Glueing a scope base


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444
February 17, 2003, 10:16 PM
Once upon a time I spent a pretty decent amount of money sending an old Ruger 10/22 to a gunsmith and having all the bells and whistles intalled including a barrel threaded into the action. However I had made a mistake in doing this with a old, used action. After getting it back I tried a couple different scope mounts. After mounting and dismounting a couple scope mounts 2-3 out of the four scope base screws scripped out the soft aluminum receiver. I got the idea to use Accuglass to glue the scope base to the receiver (in adition to the remaining screw or screws). It has worked fine, no problems.

I recently bought a Sten submachine gun. The sights are terrible and the gun hits no where near the point of aim. I would like to install a Weaver rail to the Sten gun to permit the mounting of a red dot sight. However I resist the urge to drill holes into the receiver tube. I was thinking of trying to glue a rail onto the gun using accuglass. What do you think ?

For me, shooting is all about accuracy. I get no thrill at all from just the act of firing a gun, just making noise doesn't pull my chain; I want to hit what I want to hit. Now don't get me wrong, I am under no illusion of shooting tight groups on paper with an open bolt submachine gun. But I would like to shoot in the local machine gun matches which of course require not only hitting targets but also having sights that are quick and easy to pick up. This could all be acheived with a more modern and better made gun, but something like an M16 or an HK MP5 is way out of my price range. The Sten took about 80 hours of overtime for me to afford.

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dfariswheel
February 17, 2003, 11:15 PM
You've got nothing to loose by trying. it shouldn't harm the gun, and other than damaging the sight if it falls off and hits the ground, it shouldn't hurt the sight and mount.

I'd get as long a rail as possible to give the most bonding area. Even if you don't need the extra length, it will increase the holding power.

Roughen the bottom of the mount to give the epoxy a good "bite" on it, and make sure to do a really GOOD job of degreasing everything.

I'd also buy the best epoxy possible, probably from Brownell's.
Get a good mix on it, and put everything in the oven at about 175 degrees to give a good cure.

All it can do is fall off from vibration, but it also may well stay stuck.

4 eyed six shooter
February 18, 2003, 12:51 AM
If the screws that your scope base are mounted with are 6-48 screws, Brownells (www. brownells.com) makes a oversize screw that is .146"-48. It is just slightly larger in diameter than the 6-48. You will need the special tap that they sell to fit the larger screws. These screws work very well to cure oversized 6-48 screw holes. Best wishes, John K :D

DJJ
February 18, 2003, 12:42 PM
I would even be reluctant to glue onto a STEN. As crude as they were, they're still a piece of history, etc. Have you considered some kind of band clamp? Even hose clamps would work, but you could probably come up with something more refined. This assumes the tube wall is thick enough to resist collapsing.

Would it be possible to fill and re-drill the aperture?

444
February 18, 2003, 01:30 PM
"As crude as they were, they're still a piece of history"

I appreciate the thought, but this isn't piece of history. It is a Taylor Tube gun. In other words, back when it was still legal to do so, a company called Taylor assembled my gun from parts onto a receiver tube they manufactured. This is not a curio and relic gun.

I have thought of a number of ways to do this, but I am trying to not be invasive. I would like to do as little permenent damage to the gun that I can. Even though it is not an original STEN, the receiver tube is the part of the gun that is registered with BATF as an NFA weapon; I paid a $200 transfer tax on that tube and I don't want to damage it in anyway. I can replace any part of the gun with no hassle except the tube.

Jim K
February 21, 2003, 10:15 PM
Well, the STEN tube (original or not) just isn't thick enough to allow screws to hold. The rings should be, but using them would require removing the original sights. The glue might work OK, but I think I might consider the clamps if you can fix them so they don't get in the way of the bolt handle. A SMG receiver takes more pounding and vibrates a lot more than that Ruger did, since the receiver stops the bolt and takes a hit doing it. (One reason silencers don't work well on SMGs like the STEN is that the bolt clatter is almost as loud as firing the gun; it is just usually masked by the noise of the shot.)

