Can I get a "no trespass" for this?


PDA






megatronrules
August 7, 2004, 10:51 PM
I was hanging at a local convienance store were a couple of friends of mine work tonight I was the for about 2 hours we were just b.s.'in and stuff. Anyways when the 3rd shift people come in there the first of which for some god knows what reason don't like me says if she comes in there again and sees me there shes gonna call the cops and have them give me a no trespass order. Now I'am saying to myself how do you tespass in a public place where you spend money everyday? Now yeah its true I go there alot but thats because it right near my house and my friends work there but i've never heard of a no trespass before nor have i ever been asked by anyone there to leave. My question is guys in florida is what Iam doing considered loiterring? theres no sign that says anything to this effect and I may be wrong here but since when is it illegel to stand in a public place,buy things there and talk to a friend?

Now I go there almost every day on my way to and from work to gas up and get things and yes I hang out the when my friends are working,but even if I did so everyday I don't see the illegality in any of what I'am doing. To me this is nothing more than some girl who hates her life and is miserable and wants to just find something to complain about. Now mind you i've never been rude or anything to this girl not once but I've told her politly but firmly that I'd shop wherever I pleased.

If you enjoyed reading about "Can I get a "no trespass" for this?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Zundfolge
August 7, 2004, 10:57 PM
was hanging at a local convienance store were a couple of friends of mine work tonight I was the for about 2 hours we were just b.s.'in and stuff.

If you're there at the behest of the employees you are not trespassing or loitering (now if you have to press the issue you might get your buddies in trouble with their boss).

2nd Amendment
August 7, 2004, 10:59 PM
Was the person who told you to leave managment or an owner? If so then you've just been given official notice. If not then you just heard the wind blow. I *might* make a point of not going there while carrying, though. She might be able to make an issue of that regardless of her official capacity. I'd also point out that you might be endangering your friends jobs, again regardless of her capacity, simply because of the assumed distraction you represent.

megatronrules
August 7, 2004, 11:04 PM
No shes not managment or owner just an employee but me being the peaceful person I am just took my stuff and left rather than argue with her. I to thought about if she decides to be a jerk call the cops that I have my gun one me whats it look like you know? I just felt it easier to leave.

2nd Amendment
August 7, 2004, 11:08 PM
Ask your friends to ask the boss if he/she has a problem with your presence. if not then you really have nothing to worry about. An employee only has so much authority in representing a business and none at all if she in direct opposition to what the boss/owner has said. That being said I would leave the pea-shooter at home regardless(again, unless the boss/owner OK's that, too...).

Wildalaska
August 7, 2004, 11:09 PM
I would think that one would have far better things to do with ones time than "hanging" and "b.s.'in and stuff" for hours at a business where the public goes....

Ifin you were doing this at my place I would fire your friend.

May I suggest going home and reading a book? I can give you a reading list that would be far more benificial to you in your life than just "hanging"

WildsuperciliousagainAlaska

2nd Amendment
August 7, 2004, 11:13 PM
If we're talking about a convenience store or gas station(or even a liquor store) here some employers actually encourage a friend or two to hang around on evening and nite shifts. The idea being a "busy" place is less likely to be robbed. I don't know if it actually *works* but such is the theory. Now if this is production work or a grocery store or something I'd have to agree with Wild.

carpettbaggerr
August 7, 2004, 11:26 PM
Write a nice letter to the owner. Include copies of your receipts. Maybe she'll get fired, and learn to really love life.

joab
August 7, 2004, 11:26 PM
The main problem is that you were not on public property you were on private property that the public has access to with the owners permission.
If you were hangin out for 2 hours at a convienence store I doubt you were spending money for 2 hours, stores are generally not set up to operate that way
If the shift manager feels that you are impedeing the other employees work she has the right to no trespass you. If she feels that for whatever reason you are an undesirable element she can trespass you
You have the right to take them to court to prove thatthey discriminated against you for whatever reason but you still have to obey the no trespass order

2nd Amendment
August 7, 2004, 11:30 PM
As was noted, this wasn't a manager.

megatronrules
August 7, 2004, 11:31 PM
Actually wild I do have better things to do I was simply viisting on a slow night and to answer another poster here its a gas station and they ask me to hang around sometimes because of working late. I've juat decided to go somewhere else for a while rather the hear her moaning and complaining as for my friend I'll visit at thair house from now on thanks all for your replies.

carpettbaggerr
August 7, 2004, 11:37 PM
Ifin you were doing this at my place I would fire your friend. How often is Spiff in your shop again? :scrutiny:

joab
August 7, 2004, 11:39 PM
As was noted, this reportedly wasn't a manager.
I doubt that a mere employee would make the threat in front of a manager.
Evert shift has 1 person in charge. Many people do not realize that one 7-11 has several managers not just a manager and assistant manager but also a shift manager for each shift.

