Handgun selection, Kahr owner input


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Gurnard
August 11, 2004, 10:45 AM
Hey gang,
Forgive me if this has been done to death but I did do a search w/no luck.

Anyway, I travel a lot for work, sometimes into not-so-nice areas of some cities, so… I’m thinking about the CC permit. Limited handgun experience: Had a .357 20 years ago, shot a .45 once a year in the Navy (again, years ago), currently have a rarely fired, jam prone “el-cheapo” .380 auto which shall remain nameless so as not to offend other owners.

So, I want to upgrade and am/was considering the Kahr PM9/PM40. Not knowing where to start in picking a new handgun – I bought the Handgunner annual magazine, looked at photos, specs & prices – stopped at a few gun shops & looked through the glass, handled a couple (kind of awkward, not even knowing what questions to ask & nobody wants to look stupid), talked to an acquaintance who is a self proclaimed “expert”, went to a gun & knife show…Still no closer to a purchase.

I’m kinda waffling on the Kahr after handling it. I’m looking for small and concealable but plan to do quite a bit of shooting but this one was REALLY small. My “expert” dismissed this gun as something you wouldn’t want to shoot much but…he also said “No Glocks” with some vague (or maybe valid but over my head) problem with the safeties (?). Then again, he’s very much a “I’d rather push a Chevy than drive a Ford” type of guy. The local range has a nice selection of Glocks to rent (test drive?) but I haven’t, mainly because of the safety comment.

Whew! After all that BS I finally get to my questions –

Who here has shot the small Kahr a lot? Any pain afterwards? What about the slightly larger version?

Some of the other recommendations I’ve gotten but haven’t seen let alone touched or fired - .357/.38 revolver, Sig (no specifics, just Sig) and USP compact.

Given the above critera/experience – any other suggestions (big can of worms there, eh?) Oh, also <$1000.

Thanks in advance & once I buy I’ll be back for more brain-pickin’ on concealment.

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critter
August 11, 2004, 10:52 AM
I think you are on the right track by doing your homework first. Couple of observatons.

I own and carry a Kahr MK9 and shoot it a lot. Mine is 100% reliable-a necessity in a carry gun. Mine is also very accurate for the small gun-short sight radius type carry gun. It is pleasant enough to shoot-the polymer model is a little less so I would guess due to the lighter weight. It is a good choice though IMHO.

Your other observations are also valid. A good, small revolver in .38 or .357 would be good. I'd prefer a .357 because you can use 38's to practice and shoot a lot and .357's for familiarization and for serious social work. Some of the small Smith's, Taurus would be good but I have a Ruger SP101 that I favor. A little heavy (bad for carry-good for shooting) but it is a great little hideout gun with authority!

Both should be WELL under you $1K limit, more likely half that. And, yeah, be sure to return to ask your CCW questions. A lot of the good folks here will have tips to put you on the right track. The main one is you will have to do a lot of experimentation with carry methods, holsters and clothing to find something that works well for YOU.

Good luck in your search.

gbelleh
August 11, 2004, 11:11 AM
I like my PM9 a lot. The checkering can get rough on the hands after a couple hundred rounds. Everyone seems to tolerate recoil differently.

There's nothing wrong with Glocks (provided you are familiar with the safety features and are using a suitable holster). IMO, you should forget everything your friend said and go to a gun shop and rent/shoot as many guns as you can. With a $1,000 limit, you should be able to find a great gun for yourself. Don't worry about asking questions. You know the old proverb... "He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever."

Mikul
August 11, 2004, 01:10 PM
I don't own a Kahr, but a friend shoots his MK9 a lot (about 200 rounds per week). It's been very reliable. His only complaint is that the magazines are expensive (~$30) which is about average for any gun. He's just spoiled with Glock and 1911 magazines.

Glocks are very good guns. Some people have reservations because they have no external safeties and while technically classified as a double-action handun, the trigger pull is as light as most single-actions. This makes it a very unforgiving gun. Perhaps not the best choice for a first gun, but only you can make that decision. After all, external safeties and heavy double-action trigger pulls are no substitution for a brain.

The H&K USP is also an excellent gun. Be sure to handle one because they either fit your hand just fine, or they feel like a brick.

