[Dave R]

I have been shooting a LOT of .22LR lately. It just got me thinking...is there any way you can "shoot out" the barrel of a .22lr rifle? I'm thinking the pressures and velocities are low enough that it would take more than 1 lifetime to do.

With proper maintenance, barrel life is approximately forever?

My Marlin Model 60 is 24 years old, and as accurate as the day I first fired it. My Romanian .22 is even older, and just as accurate, if not more so.

[gun-fucious]

over exuberent cleaning has prolly trashed more barrels than shooting ever will.

my marlin 60 manual doesn't even recommend cleaning the bore

;)

i would think 20,000 rounds would be MTBF

[H&Hhunter]

About 1 trillion rounds I think.

[Jim K]

The old guns were ruined by failing to clean the gun after firing black powder and by corrosive and ground glass priming. Today, I agree with gun-fucious that over-cleaning of the fairly soft .22 barrels is the main cause of wear. Stick to a bore cleaner and soft patches for a few passes after firing and reduce use of bronze brushes. With reasonable care, a modern .22 barrel should last many lifetimes.

Jim

[Hornet]

The only 22 I have worn out was a old remington single shot. The part of the chamber that is notched for the extractor has worn down so fare that it causes a slight bulg in the fired case.

[goon]

Alot of rounds.
My dad has a 60 some year old Remington 512 (?) that still shoots very well. It was totally unrivaled until I bought my CZ. The CZ will beat it, but there isn't a scope on it either. Me and my brother used to be able to hit empty 22 shells at 30 yards or so with it when we could see them. Excellent balance.
But to answer your question, alot.

[Zorro]

I have my grandfathers .22 Squirrel rifle, the blueing has turned into a browning, an OLD! Winchester M52.

Still can hit Walnuts with it at 100 yards everytime with Winchester Super-X Hollowpoints.

I expect in 75 more years it will still do the same.

Great Crow/Gopher sniper rifle!

[GD]

I bet I have over 15,000 rounds through my Remington 522 and it still shoots like the day I bought it used. Who knows the total rounds through it. I shoot 1 inch groups with it at 75 yards. I clean it every 1000 rounds (Since it is semiautomatic it is more sensitive to being dirty).

[shermacman]

I have my father's Winchester 75 bolt action rifle. He won the 1937 Oregon State Junior Shooting Award with it. He must have put several thousand rounds through it. I shoot with it constantly and conservatively have fired 100,000 rounds since I inherited it. It is no longer 'blue' but a lovely multi-shade of gun oil brown. I can shoot the eyes out of a squirrel with it at 50 yards...cuz I have! I have always been amazed at the thickness of the barrel in relation to the bore compared to larger caliber rifles.

[Al Thompson]

My coach had a S&W M41 with more than 140,000 rounds through it, still shot very well. I've quit cleaning .22 bores, usually just run an oily patch down them for corrosion control.

[RustyHammer]

I think my finger will wear out before my barrel will.

[HSMITH]

I don't clean 22 bores either. I have 2 diferent 22's with over 100K through each of them and they both shoot just as well as they did on day one.

[thumbtack]

I have Remington 241 that my grandfather gave me in 1979 and I know that I have put thousands and thousands of rounds through it. There is no telling how many rounds he put through hunting squirrels. It shots as good today as it did back in 1979 when I first got it.

[trapshooter]

I think the consensus is, none of us can count that high.:D

[Dave R]

Regarding cleaning the .22lr, I think its the only caliber I shoot where I do all my bore cleaning with a bore snake. I believe you can't just leave the bore alone for 000's of rounds, but no need to push a rod down it, either. 3 pulls of the bore snake with CLP or G-96 seems like a good cleaning regimen to me. Cleaning the action of a semi-auto is a little more normal.

[Art Eatman]

I have an old Shuetzen rifle from (Dunno fer sure) the late 1800s. It has been shot enough that the extractor is quite worn. Takes a lot of shooting for brass to wear out steel.