2nd Amendment
August 8, 2004, 12:25 AM
*Scratches head*

He did not indicate any manager was present. Many convenience stores and gas stations have no manager present at all on 3rd shift(and only part of 2nd).

As for things employees will say, even when a manager is present...have you ever been an owner or manager? :) Personally I have been oft amazed.

joab
August 8, 2004, 12:30 AM
Many convenience stores and gas stations have no manager present at all on 3rd shift(and only part of 2nd). Not true of any store that I have serviced, and I have serviced many. If there is no manager present as you say, the person at the store at the time has authority to have the police issue a no trespass becuse they are the default manager.
I serviced 7-11s for 7 years they all have shift managers for every shift
I serviced many small gas stations for over 20 years the person on duty on a single person shift has control of the store.

2nd Amendment
August 8, 2004, 12:51 AM
OK. we're getting into technicalities now. First off, there's not a 24/7 station in this area with more than one person on-shift. While I am sure they have "authority" on their shift they aren't going to be able to come in and say anything about a previous shift. Also, meg noted this person was not management, that there were multiple people on the shift but said nothing whatsoever about any manager being present. Thus apparently nothing was said in front of a manager if a manager was present, which is why I said he needed to have his friend inquire about policy on the subject.

Stand_Watie
August 8, 2004, 12:51 AM
I serviced many small gas stations for over 20 years the person on duty on a single person shift has control of the store.

So who's in charge of the store? When the police show up, that's what they're going to ask if FLA tresspass law is similar to Texas or Michigan law.

Megatron, I'll bow to those who live in Florida, but I don't think you have anything to worry about, so long as you leave anytime you are asked to leave by an employee.

joab
August 8, 2004, 01:04 AM
In Fla you must leave if asked if you are there when the police show up you will be no trespssed.
So who's in charge of the store? When the police show up, that's what they're going to ask if FLA tresspass law is similar to Texas or Michigan law. The person in control of the store is in charge of the store and can have a no trespass issued without calling for approval. I seen it done many times.

2A I know you like to split frog hairs and argue, I don't. I have told you what I know to be common practice based on over 20 years experience dealing with this type of business in the state in question.
Believe me if you want or don't I don't particularly care.

Stand_Watie
August 8, 2004, 01:13 AM
The person in control of the store is in charge of the store and can have a no trespass issued without calling for approval. I seen it done many times.

Yes, that was my question. Who is in control of the store?

joab
August 8, 2004, 01:26 AM
If you go to a store and ask the first employee to speak to the person in charge and he says that he is the only one there. He is in charge
If he says hold on let me get my manager from the back room, the person he produces is in charge

The person who has physical control of the store is in charge. If that is a single employee then he is in charge. I have never seen it done any other way.

Except for the fact that in most central Fla jurisdictions it is mandated that after 10:00 there must be at least 2 employees on duty if there is not a bullet proof divider between the employee and the public. In which case there would be a shift manager who would be in charge of the store. Unless and until they had the audacity to wake the store manager up in the middle of the night to get permission to issue a no trespass warning.

2nd Amendment
August 8, 2004, 01:27 AM
Interesting, joab, since I was about to tell you that it appeared to me you simply were looking to argue since you did not appear to have read what he, or I, actually said but I just didn't care enough about the topic to bother. So by all means, you win. :rolleyes:

Stand_Watie
August 8, 2004, 01:40 AM
If you go to a store and ask the first employee to speak to the person in charge and he says that he is the only one there. He is in charge
If he says hold on let me get my manager from the back room, the person he produces is in charge.The person who has physical control of the store is in charge. If that is a single employee then he is in charge. I have never seen it done any other way

I realize that. The question I was asking was which of the two employees cited in the original post was in charge of the store at the time of the incident.

2nd Amendment
August 8, 2004, 01:47 AM
Also why I asked if this specific person was management. Also why I suggested getting a decision from management thus removing any vagaries caused by questions of who is in charge and when. Seems like there are two entirely separate discussions going on here.

joab
August 8, 2004, 02:32 AM
I realize that. The question I was asking was which of the two employees cited in the original post was in charge of the store at the time of the incident. My bad, got caught up in a pointless discussion with someone else and put it off on you.