Sigs are also excellent guns. (I'd say that Sigs and H&Ks are the two best and I can't decide which is better). They are all double-action first shot and single-action on all followup shots. This doesn't bother a lot of people. It drives me nuts, so no matter how good the gun is, I won't buy one, but that's a personal thing. Try dry-firing several different models. The triggers are better on some than others. Their competition models are downright sweet.

.357 revolvers are good. Get a 3 or 4 inch barreled revolver instead of the cutesy snubnosed revolver that everyone has to have. The 3-inch revolver isn't that big, handles the recoil better, and gives you a decent sight radius. The .357 is a potent cartridge and unless you like getting beaten up, get the longer gun. IMHO, 6-rounds isn't enough. Most police only hit 1 out of 6 times, so until you're better trained than they are, expect one hit out of each cylinder and carry a reload or two and expect those reloads to be very slow compared to a semi-auto.

Calhoun
August 11, 2004, 01:28 PM
I've got a P9, and carry it almost every day. Never had any problems with it. Goes bang every time; which is the all time, #1, end all-be all requirement for a CCW. It is a light weight gun, and you can tell when you shoot it, but it's not unbearable. I hear that the K9 is better b/c it's alot heavier (actually heard that it's REAL heavy for the size pistol it is). Kind of a trade off. Very accurate. It can make a golf ball sized hole all day.

Kahrs can have problems for the first few hundred rounds, so be sure it is broken in before you bet your life on it. 300-400 rounds seems to do the trick. Maybe less. Test it with your carry ammo too.

Over all, the only complaint I have ever had is what gbelleh said, the checkering can tear up your hand a little. The slide stop too, but you get used to it quick.

Hope this helps,

Calhoun

Gurnard
August 11, 2004, 02:00 PM
Hey, thanks for the input!

I was kinda thinking he might be wrong on the Glocks. My understanding is that many police officers carry them…surely they wouldn’t carry junk.

Anyway, you guys brought up a couple more questions.
1. Could someone define good or bad triggers? I’ve seen this mentioned many times on this board, even people performing modifications to get it "right" but…??? Are we talking heavy vs. light? In a high-stress situation would you realistically notice a hard pull?
2. Carry ammo vs. target ammo – Why? Price? Wear & tear?
3. Calhoun - What type of problems are we talking about here? Jams or failures? I'm seeing several mentions on this board about failed parts (A thread on the XD40 comes to mind) I need to steer well clear of this since I've never disassembled a gun.

Also, I only mentioned the $1k limit because my “expert” is pushing Kimber. Even if it’s the best there is - it’s simply more than I’m willing to pay.

Thanks again.

JNewell
August 11, 2004, 02:25 PM
I have no experience with the Kahr polypistols but lots with an MK9, and also with steel and alloy S&W J-frames, and some with Glocks. Almost all the Glocks are going to feel bigger because of the double-stack mags that most use. If you plan to shoot a lot, the PM9 may start to feel like it's hammering you. Even all steel subcompact handguns are not necessarily something you want to spend all day firing, but the lightweight versions (poly or alloy) are definitely less comfortable to fire in quantity. However, for carry, less is more.

One thing you might think about, and this might still come in under your budget, is to buy an all-steel gun for practice and an identical or nearly identical lightweight for carry. If you buy clean but used J-frames, this should be possible and still leave you with hundreds in change for ammo, training and holsters. Whoops, make that holster :) because if you buy "right" you may be able to use the same mags/speedloaders, holster, etc. for both, which is good in more ways than one. A poly and steel Kahr pair probably won't make that budget cut...

For the purposes you're talking about, I wouldn't get too torqued up on triggers. Remember how adrenaline works...

Carry ammo vs. practice -- yes, cost, but you should run at least several hundred rounds of your intended carry ammo through a pistol to assure yourself about reliable feeding, ignition, extraction, etc. This is less of a factor with a revolver, which tends to eat pretty much whatever it's served as long as the springs haven't been d!cked with so it won't bust the caps.

dfariswheel
August 11, 2004, 02:36 PM
It's starting to look like the Kahr's are this generations "Gold Standard" in concealed defense pistols.

These guns are reliable, accurate, HIGH-quality, and durable.

The Kahr trigger action is becoming quite famous. In "feel" the Kahr trigger feels like a well-tuned S&W revolver trigger.
It isn't a "hard" feel, nor gritty. It has a DA revolver-like smooth pull that just somehow feels "right".

