Slimmest pistol design?


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wasrjoe
August 9, 2004, 11:13 PM
I am sure this has been covered before - in fact I remember reading about this when I lerked long ago - but I could not find it in search. Perhaps I used incorrect criteria, I don't know.

So - what's the slimmest pistol design out there >=.380? I would prefer something >=9mm, but I figure .380 isn't anything to sneeze at either.

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SDC
August 9, 2004, 11:21 PM
You should take a close look at the H&K P7; off-hand, I can't think of any other pistol (9mm OR .380) that's as slim as the single-stack P7s.

at-home-daddy
August 9, 2004, 11:23 PM
I'm not familiar with the P7, but I believe the Kel-Tec P3AT (.380) is the slimmest .380 on the market...around 3/4".

Okiecruffler
August 9, 2004, 11:27 PM
I had an American Arms Escort for awhile that was probably only about an inch wide. Not a half bad pistol really.

Greg Bell
August 9, 2004, 11:30 PM
In 9mm probably the Kahr. The P7 is uber-thin tough (1.1 at its widest). I don't fool with junk so I can't say about Hi-points, Kel-tecs, Glocks, Lorcin, etc.

MacPelto
August 9, 2004, 11:37 PM
Kahrs are thin, plastic Kahrs are real thin.

P95Carry
August 9, 2004, 11:40 PM
The Rohrbaugh R9 ... (9mm) .. is about at its thickest at bottom of grips ... fractionally over 0.90 inch. It's slim!:)

Coltdriver
August 9, 2004, 11:50 PM
And if you can find one the Colt Pocket Nine is between the Kahr and the Rorbaugh in slimness.

Rival
August 10, 2004, 12:28 AM
This slimmest pistol design that I know of is Russian PSM, highly concealable weapon specifically designed for covered ops
http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo03pi/bo03pi19/psm01.jpg
It is only 18mm thick - that's 0.7 of an inch. It uses special 5,45x18mm ammunition with steel core, it goes through Class II armor and can engage targets behind car doors effectively... It proved to be very deadly little pistol back in Russia as it is often weapon of choice for people who kill for living.
http://www.arms.ru/Guns/psm0001.jpg
Needless to say you can't obtain this handgun outside of Russia, same goes for the ammo.
It has very interesting safety lever designed to be turned off at the same time when you are cocking the hammer - look at how the safety lever is positioned...

gvass
August 10, 2004, 05:04 AM
Slimmest real (bigger than .380 ACP) gun (the PSM not qualify) is probably the Detonics Pocket9 in 9 mm Luger

LAK
August 10, 2004, 07:06 AM
Browning's BDM (9x19mm) is a pretty flat piece, and the Star BM and BKM is pretty trim as well for a 9.

N.M. Edmands
August 10, 2004, 08:17 AM
S.T.I. LS Series, .765" across steel. 1911 ! 9mm or 40 S+W.

TRDBucket
August 10, 2004, 12:04 PM
I'd vote for the LS9 from STI.

MJRW
August 10, 2004, 12:32 PM
Kel-tec lists their P11 as 1" wide.
Kahr lists all their 9mms as 0.9" slide width.
Rohrbaugh lists their slide width as 0.812" wide.
H&K lists the P7M8 as 1.14" wide.

"I don't fool with junk so I can't say about Hi-points, Kel-tecs, Glocks, Lorcin, etc."

Nor do you fool with anything resembling a reasonable opinion.

Greg Bell
August 10, 2004, 01:12 PM
MJRW,

I keed, I keed!
:D

MJRW
August 10, 2004, 02:02 PM
I re-read what I said. It didn't come off anywhere near my intent. It was an attempt at sarcastic jest but I failed miserably.

Tom Servo
August 10, 2004, 02:11 PM
I second the Kahrs. My MK9 pretty much disappears in the waistband. I also carry a Sig P239, which is extremely thin and shoots as well as any service pistol.

JNewell
August 10, 2004, 02:35 PM
I've never gone at 'em with a ruler, but I think you might find that the thinnest pocket pistols are (were) the Colt M1903 (.32 ACP) and M1908 (.380 ACP). These are very thin, slick pistols. They are a little large by today's standards, but extremely thin. Excellent shooters, btw.

Johnny Guest
August 10, 2004, 04:34 PM
JNewell - - Yep, design is a century old and they are still very slick little pistols. Not only sleek 'n slim, but characterized by a total lack of projections. Only problem is the cotton-pickin' WEIGHT!

I can't help but fantasize about a 1908 .380, modernized a bit. Polymer frame, and losing about 3/4 of an inch from slide length should bring weight down to about 16 oz. Add some more-visible-but-still-low sights, and this would be an excellent pocket gun, even today. Heck, while we're changing things around - - Modern technology should enable us to go with a locked breech 9x19mm version, with the same exterior dimensions. :p

Best,
Johnny

Michael Zeleny
August 10, 2004, 04:43 PM
Needless to say you can't obtain [the PSM] outside of Russia, same goes for the ammo.To the contrary, see page 41 of the current Lagardere Arms (http://www.lagardere.ch/) Catalogue (http://www.lagardere.ch/catalogue/catalogue.pdf). A USGI stationed abroad can readily import one of these "civilian" gems. However, the last PSM that I saw on the American market was priced at $4,000. To be sure, all 5.45x18mm pistol ammunition is armor-piercing, and therefore banned in the U.S.