The question as I understood it was could the poster be no trespassed for the behavior described. The answer is yes. I do not necessarily believe that the person who complained was not a manager , she may very well be and this is not known by the poster because he is a visitor not an employee.

The poster also made the comment that they did not think they could because they were on public property, which also is not the case. They are on private property and loitering is whatever the store wants to call loitering.

Stand_Watie
August 8, 2004, 02:47 AM
My bad, got caught up in a pointless discussion with someone else and put it off on you...The question as I understood it was could the poster be no trespassed for the behavior described...

No problem. Yes, I agree with you (again under my understanding of tresspass law in other states) - a person could be given a no trespass citation just because the person in charge of the property doesn't like them or for any other reason short of civil rights protected issues, provided the police had -

A) A complaining party who was actually in charge of the store, and not some idiot who came by on their own time to try and make trouble

B) A tresspasser who was actually foolish enough to wait around for the police to show up after being told to leave.

spacemanspiff
August 8, 2004, 05:18 AM
so WA, you gonna fire yourself next time i come in and fondle the hardware for 2 hours and bs with the customers?

:evil: :neener: .



actually, its not a good idea to just 'hang out' with friends who are in a business that supposed to be projecting a professional appearance, and a gas station most definitely doesnt want to be known as 'the place where youngsters hang out'.
your friends co-workers could complain to the boss and get your friend fired.

common sense, man. try having a dish for breakfast every now and then.

grislyatoms
August 8, 2004, 09:40 AM
In my home state (Va.) when I was younger, I was once charged with trespassing. However, the charge was dismissed because the property was not posted.

Loitering might stick, though.

Firethorn
August 8, 2004, 12:45 PM
Well, as he was talking with the previous shift staff, that would count as permission to be there, at least for that shift.

The third shift (with the one who dislikes him), withdrew that permission, and he left. The "If I see you here again" part has no authority unless she is management, or otherwise outranks the 2nd shift, unless she gets the management to back it up.

Mikul
August 9, 2004, 01:33 PM
Frequently "hanging at a local convienance store were a couple of friends of mine work" for 2 hours and "just b.s.'in and stuff" is certainly in the realm of unreasonable. I can't say that I would blame anyone for wanting you to move along.

Heck, if you're going to spend that much time in the store, you should get a job there and get paid for it.

carebear
August 9, 2004, 01:40 PM
Loitering in Anchorage used to have a positive defense. As long as you had $20 in cash or gold you weren't "loitering".

Just hangin' with intent to buy maybe. :D

Oh, 100% of the time I was in WWG recently Spiff was there. We hadn't met, so I thought he was an employee. :p

R.H. Lee
August 9, 2004, 01:42 PM
Maybe she thought you were stalking her, or just didn't like your looks.

c_yeager
August 9, 2004, 01:53 PM
Here is the short field guide to not getting a "tresspass" from the police.

If someone who works at a store tells you leave, you leave.

There ya go.

Wildalaska
August 9, 2004, 02:28 PM
so WA, you gonna fire yourself next time i come in and fondle the hardware for 2 hours and bs with the customers?

I just did:)

Oh, 100% of the time I was in WWG recently Spiff was there. We hadn't met, so I thought he was an employee

Hes gonna be...unpaid...

WildworkslaveworkAlaska

El Rojo
August 9, 2004, 08:35 PM
I would think that one would have far better things to do with ones time than "hanging" and "b.s.'in and stuff" for hours at a business where the public goes....

Ifin you were doing this at my place I would fire your friend.

May I suggest going home and reading a book? I can give you a reading list that would be far more benificial to you in your life than just "hanging"Boy that isn't judgemental or anything. I am a little disappointed WildAlaska. If a guy wants to hang out and fellowship with friends, what is wrong with that? Not everything in life has to be about satisfying your standards of worthwhile. If the owner has an issue with it, then so be it, get out.

However, I could see hanging out as not being a big deal as long as the employees are paying attention to customers and being responsive. I say we stick to the subject and leave our gavels at home. No need to project your own judgements and preference on to someone else.

I recommend talking to you friends and have them talk to the boss. If they are unwilling, take that as a hint to not hang out anymore or at least not hang out when she is going to show up. Your an adult, you make your own decisions.

carebear
August 10, 2004, 02:29 AM
Wild,

Back in the day, that's sorta what happened to my buds and I over at The Firing Line. (the range, not the forum, for all you non-Anchorigians)

We spent so much time after shooting hanging out, Rod hired us so he could send us home. :D

Wildalaska
August 10, 2004, 03:18 AM
If a guy wants to hang out and fellowship with friends, what is wrong with that? Not everything in life has to be about satisfying your standards of worthwhile.