Unlike many autos, the Kahr is quite safe, due to the revolver-like, longer trigger pull.
I usually tell people to shoot the Kahr like it's a good DA revolver.

The Kahr polymer pistols had somewhat more than the normal Kahr development problems, but it seems the "bugs" have been ironed out.

The Kahr K9 or K40 are about the same size as a Walther PPK/s, although heavier.
That weight is an advantage in shooting the gun, and a slight disadvantage in carrying.
The MK series Kahr's can be comfortably carried in a pocket WITH A POCKET HOLSTER, the steel K series is just too heavy for pocket carry.

If you intend to wear some type of holster, I recommend the K series, for the feel of the slightly larger grip.
The K series grip, also draws raves from owners, who comment on the comfort and secure grip.

Many "micro" gun owners who take their Glocks or other micro pistols to shooting schools complain that after a day on the range their hand is very tired.
K series owners say there is no fatigue at all.

As above, the Kahr needs a 200 round break-in period, and in fact, the factory mandates it.
Within that 200 rounds a new Kahr MAY experience jams of one type or another. Most don't, but it's just common sense to give the gun the break-in and verify the reliability of the gun/ammo combination.

I recommend shooting cheap practice ammo for most of the break-in period, then shoot enough defense ammo to verify reliability.
If the chosen ammo gives problems, try another brand/type.
A broken-in Kahr with ammo it "likes" is about the most reliable auto ever made.
I currently have around 6000 rounds through my K9, and the failure rate is 0%. Not ONE failure.

Unlike many "micro" autos, the Kahr was specifically designed to handle ANY commercially available ammo, including +P+ 9mm.

If you give a Kahr the proper break-in, carefully select a brand/type of ammo that is reliable and accurate, there is no BETTER concealed defense gun on the market.

Unlike many autos on the market, the Kahr needs no custom work. The rubber grips on the K series is perfect, the sights are excellent, and the Kahr trigger action needs no tuning.
Any custom work is usually for personal cosmetic reasons.

nhhillbilly
August 11, 2004, 02:45 PM
My son for his graduation from high school wanted a PM 9 He was raised right.

We have shot it quite a lot. I find the gun a bit small and light. Well made, accurate and reliable. I would have purchased the next size up. As Clint Smith say's "When carrying no gun is small enough. When you need one no gun is large enough. "

Training or practice ammo is normally what you can purchase inexpensively. Mostly Winchester White Box 9mm 100 rounds for $10.00 or $11.00.

Suggestions that before you purchase any firearm go and take an NRA basic pistol course. These are normally under $100.00. Most instructors I know bring an assortment of handguns to give students options to test. The training is basic but very good. It is both classroom and range. Course is about 10 -12 hours.

All the major brands, Sig, Glock, Beretta, Colt, Springfield, Smith and Wesson..... make good guns.

A semi -Auto conceals a bit better then a revolver, as they are a bit thinner. A revolver has a simpler manual of arms. Both systems are good. Have carried both on duty and off duty and never felt under armed with either.

Min. cartidge for self-defense for me is 9MM or .38 Special.

Sawdust
August 11, 2004, 03:59 PM
There is a forum solely dedicated to the Kahr brand over at www.glocktalk.com where you will find answers to all of your questions regarding Kahrs.

HTH,

Sawdust

obiwan1
August 11, 2004, 04:49 PM
I bought my wife a K40 a couple of years ago. GREAT gun. Too heavy for pocket carry, but for purse or holster carry it's perfect. I have no experience with the MK series but I love the "K". I got a chance to heft a T40 last weekend. Superb grip. If I was buying something for me, the "T" would be it.

By the way, my current pocket carry gun is a KelTec P11 in one of a couple of pocket holsters that I own.:D

Jim PHL
August 11, 2004, 05:22 PM
I have a K40 stainless. One of the keys to shooting the Kahr is learning to "stroke" the trigger through it's complete pull. When shooting a Glock or revolver many people take up the slack in the trigger to a point where it is just ready to break, hold there, and then squeeze past that point to release the striker or hammer. The Kahr really does have a smooth, light pull that is consistent through the entire motion. I've found it best to learn to smoothly stroke the trigger through its full length of pull rather than try to stage it. I would guess that if you ever need to fire it in self-defense, this is how you'd fire it anyway (probably a lot faster than you would on the range!). It is similar in length and height to a mini-Glock or a j-frame revolver. It's slimmer than both for easier carry, handles the .40 S+W very well and is stone reliable. This is an excellent choice for a concealed carry gun.

