1911 Full Length Guide Rod?


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GaryK
August 11, 2004, 10:12 AM
Could someone explain the reasons behind using a full length guide rod. I have never been able to figure this out. Thanks.

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JoeHatley
August 11, 2004, 12:14 PM
Little extra weight up front to help with muzzle rize, but mostly because some folks think they look cool...

Joe

Tamara
August 11, 2004, 12:29 PM
They can help a loose gun feel smoother, which is why I tossed one in a rattletrap Essex I had when I traded it in.

Other than that purpose, I think they're tools of the devil, but that's just me. ;)

garrettwc
August 11, 2004, 01:03 PM
Other than that purpose, I think they're tools of the devil, but that's just me.

Preach on sister Tamara!! :D

Dave Sample
August 11, 2004, 03:17 PM
I just love that woman! I love FLGR's if for no other reason that there are a lot af silly opinions about them. My is just as silly as yours!

bountyhunter
August 11, 2004, 05:27 PM
Could someone explain the reasons behind using a full length guide rod. I have never been able to figure this out. Thanks. Because when they are drilled with a 1/16" take down hole, they allow the rod/spring/bushing to be catured and removed as a single assembly. Put back in the same way. Picture never having to use a bushing wrench again or fight with a recoil spring... a tiny hole in the FLGR rod and a bent paper clip tool make this a reality.

shep854
August 11, 2004, 11:44 PM
Duane Thomas wrote an article in Dillon's Blue Press catalog/magazine in which he claimed the FLGR helped extend recoil spring life by preventing kinking of the spring. FWIW.

I don't like 'em.

45 Fu
August 11, 2004, 11:50 PM
They supposedly help tighten up the pistol and help keep everything locking up the same way thus consistent and tighter groups. Having said that, I will say that I can see no real advantage in a carry gun. They may help in bullseye shooting where reliabilty isn't an issue but I just can't tell the difference at social ranges.

My Kimber Custom II has a FLGR and has run 100% so I probably won't change it (if it ain't broke...) but I would to keep it reliable if it were an issue. Again, at 25 yards I have never seen any real accuracy advantage either. If the pistol will shoot a group you can cover with your hand at 25 yards you have a serviceable pistol. Anything smaller is just an ego booster (but it sure is fun!).

Dave Sample
August 12, 2004, 08:54 PM
I doubt very much if your hole in the rod trick will work without a reverse plug. It would be interesting to try, though. I have never seen that done but have drilled a lot of guide rods for the bull barrel method of a captured recoil spring system. Interesting idea. My Short Sword (EAGLE TWO) has a recoil system like that and it has a bushing of sorts. I checkered the end on the guide rod on EAGLE ONE. Maybe I will drill one and try it. I know you have a ledge in the slide that prevents the plug from going back in but that could be filed out like we do for the reverse plug system.

bountyhunter
August 13, 2004, 01:49 PM
I doubt very much if your hole in the rod trick will work without a reverse plug. They do use a reverse plug. It stays on the rod with the spring when you remove the assembly.

Dave Sample
August 13, 2004, 05:16 PM
What kind of 1911 are you talking about , bountyhunter? I was referring top a stock 5" government model.

WhoKnowsWho
August 13, 2004, 07:13 PM
I just replaced the full length guide rod on my SA Loaded model with a standard setup. :D I am starting to think it just plain looks nicer that way anyways, no extra protrusion when the slide is back.

bountyhunter
August 16, 2004, 01:06 PM
What kind of 1911 are you talking about , bountyhunter? I was referring top a stock 5" government model. Me too. The stock 5" 1911 can accept the standard FLGR with the reverse bushing and standard spring. If you drill a 1/16" hole vertically through the rod about 1.3" (that's from memory) from the muzzle end, you can then use a bent paper clip to capture the reverse bushing and spring onto the rod when the slide is held all the way back. Once the tool is in the hole, allow the slide to come forward and the rod/spring/bushing are all held on the FLGR as an assembly. never have to take it apart, goes back in as an assy and then you push the slide back, take out the paper clip, and the slide comes forward and your done.

BTW, STI sells the FLGR's already pre-drilled with the hole. I think dawson's precision sells them.

AirPower
August 16, 2004, 02:16 PM
would the drilling of hole weaken the FLGR?

bountyhunter
August 16, 2004, 04:30 PM
would the drilling of hole weaken the FLGR? Not really. There is no rotational shear force on the rod of any consequence.