Well guess what thats how we all learn isnt it...maybe ifin my snide comments change one persons life for the better, its worth it eh....maybe some other kid readin the board will say...Hey wow maybe I am wastin time hangin out at the local Beef and Burger...maybe Ill go home and study Chinese....

Which is preferable.....????


WilddidmyhanginandwishedIhadntAlaska

DigitalWarrior
August 10, 2004, 03:35 AM
Wild,
With all due respect (and there is a lot of respect for you), when I am old and dying, all of the things I learned, including Chinese, will turn to dust. I imagine that all I will find important is the memory of the warmth of my wife's embrace, and the love and laughter of friends. The joy of our overcome shared hardship. The way the lake felt as I dove in on that crisp october morning. Looking over the port side of our sailboat and seeing in the clear water the whales which are bigger than our boat, and who we see, but cannot know. Sitting on top of a counter at a convenience store at 2am and discussing the things that young men discuss when not under the watchful eye of their parents. I know that I am glad I spent time doing it.

I love learning, but I hope that I do not waste my limited time here. I am now going to walk into the other room, tell my wife I love her, and watch her eyes sparkle. Goodnight Sir.

Double Naught Spy
August 10, 2004, 07:09 AM
If a representative of the property tells you to leave, then you have to leave. It does not have to be mgmt or an owner, just a representatve. The clerk can call the cops just like mgmt or an owner.

As for being in a public place where you shop everyday and not thinking you could trespass there, think again. It does not matter if it is a public place where you regularly shop. It is private property. So while public for business, it is not public for other activities like loitering.

El Rojo
August 10, 2004, 09:30 AM
Well guess what thats how we all learn isnt it...maybe ifin my snide comments change one persons life for the better, its worth it eh....maybe some other kid readin the board will say...Hey wow maybe I am wastin time hangin out at the local Beef and Burger...maybe Ill go home and study Chinese....

Which is preferable.....????First, I don't know if your snide comments are an effective way to get people to change. Generally youngsters on the web don't take snide comments to heart. I guess you have perfected the life changing snide comment as no one else has.

Second, you ask, "Which is preferable?" Hmmmmm, go hang out with friends or go study chinese, which I have very little to no use for? Chinese? Come on Wild, now I know you are just pulling my chain. Either way, what is preferable to you and what is preferable to someone else might be completely different. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. However, you make it seem more like fact with your condecending and bitting remarks as if yours is the only way. "Everyone learn chinese comrads! Do it for Mao!"

Finally, from a guy who has 4390 posts (that is 7.38 posts per day) from "hanging out and BSin" on an online discussion board, you sure can call that kettle black Mr. Pot. To each their own.

spacemanspiff
August 10, 2004, 12:14 PM
but you fail to see the difference rojo....

is WA coming into YOUR place of work and disrupting YOUR work ethic? or are YOU coming to a place where you can read our inane opinions?

a gun shop is one of the very few places of business where 'hanging out' is not frowned upon by management. employers seek to provide a work environment where there are the least amount of distractions so their employees can perform their job. having kids 'hanging around b.s.ing' is a distraction.


wait, i think i just realized why megatron might be 'hanging around' at gas stations during the 2nd shift: his buddy might not be allowed to carry and would like someone nearby to intervene. and thats even worse. i would have a tough time stepping into harms way just because a friend WILLINGLY put himself or herself there.

El Rojo
August 10, 2004, 11:40 PM
I think you misunderstood me Spacemanspiff. My issue is with Wildalaska telling this guy he should have better things to do and more specifically that he should be spending his time on better pursuits like learning Chinese. Wildalaska find fault in Megatronrules hanging out and BSin with friends, but he seems to not fault fault in his own hanging out with us and BSin with us. If a guy wants to spend his time hanging out with friends, let him. If he wants to do it at someone else's house or store where they tell him to take off, then he does not have that right. His case isn't quite that clear cut, but it is close.

We shouldn't bother telling him he is wasting his time or that he is wrong for wanting to hang out with his friends. We shouldn't care if he wants to hang out to take a bullet for his friends. Sure you can state your opinion that it isn't something you would want to do, but to say he is right or wrong for hanging out with his friends is your opinion and in my opinion arrogant, rude, and self-defeating. Do not confuse the issue of his legality in being there with his intent for being there.

Art Eatman
August 10, 2004, 11:50 PM
This has gone far enough down the road of thread drift...

So, let's just drift on off somewhere else...

Art

If you enjoyed reading about "Can I get a "no trespass" for this?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!