(The fact that mine is listed for sale in the BUY, SELL, TRADE: HANDGUNS section has nothing to do with this review!)

Calhoun
August 11, 2004, 05:37 PM
Gurnard-

The problems I wrote of in the first few hundred rounds are normal break in things. No mater what gun you buy, you will probably have a short break in time. Usually 200-400 rounds. Even if you go and spend $1000 on a Kimber you will probably have to break it in. Don't worry if you get a few jams, failure to feed, failure to eject, etc. during this period, it's normal. The way that the Kahr internals are laid out are a little cramped. They just need a little time to get into their groove. Anyway, it will probably take you a few hundred rounds to get used to your new gun anyway, so it's an even trade.

You were right on with the ammo. Less expensive ammo for practice, full power stuff for carry. Saves wear and tear on the gun and your wallet. The more you shoot, the better you are. The better you are, the better you feel (so eat your beans at every meal!).

Peace out,
Calhoun

Climb14er
August 11, 2004, 05:47 PM
<The Kahr trigger action is becoming quite famous. In "feel" the Kahr trigger feels like a well-tuned S&W revolver trigger.
It isn't a "hard" feel, nor gritty. It has a DA revolver-like smooth pull that just somehow feels "right".>

I have an early 1970's S & W Model 60 snub with a fantastic trigger/action job and the Kahr PM9 Diamond Kote I have is every bit as smooth after a few hundred rounds.

The MK9 is a little heavier and the same size as the PM9. If you want light and compact, get the PM9.

Personally, I could handle the PM9 easily but found the .40 caliber version very harsh. The PM9 is very smooth, reliable and accurate.

cratz2
August 12, 2004, 05:21 PM
I like Kahrs. I've probably shot 8 of them total. I owned a P9 Covert (PM9 frame with a .5" longer slide and barrel) that I put about 900 rounds through and never had a single problem. Recoil wasn's super pleasant, but I wouldn't call it fierce either... For someone used to putting 200 rounds through a full size gun, 100 rounds should be no problem and I mostly shot 124 Gr +P Gold Dots which aren't exactly slouches... The 7 or so rounds of 127 +P+ Ranger Ts I put through there were definately a bit peppier.

On the gun itself, I find them to be a very good, solid design. Love how trim they are and how light the poly guns are. Triggers range from good to very, very good and even though they don't offer a true second strike DAO feature, I like that the pull is consistant from the first pull on.

I'm currently very happy with my CZ PCR as a carry gun but if I wanted something smaller and esp if I wanted something trimmer, the Kahr TP9 would be the very first gun on my list.

twowheel
August 12, 2004, 07:09 PM
For what it's worth, I have Glock 23, S&W 340 scandium .357 and Kahr PM40. I like them all. I carry the S&W most of the time. Very light and easily put in pocket holster. I carry the Kahr at times, in a IWB holster. Trigger is quite good. IMHO a .357 will penetrate too much and go too far, so I generally carry the S&W with .38 spcl +P. The .40 makes a bigger hole and does not go through engine blocks! The Glock 23 is also .40. Rugged and dependable as a rock. Clunky, boxy to carry unless wearing large outer garment. For summer, the S&W or Kahr go with me.

Gurnard
August 12, 2004, 08:02 PM
Hello again,
I’d like to bounce something else off you guys…

I know that many of you have several handguns from different manufacturers. Does switching between brands/models give you any trouble?

I ask because I’m thinking…Why not two guns? One small for CCW, one large to shoot a lot - One nicer/new one less expensive/used.

Is shooting one much more often and then carrying another a bad idea?

Cratz2: Thanks for the info, but I'm afraid you lost me on the ammo specs...I'm not new to guns (hunted with a shotgun since I was a kid) but have very limited handgun experience - I've got some homework to do before "124gr +P gold dots" means anything to me. Not being a smart-ass or unappreciative, I just didn't understand it. I understand 124gr is a measure of weight...powder measure or projectile weight? The +P and +P+ is greek to me.