Dave Sample
August 16, 2004, 04:36 PM
I am still wondering how you get the guide rod bushing past the indent in the slide that contains the recoil spring plug. Or maybe they don't do that anymore. Any 1911 that I put a reverse plug in had to be drilled or filed out to enlarge that hole. Changing times. I will look at a brand new slide.

Zach S
August 16, 2004, 05:47 PM
I hate FLGRs. I take 'em out of all my 1911s. The takedown hole on my 4" kimber was handy, untill I decided to change the spring. I have a few dents in my living room ceiling where my hand slipped off the recoil spring plug and launched it while trying to get the paperclip back in the take-down hole. It has a short GR in it now, as well as my 3.5" Para C7.45 LDA.

As far as bushing wrenches go, I havent used oen since I got rid of all mt FLGRs.

MrMurphy
August 16, 2004, 09:24 PM
People think they look neat and invent other reasons to keep them on there.

I've never used a 1911 with one and never seen the need for it. If the gun had actually "needed" it for operational purposes, Browning would have put it on there around 1905.

Beavertails and such are all ergonomic advances, they don't count. :)

Tamara
August 16, 2004, 10:19 PM
BTW, STI sells the FLGR's already pre-drilled with the hole. I think dawson's precision sells them.

I'm pretty sure all the small Kimbers come with the hole in the rod.

My Kimber isn't a small one, and I relocated the FLGR to eBay, so I can't tell you about older 5" guns... ;)

bountyhunter
August 17, 2004, 12:52 PM
I've never used a 1911 with one and never seen the need for it. If the gun had actually "needed" it for operational purposes, Browning would have put it on there around 1905. Try re-assembling a Para 1640 without the captive spring method. That beast has a "18 pound" recoil spring that could hold up a ford truck axle. I used to be a semi pro bowler in times past and my hands and forearms were strong enough to throw a 16 pound bowling ball most of the way to the pins in the air... and that para is more than a match for me. Bottom line, the standard .45 uses a 15# recoil spring. The .40's are at least 18 (some higher) and fighting that SOB plug back in was a genuine misery.

You couldn't pay me enough to go back to using a bushing wrench.

Shmackey
August 17, 2004, 01:34 PM
Bah. I'm no historian, but I think that they had 5" pieces of rod back in 1911, and JMB went with Ol' Stubby anyway.

A full-length guide rod makes disassembly w/o some kind of tool a pain in the butt. A standard one is simple. And my stubby-equipped Colt is slicker than Ashcroft after an encounter with a bowl of Crisco.

Dave Sample
August 17, 2004, 03:31 PM
http://pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL368/953404/4974857/63733725.jpg

Colt Slide with plug captured.

http://pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL368/953404/4974857/63733735.jpg

Another Colt Gold Cup Slide

http://pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL368/953404/4974857/63733751.jpg

Brand new 70 Series Colt slide. Tell me how you are going to get that plug out of there from the back without machining the slide? It must be Magic!

bountyhunter
August 17, 2004, 04:44 PM
I have three 1911's (two STI and one Para) with slides built for FLGR. The picture you show is by no means the industry standard. That bushing is not there in any 1911 I own or have ever fooled with.

The 6" longslide 1911 I have also does not have that bushing, but does have a two piece guide rod and a "sleeve bushing" that inserts into the slide into the area your picture shows a bushing. But, mine comes out during disassembly.

Obiwan
August 22, 2004, 08:08 PM
Gosh...I am starting to actually feel gifted

I have 3 -1911's...2-sti Trojans and a Kimber

All came with flgr's

I have no problems with assembly/disassembly zand they all shoot great

No reliability problems

No incontinence problems

My Internet connection is fine

No desperate urge to worship Satan

:evil:

Just lucky I guess!

Saw the recent article on Valtoro pistols in SWAT

Author noted that while he saw no need, he was not going to argur with THE MAN.....

So be happy...let someone move your cheese....you will probably survive:D

Smarter men than me hate them...smarter men than me love them

Dave Sample
August 23, 2004, 07:51 PM
Those slides were COLT's. I gues they are Not the "Standard of the Industry." Sorry.

Dave Sample
August 23, 2004, 08:00 PM
http://pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL368/953404/4974857/64370328.jpg

Then of course there is this..................

http://pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL368/953404/4974857/64370373.jpg

and......................................

http://pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL368/953404/4974857/64370426.jpg

This is a Caspian Slide of recent production. So maybe the answer is "Maybe you can, and maybe you can't."

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