From a benchrest at 40 yards, you'll get bored and quit before your group size exceeds an inch.

[Swamp Yankee]

I have my Dad's old Remington TargetMaster in the safe. He received this rifle as a birthday present in the early 1930's. As this was the only gun in the house, and he had six brothers it has certainly seen its share of ammo. This does not include the thousands of rounds I put through it growing up.
In short I would tend to think far more .22s are ruined by rusting and pitting of the bore due to lack of care and maintenance than having been shot out.
Take Care

[sasnofear]

a .22lr rifle still needs cleaned EVERY time after its shot, other wise it will pit!

[Matthew_Q]

An old guy I met at a match once said he still wins matches with a .22 bolt action rifle that his older brother bought for $7 in about 1934.


Don't clean the bore. The waxing of the bullet gets settled in, and acts as a barrier.

[Art Eatman]

sasnofear, I imagine that climate has a lot to do with any bore-pitting. My wife's home-area in south Georgia gets some four to five feet of rain, annually, and yet I've had no problems with bores pitting. However, without regular oiling the outsides of guns definitely get a sheen of rust.

My desert area, with its seven or so inches of rainfall, makes rust-avoidance trivially easy. :) The biggest danger is a drop of sweat!

Art

[sm]

More concerned with chamber--in anything of any caliber. Next concerns are exterior from handling and storage.

[cratz2]

I admit I'm guilty of cleaning after every shooting. I wonder if a bore snake-type item with no brushes would do for rimfire rifles?

[gk1]

Most serious .22 target rifle shooters clean the bores of their rifles VERY sparingly. That doesn't mean they ignore them; just prevent rust, and all will be fine with the barrel. The exterior should be wiped down, and the moving parts should have the gunk removed, but there's no need to run a cleaning rod through a .22 barrel everytime you shoot it, unless you want to keep a barrel maker and a gunsmith in business.

George

[sasnofear]

now guys i could be wroung here so stop me if i am! (though im not :)

after shooting a .308, even just one shot would you pack it away or clean it...thats right yould clean it. now last time i checked .308 and .22lr both use powder.

.22lr uses powder, powder in the bore and chamber will 'eat' metal. now a .22lr and .308 metal part of the rifle is exactly the same thus will both be affected by powder the same. (7.62 uses more powder however princible is the same) basicly if you leave .22 and .308 fired and uncleaned they are both going to be damaged thus an effect on accuracy. you theory is correct for air rifles but not .22lr

just like a friend of mine with a .22lr is to lazy to clean his barrel = pitting!

so after use...clean your barrel EVERY time.

remember undercleaning is going to affect barrel ware more cleaning it after a session.

after all do you leave your .308's for ages b4 cleaning 2 stop barrel ware? i thought not!

Adam

[sasnofear]

ART- if rust will form on the outside of barrel is there some majic power stopping rust from inside of barrel? i think not, im sure theres rust there but you just cant see it, maby in sporting use u may not nottice different but in .22 comps you would!

[Art Eatman]

I dunno, but I think it was Remington who first came out with "Luballoy" .22 bullets. Anyhow, there's some sort of wax or hard grease on them that does put a very, very thin coating in the barrel. This coating does act as a rust inhibitor.

Low pressure, low temperature, soft bullets: The monkey-motion parts will wear out long before a barrel gives up. But I've seen more old .22s hurt from dry-firing than from any sort of wear from shooting, overall.

If I shoot just a few rounds with a centerfire, and plan on shooting again within a few days, I've never bothered with any cleaning. If it will be a more lengthy period, I'll run an oily patch through the barrel. Now, the caveat here is that it's a weather function. In humid or rainy weather, I check stuff fairly often, inside and out, whether or not I've been shooting. Hunt season in Terlingua? Well, the humidity sometimes gets all the way up to 15% or 20%. Summer is the rainy season...