Thanks in advance.

dfariswheel
August 12, 2004, 08:43 PM
There's really no problem with owning and shooting many guns, AS LONG as you don't get "confused" about which one you're reaching for when things serious.

Where many people do get into problems is in failing to practice, or constantly switching carry guns or holsters.

In these cases, if you've been carrying a certain gun or carrying it in a certain holster, then make a change, you might fumble under stress.

Classic cases are a man used to carrying an auto with a manual safety switching to a double action auto. Under stress he was trying to release a safety that wasn't there, instead of just pulling the trigger.
Another case was a police officer used to carrying his gun in a cross-draw holster, finding himself clawing for a gun that was now in a strong-side inside the pants holster.

The answer is to practice often with the carry gun and holster you plan to use. If you make a carry gun or holster switch, PRACTICE with it until you "remember" just what you've got, and where it is.

On ammo, most 9mm defense ammo has either 115 or 124 grain bullets.

"Gold Dot" is a brand name used by Speer.
Other brand names of good defense ammo are Federals "Hydra-Shok", Remington's "Golden Saber", and Winchester's "Silver Tips".

+P and +P+ refer to ammunition loaded to extra- higher velocities.
This refers to Plus Power, or Plus Power Plus. +P ammo is commonly available in several different calibers of pistol ammo. +P+ is usually sold to the police, since this ammo can be unsafe in pistols not made to handle it, or in such bad condition it might not be safe.

You can buy the +P+ type ammo from several companies, but it's up to you to insure your gun is OK with it.
The Kahr pistols are, being specifically designed to handle any commercially available ammo.

Gurnard
August 12, 2004, 11:51 PM
Damn,
You sure are a helpful bunch!

Learnin' a lot. Thanks to everyone.

only1asterisk
August 13, 2004, 12:19 AM
I don't shoot the smallest Kahrs as my hands are just simply too big to do so with any comfort at all. I have carried a K40 concealed and it would be close to tops on my list it I wanted to return to everyday carry. It is about as small as I go. I would recommend the K-series or better, the T-series Kahrs in 9mm as a decent choice for a carry gun that one could shoot on a regular basis.



David

cratz2
August 13, 2004, 01:54 AM
To the new question, I grew up with 1911s and most of my shooting career has been with them. And more recently with Berettas, CZs, Glocks and SIGs. I really don't have a problem going from one to the other, but I can see how someone the bulk of whose experience was with DA/SA pistols could have a concern transitioning to a cocked and locked 1911. But as far as gowing from a SIG to a Glock to a Kahr... I don't think most folks should have much of a problem. My main problem, after having shot 1911s so long, is the Glock ALWAYS shoots high for me from a draw. SIGs and Kahrs are fine in that respect. And keep in mind, from 7 feet to 7 yards where most actual self defense shootings are most likely to occur, the difference in point of impact is tiny.

mini14jac
August 13, 2004, 08:26 AM
All of my daughters like shooting the PM9.
There is a little muzzle rise, but none have complained about the recoil, or any pain.
(Shooting my wife's Airweight .38 is a different matter. The girls find it painful and uncomfortable to shoot, and if they've shot it once, they won't shoot it agian.)

I just crossed the 1000rd mark with my PM9. No problems at all.
I mainly shoot the 100rd/$10 box from Walmart for practice.
For carry, the Winchester jhp from Walmart works quite well, but I mainly carry Gold Dot 125gr +P.
The little Kahr seems to love that round.

For such a small gun, it is surprisingly accurate, and easy to shoot.
I agree with what others have said about the trigger.
Kahr guns have smoother, lighter triggers than any other stock auto that I have tried.

I had a MK9 that I loved, but it was just too heavy for me to carry.
If you are like the majority of CCW holders, if a gun is too heavy to carry comfortably in your pocket, it will spend most of the time in the car, or at home.

The PM9 rides quite well in a $10 pocket holster from Uncle Mike's.

As for another gun, that is a great idea.
I like a Glock for a home defense gun, and a Kahr or Keltec .380 for carry.
That way, the operation of each is the same.
Chamber a round, point, pull the trigger.

(Oh, and for a beginning shooter, I would stay away from the PM40, or try one first. From what I've read, the recoil is significantly more than the PM9.
The .40 is quite a bit more "snappy" than a 9mm.)