Michael Zeleny
August 10, 2004, 04:52 PM
H&K lists the P7M8 as 1.14" wide. The SIG P210 frame measures out to 25mm, under 1" wide. The grip plates measure 30.5mm at their widest point.

Dr.Rob
August 10, 2004, 05:41 PM
I was going to suggest the 1903 Colt 380, but the Colt Pocket Nine was pretty skinny too.

Ever see a Star 9mm with sheetmetal grips? that would be skinny.

at-home-daddy
August 10, 2004, 05:53 PM
Earlier I wrote:
"I'm not familiar with the P7, but I believe the Kel-Tec P3AT (.380) is the slimmest .380 on the market...around 3/4".
------------
...but since I was going on memory, I thought I'd best doublecheck and, sure enough, according to the Kel-Tec site, the width of the P3AT .380 is .77".

P95Carry
August 10, 2004, 06:17 PM
Modern technology should enable us to go with a locked breech 9x19mm version, with the same exterior dimensions. Johnny Guest ..... the R9 weighs in at 12.8 ounces with mag out ... it is slim to the extreme possible and yet - offers 6+1 in 9x19. It is locked breech, and just a tad smaller than PM9.

Mine has become a more and more constant pocket companion .. and even when loaded is no great burden in the pocket.... and, just checked weight ''fully stoked'' ... almost exactly 17 ounces all in. Not bad!

themic
August 10, 2004, 08:03 PM
RAP 401 is right at or about 1" wide.
I think the Kel-Tec P3AT and P11 are the thinnest feeling in my hands
But I've never held a Kahr PM9

HD
August 10, 2004, 10:47 PM
star made a 380 that was even slimnmer than the mini llama 380... called the "super M" ? ... this was 30 years ago at least...:confused:

Soap
August 11, 2004, 12:08 AM
What about the Colt 1903/1908?

LAK
August 11, 2004, 08:04 AM
Oh yes; how could I have forgotten the Colt M1903 and M1908. A 1908 is very high on my shopping list - one of the nicest little auto pistols ever made.

farscott
August 11, 2004, 10:48 AM
I would go with the STI LS9 and LS40. The LS is 0.765" across the slide and 1.06" across the grips, and it is available in 9x19 and .40 S&W.

Rinspeed
August 11, 2004, 01:51 PM
I agree the Colt 1903 and 1908s are very thin. Colt should bring them back with a little stronger safety.

Rinspeed

JNewell
August 11, 2004, 02:28 PM
What about the Colt 1903/1908?

See posts above. The only real downside is the turn-of-the-last-century (as in 19th century) sights.

middy
August 11, 2004, 05:14 PM
The old 1911 with slim grips is pretty dang svelte. Easier to conceal than a Glock, IMHO.

A little heavy, though...

Brian Williams
August 11, 2004, 08:01 PM
How about a Remington mod 51

Soap
August 11, 2004, 11:31 PM
JNewell- My bad I scrolled through too fast :o

JNewell
August 12, 2004, 02:21 PM
<heh> If that's your worst offense this week, you're way ahead of me! :D

Onmilo
August 12, 2004, 02:25 PM
The Russian PSM is the slimmest pistol going.
The Kel-Tecs are real, real close to it and in more effective calibers.

sadp40
August 13, 2004, 11:24 PM
walther pp aint no slouch either. very slim i have one in 7.65mm and i can put it anywhere i want.

Johnny Guest
August 15, 2004, 01:53 PM
Glad you mentioned that one, Brian Williams.

The M51 is another really sweet design that cries out to be modernized and reintroduced. Truly streamlined, and with one of the most comfortable handle-to-barrel angles ever. I really don't see the reason for the overcomplicated lockup system in a .380 (or especially .32) ACP - - I believe it could be produced with either an alloy or polymer frame in a straight blowback in .380, or with a locked breech in 9x19mm. Nifty!

Best,
Johnny

Gunmeister
August 15, 2004, 02:33 PM
The Rohrbaugh is a fraction under an inch 0.09 and a fraction over $900.00

P95Carry
August 15, 2004, 04:20 PM
The Rohrbaugh is a fraction under an inch 0.09 and a fraction over $900.00 Gunmeister .... actually a fraction over 0.9" but that is at base of grips, slightly tapering up towards slide where just under the 0.9".

Gunmeister
August 15, 2004, 05:37 PM
It's still a fraction over $900.00 no matter where the decimal falls. (LOL)

P95Carry
August 15, 2004, 05:46 PM
Can't argue you that one dude!! :p :D

XLMiguel
August 15, 2004, 10:14 PM
My Kahr is .75" across teh slide, and the rest of the pistol appears to be about the same width, i.e. it lies flat on the table, FWIW.

saltydog452
August 15, 2004, 11:23 PM
Coltdriver..PM on the way..

salty.

carebear
August 16, 2004, 03:15 AM
The old 1911 with slim grips is pretty dang svelte. Easier to conceal than a Glock, IMHO.

A little heavy, though...

- middy

Try those grips on a LW Commander. THEN you got somethin'. :D

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