Art

[JohnBT]

The FAQ on the Lilja barrel site says:

"The best life can be expected from the 22 long rifle barrels with 5000-10,000 accurate rounds to be expected."

Note the word "accurate" and remember that these barrels are used by large number of winning target shooters.

John

[gk1]

From Anschuetz' manual for their high-end smallbore target rifles:

"Regular care after every shooting:


Please only use resin and acid free oils.
Remove any residues from the barrel. Clean with a lint-free cloth or pull cleaning cords several times through the barrel from chamber to muzzle to remove deposits. Subsequently pull a slightly oiled, lint-free cloth or cleaning cords through the barrel to avoid corrosion.
Clean the bolt with a slightly oiled cloth.
Make sure that the metal parts of your rifle are protected against corrosion by a slight oil film.
Remove the oil film with a dry cloth or cleaning cords before you shoot again.


New rifles up to 10,000 shots in 1,000 shot intervals, subsequently in 5,000 shot intervals at least.


Use oil to clean the barrel and push a brass brush from the chamber to the muzzle. Never move the brush back and forth in the barrel. Only clean in shooting direction. Remove the brush outside of the muzzle and carefully pull the rod back through the barrel.
Then pull cleaning cords in dry condition through the barrel until the last one shows no considerable dirt.
Before shooting the next time fire 5 shots to get back to the former shooting performance.
Clean external parts with a slightly oiled cloth."


George

[sasnofear]

as gk1 shows ITS IN THE MANUAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ART- remind me NEVER to take cleaning tips from you, i cant belive that you wouldn't clean a full boar if you only had a couple of shots. from this i can deduct 2 things:

1/ you dont enter 'proper' shooting comps otherwise due to your cleaning (or lack of it) you would notice how badly your accuracy is compared to other people with similer rifles due to bad maintanence.

2/ you live in the country and just hunt and you dont handload or take much interest in getting as much accuracy from your guns as you can.

Is this close to the truth?


Adam

[Al Thompson]

Sas, nothing could be further from the truth. FWIW, high power rifle shooters usually get 70 rounds or so between cleanings. That's the number of rounds fired in a match. I strongly suspect that qualifies as "a proper shooting comp". Benchrest is the only "comp" where the shooters get intense about cleaning.

I usually detail clean every 100 rounds, wet patch after range sessions. But once opening day of deer season rolls around, I don't clean the bore after my last zero. (unless me and the rifle get soaked from rain) That means I'll go three months or so without cleaning.

Art and I tend to be more practical riflemen. I could care less if a rifle can shoot in 1.5 MOA, question is, can I shoot it into a decent group from field positions? The bench is great for zero, worthless for practical shooting. Unless you have a bench in your deerstand, that is...

[Al Thompson]

Oh yeah, FWI, Eley (THE .22 ammo maker) never cleans their Anschutz rifles that they use to test ammo. :)

[Art Eatman]

:D sas, I started handloading in 1950.

I have two "pet" rifles. I bought them new in 1970. The Weatherby '06 has some 4,000 rounds through it. The last time I sat down at my benchrest with it to really test some fresh reloads, I got one three-shot group of 1/2" at 100 yards. Since new, and after I tweaked the bedding of the forearm, that rifle has invariably stayed inside of one MOA for five-shot groups. It will shoot one MOA at 500 yards, also.

That same day, I tried out the Sako .243 (maybe 1,000 or so rounds through it) and had a three-shot group I could totally cover with a dime. That rifle rarely groups larger than 3/4 MOA for five or more shots.

Look: .22 or '06, I keep my rifles clean. I'm just not a fanatic about it, nor do I worry unduly. I do have a wee tad of experience with this stuff. :)

Art

[Soap]

Since I'm 21, and I've only been shooting for 16 years, my policy is to shut up when Art speaks about rifles or when Dave speaks about shotguns. Well okay Dave...maybe I don't agree with you on the China issue but I dang sure listen when you're giving shotgunning advice! ;)

I think the most of .22 bores that I've seen ruined were due to over caring for them. The owners were obsessive about cleaning, even if they fired one round, so they pretty much ruined the bore through cleaning.