Skirmisher
August 13, 2004, 09:59 AM
My husband and I both carry Kahr P9's and our son carries a Kahr MK9. Our grandson has a Kahr K9 and is working on a carry permit. We all love our Kahrs because of the slim design for ease in carrying and the accuracy and reliablity.:D

gbelleh
August 13, 2004, 10:26 AM
To answer your question about switching between many guns...

I carry several different guns depending on clothing, weather, etc. But, they all function the same way...just point and pull the trigger. That allows me to carry any DAO semi-auto or any revolver, also any DA/SA auto in DA mode with safety off. So, I can carry a Kahr, Glock, HK USP, revolver, PPK, Bersa, Makarov, Mauser HSc, P-11, P-32, without any problem. Carrying a 1911 or HKP7 would require special attention.

NMshooter
August 13, 2004, 02:48 PM
Since you mentioned a range, I would recommend going there and shooting as many different handguns as possible. Every handgun mentioned so far will get the job done, the big question is which one do YOU like the most. So get out there and start shooting, and have fun!:)

happy g
August 13, 2004, 04:26 PM
Gurnard,
I had a PM40. The recoil is a bit harsh. I traded it in. It kept breaking followers. That got old really fast. But, over all the gun was 100% reliable. But, you have to be able to practice with it... So, if you choose to get one... keep it very well lubed and buy some shooting gloves. All in all they are great little guns.
Regards,
Happy

Russ
August 13, 2004, 06:51 PM
I have a Kel-Tec .380 and it has functioned flawlessly. This is my main carry piece since it is so light and is great for pocket carry.

I also have a Kahr MK 40 which I like alot. I don't carry it much but it is a reliable gun. At 24-25 ounces, it is a bit heavy so not made for pocket carry. I think Kahr makes top notch guns but some do seem to have problems. I have heard both good and bad things about their polymer offerings. However, if you like them and the weight go for it. Send it back if it is not working well. Kahr will take care of you.

jetman
August 14, 2004, 10:53 AM
I've been into handguns for decades now and still love them. I work in a very BAD neighborhood and have to open the store up when I'm on call, late at night and all alone. I've been carrying "something" long before my CCW permit made me Legal. I've tried many different guns to carry but since I bought my PM9 I leave them all home, and sold several of them. It is my MAIN carry weapon and have about 1000 rounds through it now and it runs like a Swiss watch. It is much more accurate than any 3" barrel has a right to be. It had some "teething problems" during it's initial break-in, but is flawless now. I have a smaller frame build and it disappears under an untucked t-shirt and pair of shorts with an IWB holster. The recoil is a little jumpy for a small, light gun, but definitely manageable. I'd buy it again in a heartbeat. I looked at a Glock 36 but it was much too blocky and heavy for me after being used to the Kahr. I even sold my 3" Kimber Ultra Tactical II since all it got was closet time, after the Kahr. They definitely aren't meant to be a range/target pistol, but a self defense weapon. For that they are the best.... in my opinion

Mark13
August 14, 2004, 03:59 PM
I like my K9. It conceals easily, which is its primary role. If I'm wearing a jacket I go with a larger pistol though. The trigger is smooth, and fairly light for DAO, but it's not my favorite.

My hands are smaller and I can get my whole hand on it for a good grip.
I think the original K9/K40 Kahrs are the smallest 9mm/.40 autos that can take a life time of abuse from the hottest loads in those calibers.

I've heard some good things and some bad about the smaller "MK" ones.

gunslinger387
August 17, 2004, 02:20 AM
Gurnard,

I usually carry a 342PD however this past weekend I went out of state to a less than desirable area for a couple of days, I carried my K-40. If I knew trouble was brewing and had to have a pistol I would prefer my Sig P220ST. I find the Sig too large to carry, however the K-40 is easy to carry and has plent of oomph. I found it more reassuring than the 342.

MyRoad
August 17, 2004, 11:34 PM
I know that many of you have several handguns from different manufacturers. Does switching between brands/models give you any trouble?

