.S. until around 1969.

Gunmarks implies that FIE made Arminius revolvers in the U.S. after imporation stopped. I'm guessing that FIE owned the rights to the name in the U.S. Prior to the '68 Gun Control Act, FIE was purely an importer. In the wake of the act, when the import of HW pistols stopped, FIE began making their own pistols and it sounds as if they sold some of them them under the Arminius name. FIE went bankrupt in 1990.

There is a third Arminius--it is the trade name of Gregorio Bolumburu of Spain. That's all I have been able to find out about it.

Currently EAA is the exclusive importer of Weihrauch firearms to the U.S. The DA "Windicator" revolver is made by HW. In the early 1990s, there were several models of Windicator but now there's just the 2" and 4"barrel options on a single model (looks equivalent to the old EAA Standard Grade") available in .38 and .357.

Soo, it looks like there have been at least two makers of Arminius revolvers--(Two of them named Arminius in Germany and then FIE in the U.S.) It also looks like various HW products have been sold under various names in the U.S. (FIE, EAA, Weihrauch, Arminius, HW, Beeman, ?).

It also appears that the price (and maybe the quality?) of the Weihrauch firearms runs the gamut. The target grade Windicator (when it was still being imported in the early 1990s) sold for around $500 while the standard grade goes for around $250-$300 today. Still in the webcrawling I've done on this topic, I have yet to find anything negative about the reliability or function of the guns.

Then there's the mystery of the third Arminius in Spain that I can't find any information on...

I can't find any connection between Arminius and Rohm or HW and Rohm-- other than they're both revolvers made in Germany. I did find one quote saying that a particular HW revolver was virtually identical to one revolver that Rohm made.

[Ala Dan]

Many thanks for the research John, as it was very helpful.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[chrisbob]

i have an arminius By-H.weihrauch made in w. germany in the town of mellrichstat. on the side it is stamped 44 arm I was told "44 army" many of the parts are the same but I am need a hammer and a couple other. These parts I haven't found yet. Mainly because I don't have a model # or schematic of the gun. It was imported by F.I.E. MIAMI/FL A .
I am not sure but I think it is single action. Many of the old repro b/p's parts fit. Not the hammer or a couple other parts. The ruger super blackhawk is nearly identical internally can anyone post pictures of the parts so I don't order the wrong ones.
THANX

[bulbboy]

I was given a .38 Arminus and it shot ok - I sold it for $125 and was told by several people that it was worth that or a little less. I guess I would stick with a known commodity.

[chrisbob]

I found this old post by googling H.Weihrauch I hope someone can direct me to a parts manufacturer that has the parts I have already tried numrichs ie E-GUNPARTS.com

[JohnKSa]

As a last resort, you might try contacting Weihrauch to see if they have any old stock. But be careful about importing gun parts, it's easy to run afoul of the law.

[chrisbob]

I am going to take it to a smith he should be able find or make the parts I need.:)

[bsides2005]

I wanted to let you guys know that my HW 44mag is a great weapon. The trigger however is VERY light. I have almost blown my toes off when pulling my 44 to finish off a large east texas white tail. As a 6 shooter though, it needs a lot of tlc. Also, I have been able to hit paper at 100 yards with it.

[JohnKSa]

Posts like yours make me wish I had bought the HW 38 I saw years ago. Of course I probably would have traded or sold it by now if I had...

[Jejozi]

I just brought home a Arminius HW .357 from my mother's house. It had belonged to my uncle, her brother. He bought it new in 1980, still has the receipt, for $138.50 (along with a .38 for $108.00). It looks as though it's never been fired.

According to the guarantee in the owners manual:

This revolver is distributed by the

Firearms Import and Export Corp.
2470 N. W. 21st. Street
Maimi, Florida 33142
and is made in the factory
of Sporting Arms


Hermann Weihrausch o.H.G
D 87744 Mellrichstadt
West Germany

It also includes a blow up schematic of the weapon as well as a parts list.

[Magnum.35744]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=78064458


Personally I've got to handle one of these belonged to my friends Dad, it was a very nice gun and it looked as if it were in new condition, perfect bluing, and locking etc :D. Bought him some bullets not to long ago only to find out they didn’t fit...here's some more about that topic here...

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251909

Hope this helps ;).