Actually the STEN is normally pretty accurate (within its limitations) and I have shot 2-3" groups at 25 semi-auto with the original sights. It sounds to me like the people who built the gun got the tube and the front ring crooked so the barrel isn't lined up with the sights. If so, you might find that a scope can't be lined up either, though a laser pointer sight might work.

Have you tried finding someone who can check that gun out?

Jim

444
February 21, 2003, 10:26 PM
"It sounds to me like the people who built the gun got the tube and the front ring crooked so the barrel isn't lined up with the sights. "

I think that is pretty much a given. No, I haven't had anyone look at it, I am not sure who I would go to for something like this. Maybe I should just go to one of the local machine gun matches and see what those guys say. One of the guys that is active in those shoots makes a Sten mount that screws into the dust cover; I am not sure of the correct terminology, but the part that has the mag well on it that can be turned to cover the bolt. This very well might be the way to go because I am sure I could buy a spare one of those (whatever it is called) in case I don't like it and the holes drilled throught the tube would be covered up by the new "dust cover". I know he actually uses his Sten in these matches with a red dot sight mounted in this fashion and has very good luck with it. I belive however that he drills through this "dust cover" right on through the receiver tube and screws all three parts together. As this gun sits now, it shoots like four feet to the left using the issue sights. I am not sure if this is a fuction of the barrel being in the gun crooked or the fact that the front sight dovetail is way off to the right side of the tube. Either way, I was hoping I could solve the problem by mounting an optical sight that is adjustable.

I realize that just because this works on a .22 rifle, doesn't mean that it will work on a submachine gun. That is why I wondered what anyone else thought. I know that when bedding a stock, you can glue stuff together and it is almost impossible to get them apart again. I also thought that maybe, if the bedding compound failed, I could somehow remove the remaining compound from the receiver and not have lost anything in the process.

pahrumpcaveman
February 23, 2003, 02:01 AM
" Acraglas is as strong an adhesive can be made and still be used by the average ,non-technically trained individual or semi-professional technician with readily available mixing,weighing equipment. " Quote from Gunsmith Kinks II . I think Acraglass will hold it just fine .

Clark
February 24, 2003, 07:22 PM
I got a 10/22 that was marked $70 in a pawn shop for $35 by saying, "Look at this POS, it has a broken sight, the scope mount screws holes are stripped out, the magazine is missing, and the someone tried to refinish the stock. I'll give you $35 for it."

I used the holes to locate the mount for epoxying.

That has been a great gun all these years.

My best gun, VZ24 in .257 Roberts Ackley Improved has the Weaver mounts "glued and screwed" [epoxy again].

Watchman
March 1, 2003, 05:16 PM
444,

Why dont you do what the Europeans do to many of their guns ?

TIG weld the bases on there. I did it with my .50 BMG and the mount will be there forever.

Then take a dremel tool and "smooth " them out. With the thin wall of the tubing its really better than using epoxy or glue. You can just paint right over them and never worry about them again.

As for being "invasive" I can understand that. If you can tig weld it properly, you can take a die grinder with a slitting disk and cut the base any time off if need be. What few blemishes you'll make you can just fill with weld and polish down to the original. When painted or blued you;ll never know it happened.

Just a thought...

yankytrash
March 7, 2003, 01:15 AM
Sorry to dig this one up from the dead, but I've even arc welded a scope base to the side of a stamped-receiver AK.

I just made sure to use 1/16" general purpose rods, and kept the heat to the low end of the range. With my short leads, I believe it was about 50 amps or so, maybe less.

Tig would definitely be better, if you can get your hands on one or know a welder you trust to do the job.

444
March 7, 2003, 01:35 AM
I wouldn't know who to get to weld something like this. I know I couldn't watch. The only welding I ever did was in high school and I didn't know what I was doing. I frequently blew holes in the metal. No way I would attempt something like this.
The thing that I liked about the glue idea was that if it didn't work out, no permenent damage would be done to the receiver tube. I don't know if I will ever do anything with this project. Maybe someday I will get hot on the idea and let everyone know how it worked out.

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