I have a K40 Stainless (2003) that I bought to carry. I love everything about the gun - it definitely is high quality. The trigger pull is very smooth, much lighter than my SW442 (for a small revolver comparison), but it is *long*, and as mentioned, does not stage. In the end, if I practice with it a lot, I can shoot it accurately, even with double taps. The problem is that my shots take a full second longer than with other guns. I can't untrain (and I really wouldn't want to) the trigger memory I have for 1911's and others I own. Specifically, I "squeeze" the trigger at a certain *speed* I'm trained for regardless of the trigger pull - if I go any faster I'll jerk the gun. With a 1911 'squeeze and fire' are in a fraction of a second - with the Kahr, I just keep squeezing until it goes off, and since I'd rather be accurate than fast and miss, it takes a full second longer each time. Bottom line, I don't carry the Kahr, but I do respect it.

I also have a PM9. It's accurate, reliable, and the factory night sights are great. My personal issue... I won't shoot 124gr. +P through it. I'm sure the gun can handle it, but the snap is intense enough that it feels like the slide is going to snap right off that little plastic grip and hit me in the head. I know, it's stupid, but it makes me think about the gun instead of the target, so I stick to standard loads.

jetman
August 18, 2004, 06:19 PM
About 500 of the 1000 rounds through my PM9 were Speer 125 gr. +P Gold Dots.

Once fully broken in it shoots great with +P or standard loads. I've never had any issues at all with the +P rounds through my PM9

Preacherman
August 18, 2004, 09:05 PM
I'm afraid I'm one of the few who really doesn't like Kahr pistols. Not that there's anything wrong with the design - they're small, easy to carry, accurate, and all of those are Good Things. Unfortunately, I've owned 3 at various times (bought an MK9 and a P9, and acquired a PM9 in a trade), and all three have proven to be insufficiently reliable for me to trust them with my life. I reckon I've had an average of 2-3 malfunctions per 100 rounds with them - and that's simply not acceptable.

I don't know why this is - I don't think it's me, because I shoot other autopistols and revolvers just fine, so I don't see myself mishandling these Kahrs. They just haven't been reliable enough for my standards. I've sold them all, and now concentrate on small revolvers for my BUG's and pocket carry.

drf
August 19, 2004, 04:39 PM
You've got many responses but I hope you read this....

I've got the Blackened P9 in 9mm and it has been a flawless gun...

Some say its not reliable but that is the earlier versions of the poylmer kahrs.
If you order or specify the blackened Kahrs it will be one of the new ones with the bugs worked out....

Get a hogue jr. grip for it and you'll be all set...

I shot 100 rds from this gun without the hogue and it wore me out, with the Hogue slip on it was a different story....

I have never shot a PM (smaller version of the P9) but if your going to shoot it all the time the P9 is the gun to buy.

Also, it is very easy to conceal and extremely light!

The P9 will feed any crap ammo or high quality ammo you put threw it...

I have about 500rds through it now and it has performed like I said flawless! Even when extremely dirty........drf

contactcole
August 22, 2004, 04:23 PM
Have the P9. I think the Kahr P9 is the perfect compromise between CCW size and shooting performance/comfort. Key word is "compromise". After 150 rounds I'm done shooting this gun, whereas I can put 300+ through our G17 or USP40c comfortably no problem. And, both easily outshoot the P9. However, I don't want to CCW either all day every day, in summer or winter wear. And, for comfotable IWB (for a small frame build like me) the Kahr is hard to beat. Bottomline: The smaller the gun the more likely you'll carry it, period.

contactcole
October 29, 2007, 12:18 AM
Owned the Kahr P9 and MK9. Both shot well given there smaller size and intended use. I really liked that P9 as a compact CCW.

The P9 seemed cheap, but the MK9 was solid. Both were great guns to CARRY but my Glock 23 is the better gun to actually SHOOT. I prefer performance, so traded both and carry the Glock 23 as I carry what I shoot best.

That P9 was a great little 9mm, but the MK9 performed less so due to small size. Again, both were good shooters and both were 100% reliable.

Carry size is always a trade-off to performance. I'd NOT get the .40 in ANY Kahr P-series as 9mm recoil was about all I wanted in such a small/light gun.

grimjaw
October 29, 2007, 01:10 AM
It's a good thing we discuss how to deal with zombies on THR, because I see threads come back from the dead constantly. ;)

jm

contactcole
October 29, 2007, 01:39 AM
Funny. I just noticed that date too on the last post... and I was the last one to post when I had the P9. I did like that gun, but in the end went with the gun I shoot better (The Glock 23)

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