-Tre

[James Huff]

I have a 357 Weihrauch Arminius.It is in very good condition except for a broken grip. Does anyone know where I can get parts for this gun? Thank You ,James email is jfhufft@aol.com

[ripfromok]

It seems that this is the most informed thread Ive seen on hw guns, I just swapped for a beautiful hw4mag thats been worked over by a smith who knows his way around a gun and I am very happy with it, I would however like to something of the value of these guns if anyone can help

[Atarian]

i picked up a used hw3 in 32 s&w long (posted in another thread). this was a used gun, with finish wear but a pristine barrel. when i got it home, i noticed the barrel was loose, even though it was pinned. punched the pin, removed and cleaned the barrel, and reinstalled with new loc-tite and pin. went to re-intall the front sight and noticed that it was no longer at the 12 o'clock position. there was no way that barrel was coming out without some major effort, so i took it to the range to make sure it would at least test-fire ok. it did - as long as the hammer was cocked slowly. if cocked rapidly, the cylinder would bind and not allow the hammer to fully cock about half the time.

i cannot speak intelligently about the previous owner(s) care of this revolver, so this may be of no use to you. i was disappointed - i expected more from a german firearm. i paid $95...

[lee n. field]

Arminius is a German manufacturer (for whatever that's worth - but German stuff is typically pretty good)

Rohm being a counterexample.

[Mot45acp]

I had one in 44 mag. It appeared to be an exact copy of a Ruger.

Light trigger is right.

Only revolver to ever leave me a scar to remember it by. The trigger guard would split the knuckle on my middle finger. I assume it was my grip.

[cannonballmount]

I bought an Arminius HW.357 and I am extremely impressed.

Testing factory loads, I rattled through 175 rounds in 5 round groups, at 25 yards, using a sand bag wrist rest.

Testing factory 158 grain .357, 10, 5 shot groups, the worst was 2.5 in. the best was 1.9 inch, with an average just over 2 inches.

Testing 158 grain .38 Special factory loads, also 10, 5 shot groups the worst was 1.8 in. the best was 1.1 inch, with a 1.5 inch average.

Testing 148 grain .38 wadcutters, 10 groups of 5,the worst was 1.3 inches, the best was a staggering .8 inch!

Testing 125 grain .38+P loads, the worst was .9 inch the best was a bit tighter that .4 inch!

These German 6 shooters can SHOOT!

I would like to get this piece checked out and tuned by a top wheelgun gunsmith and use it in competition!

[scooby]

I have an Arminius HW357 that is missing the rear sight.
Does anyone know where I can buy one ?
Or know a P/N, any info is appretiated :)

[CHAINGUNMASSACRE]

I found an Arminius HW357 in a box in my garage. I had inherited it about 12 years earlier, and packed it away and forgot about it. After cleaning it all up, oiling it, and inspecting it I bought some ammo and headed for the range. It's a Colt SAA clone, so the rear sight is just a groove in the topstrap. With CCI Blazer 158 gr LRN I was shooting 2 in groups at 25 yards. Consistently, and to point of aim. This just blew me away! The trigger is actually really good, so is the feel when you cock the hammer. I get the feeling that these guns were not actually junk, they are just unknown and nobody cares. I'm keeping mine!

[scooby]

I also have a Arminius 38 special that has the same rear sight as what you describe.
But my 357 had an adjustable rear sight. until the srew fell out and half the rear sight was lost.
I asked locally and a gunsmith offered me $150 cash for mine as is, so I sold it to him. I already have plenty of revolvers and only 2 hands :what:

But I agree they are actualy a pretty decent inexpensive gun.

Hey "the Germans always make good stuff" :neener:

[woad_yurt]

A gunsmith should have sight blanks with different dovetail sizes. I saw a guy with a tacklebox full of them. They cost a few bucks or so, maybe five, max. Find one that fits your gun's dovetail and start filing.

[SDC]

"Arminius" is a trade-name used by Herman Weihrauch (who is best known for their high-end airguns); they chose "Arminius" because it was the name of the leader of one of the Germanic tribes that resisted the Roman take-over during the Romans' expansion through Europe.

[CHAINGUNMASSACRE]

Surprisingly, mine is a very faithful reproduction of the SAA. Even down to the case hardened finish, which appears to be well-executed. I am still in shock over how well it shot. I never expected to like the gun, or even care about it, but to me any weapon that is accurate and reliable kinda endears itself to me. I'll keep her. Maybe as a camping/backpacking peice.