Also, things normally don't rust without water. So unless your bore is wet through precipitation or humidity, I wouldn't bother cleaning a .22 after every session. Modern powders and primers are non-corrosive so that alone is not enough to eat away a bore.

Looking down the bore of my Kimber Hunter @ 1000 rounds since the last detailed cleaning, the only things in the bore is a little bit of unburnt powder, no rust, no pitting.

UPDATE: I just ran a boresnake through it twice to knock out that unburnt powder. The bore is completely mirror bright.

[sasnofear]

ok a lot of replys here so first of all i'll clear up any misunderstandings:

1/ Al Tompson- seems to misunderstand, i am not saying to clean the barrel after every single shot on the .308, just after every session where ever you got that idea from i dont know! and that can range from one shot to 100shots!

Al and Art "three months without cleaning"? I really dont understand that! 'pratical rifleman' or 'cowboy'? Well im not big into .22Lr so I'll tell you what I'll do. This thursday im going to the comber rifleclub for some .22lr shooting and am going to ask Gary Duff (he shot for ireland in the olympics) how often a .22 barrel should be cleaned. now if he says after every session like what the Anschuetz manuel says then that will be closure on the matter, if he says what you guys are saying I'll swallow my pride and apolagise to you's ok

Adam

[Ledbetter]

The place to go for .22 info on the net is

www.rimfirecentral.com

The concensus there is clean sparingly. Some use no brushes and, yes, they turn the Boresnake inside out and remove the brushes put there by the factory.

A fine cleaner san be made from a bit of weed whacker line. Oil barrel. Cut length of line three feet long. Heat one end until it melts into a blob. While still soft, pull through bore; or, just form the blob into a .20" ball. Put a point on the other end.

With this, you can spear a patch, wet it (or not) and pull it through the bore. Wipe line clean after every pass to get rid of grit.

[twoblink]

Mine's got about 30,000 - 40,000 rounds through it. When I take "the women" out shooting, the 10/22 is the most worked.. I average about 5K a session... I clean it, and the barrel still looks brand new..

So... given that, I expect I'll think about a new barrel somewhere around 500,000 rounds...

[Art Eatman]

sas, no apology would be needed. Everybody's gotta go with what's needed for their gear, their ammo, their climate. Ya gotta go with what works for you.

What has always worked for me is to (at a minimum) run an oily patch through the bore, and all over the metal parts of any of my guns, if I shoot even one time and then plan on putting the gun away for any length of time. Call it insurance. But a "working" gun that's going to be used again within a day or three? In my dry climate it's not worth the effort. Even so, I'll check the bore from time to time, and maybeso run a patch through on general principles.

I have found that the first shot from a well-cleaned bore will sometimes not group with the next umpteen rounds. So, for my hunting rifles, I've always fired a fouling shot before setting out. There have been numerous times in many deer seasons where I wouldn't do anything to my rifle for a few weeks, after that fouling shot. All I can say is that if that same rifle is still shooting 1/2 MOA to one MOA, I haven't hurt it.

:), Art

[sasnofear]

fair enough art, enuff said. it works for you and thats fine. i've always been taught to clean any gun anytime its fired (probally due to father being a soldier) so I'll agree to disagree with you on this one, but as far as i can see you can shoot .5MOA so you routein obviously works for you. though i still think an oily ray through barrel should be done, but as i said b4 if it works 4 you then do it, frank sanata style :)

regards

adam

[Matt Sutton]

I've heard several good reports about the patch worm.

http://20-20.8m.com/products.html#patchworm

It looks like a fancy variation on the trimmer line idea. It certainly has little potential to cause any wear to a rimfire bore. The price is definitely right. Anyone on THR have experience with this specific unit?