[5-SHOTS]

Ok, I know that this thread is old but I want to add some informations and a little report of one Weihrauch that I shoot a couple of months ago.
Arminius revolver are (now) made by Weihrauch in Germany. The official site is www.hermann-weihrauch-revolver.de. As you can see inside the “O” of the word “REVOLVER” in the home page there’s the old Arminius logo with the written ”ARMINIUS REVOLVER”. The site is simple but very rational and the products are subdivided by type (please note the Target Trophy section: very nice revolvers).
As I previously said, I had the chance to shot one Weihrauch side by side with my S&W 686 Plus 2.5” barrel. It was the Weihrauch HW357 with the 4” barrel and fixed sights, .357Mag caliber and six shots. Before shooting I deeply inspected the gun. Size is on the K-frame side and I’m sure that every holster for a 4” barrel K/L-frame fits perfectely for this gun. The design reminds me Charter Arms revolvers. The frame, cylinder and barrel are made of carbon steel with a very nice blueing on it and a good fit&finish. Some of the .38Spl and .22L.R. models (only the cheaper ones of course, not the Target Trophy ones for example) have a zinc-alloy frame. I’m pretty sure that the barrel shroud and the trigger guard-grip frame is made of zinc-alloy also: not a big issue really. These last parts are probably black anodized and again the fit&finish is good. The trigger guard-grip frame is pinned to the steel frame (like Charter Arms) and the barrel shroud is fitted to the front of the steel frame and pinned to the barrel. The cylinder turns clockwise (like Charter Arms) and the crane assembly and lockup is again the same of Charter Arms but feels much more sturdy in my opinion. The hammer hits the firing pin using a transfer bar (again like Charter Arms). The forcing cone is surprising thin for a .357Mag revolver but there’s a bunch of steel all around it. Timing was perfect, so was the lockup and the gap between barrel and cylinder. Operation of the revolver was very smooth (open-close cylinder, action of the ejection star). One thing that I didn’t like was the finish of the trigger , hammer and release button: matt black and prone to rust in my opinion.
Now the range report: I shoot the thing against a paper target at 10 yards. VERY well balanced weapon, great rubber grips, good fixed sigths. The double action was a little heavy and gritty compared to the one of my 686 but nothing unmanageable. The gun had only 100 or so rounds before the test so I’m pretty sure that another 1000 rounds and 2000 dry fires can solve the (little) problem. I don’t know if it is safe to dry fire this gun without snap caps. The single action was again heavy but breaks very well. Trigger and hammer are thin so probably the action felt a little heavier than it really is. I shot some cylinders of Fiocchi .357Mag 142gr FMJ TC and some cylinders of Fiocchi .38Spl 148gr LWC HB. Recoil is never an issue and I can say with .357Mag the thing is more manageable than my 686. Accuracy was good with both the ammunition tested but not in the same category of the 686 (even if it has better sights of course). The threads on the barrel are not very in relief (more on the Ruger side than on the S&W side). Extraction was perfect and the strikes were powerful and well centered. I shoot decent groups DAO (from 2,5” to 3’’) a little low and on the left to POA (like the owner did) but another guy shoot similar groups to POA so it was probably a grip method issue or something like that. Inerent accuracy of the gun is out of question.
And now a comparison between the Weihrauch HW357 and the S&W 686:
Fit&finish: S&W wins hands down.
Accuracy: S&W wins hands down.
Trigger: S&W wins hands down.
Operation: S&W wins.
Grips: Weihrauch wins in my opinion (I have the stock Bantam Monogrips on my S&W).
Shootability: Weihrauch wins by a small margin.
Handling: Weihrauch wins.
Balance: Weihrauch wins (4” against 2.5”).
Price: Weihrauch WINS HANDS DOWN.
This gun here in Italy is 60% cheaper than a comparable S&W, 40% cheaper than a Taurus, 50% cheaper than a Ruger and new is still cheaper than a comparable used revolver of the mentioned companies. The company (www.bignami.it) that imports Weihrauch revolvers is the same that imports S&W, Ruger, STI, H&K, Glock, CZ, SIG-Sauer, SIG, Hammerli and so on, so I’m sure that every Weihrauch they sell here is a good one.
I have no problem to rate the gun I’ve tested with five stars for home defence or car gun. With fixed sights is not a 25 yards range gun but it is very fun and easy to shoot. I’ll buy it in a second if only italian gun laws allowed to own more of three “defensive” guns that I actually own and I’m seriously considering to purchase the Weihrauch HW9 Target Trophy .22L.R. 6” barrel that is stated as “sporting” gun which we can own six .


Best regards, 5-SHOTS.

[roaddog28]

Years ago I had a 38 special 4 inch Arminius. It was without a doubt a very ugly revolver in appearance. But they are made well and are cheap. For a truck gun or whatever you can't go wrong. In case something happen to the revolver it not a big loss.
Good luck,
roaddog28