Which states are the most pro-guns? or, which ones are the most anti-guns?


August 11, 2004, 11:31 AM
I begin to consider my future job locations. There are many factors, but one important one is whether the state is gun-owner friendly? Current I live in connecticut, a state neither very friendly nor hostile to gun owners. I want to move to a free state where I could really enjoy my hobbies.:D, and definitely want to avoid the states where gun-owners are treated almost as potential criminals.:cuss:

Please give me some recommendations, thanks a lot! :)

By the way, when I move to another state, what do I need to do to leagally own the firearms I already have in my former state?

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Old Partner
August 11, 2004, 11:37 AM
I would imagine that Arizona and Virginia should appear high on your list to go to and California, New Jersey, New York and Maryland should be avoided.

2nd Amendment
August 11, 2004, 11:56 AM
Indiana a big YES and Illinois a great big fat screeching NOOOO!

August 11, 2004, 12:06 PM
GA is fairly pro-gun. I've had no problems. Easy to get classIII transfer's here as well. Simply go to the GBI (Georgia Bureau of Investigations) and have their firearms rep sign for you. No worries bout local LEO chiefs messing with you and asking you silly questions as why you want to own that (non of his business).

August 11, 2004, 12:07 PM
Pennsylvania, so long as you don't live in Philly or Pittsburgh. There's lots of great land inbetween.

August 11, 2004, 12:14 PM
I moved to Arizona from Connecticut last year. It was like leaving an Iron Curtain nation and moving to the real America! A few comparisons:

CCW – CT is discretionary issue, with many hoops to jump. Took me 12 weeks to get my permit there. No open carry there, and you can’t even take your pistol to range without a carry permit. In AZ, you can open carry without a permit, take your gun to the range, etc. Concealed carry permits are shall issue. Mine took all of two weeks to get, and it was over a holiday weekend, no less. Only problem with AZ CCW is that you can’t carry in restaurants that serve alcohol, even if you aren’t drinking. We’re working on that, though.

Range access – There are ranges everywhere in AZ, plus lots of open desert. The Ben Avery shooting complex on the north side of Phoenix is amazing, and publicly maintained. Arizonans are actually proud of it! I shoot at Rio Salado in Mesa, which is a good facility, as well. Ranges in CT are, by comparison, weak sisters. There are matches of every variety out here, too: with IPSC, IDPA, High Power, Garand, conventional bullseye, etc. You can shoot a match every week if you want, and you’ll sometimes see the big guys out there (like Rob Leatham).

Gun shows – There are several BIG gun shows in Phoenix every year. You can get good deals on ammo and sometimes guns, and the selection is nothing short of amazing. The few gun shows I attended in CT pale in comparison. The better gun shows here are larger than the exhibit floors of the NRA conventions I’ve attended.

Gun culture – Gun folks are everywhere in AZ, as are gun shops. No one looks at you suspiciously as you load your rifles into your trunk. People aren’t horrorstruck if you mention that you like shooting or hunting, unless they are recent immigrants from ********** or residents of liberal Tempe. It’s just part of life here for most people, and no big deal. When we lived in CT, the wife and I were very circumspect about revealing we were gun owners. AZ is a breath of fresh air by comparison.

Hunting – AZ has deer, pronghorn, elk, turkey, javelina, lots of birds, and probably some others. There are lotteries for some species, however. I didn’t hunt much beyond pheasants and squirrels in CT, though, so I can’t offer much of a comparison here (I hunted deer in Vermont).

Class III – Lots of people with buzzguns and such here in AZ, if that floats your boat. I only knew a couple of people with Class III back in CT.

Training opportunities – AZ has the granddaddy of all the shooting academies, Gunsite. There are quite a few smaller operations like Suarez International, and also some excellent training available on the local level. CT only has Defense Associates (which I recommend) and Brian Williams, as far as I know.

To legally “transfer” your firearms into Arizona, do the following:

1. Stop moving van.
2. Carry guns into house and place in gun safe.
3. Open a beer to celebrate your new life in a free state.

Feel free to PM me if you can stand more Arizona partisanship.

August 11, 2004, 02:07 PM
NH is a great state. Class Three allowed. Shall Issue Concealed carry with no restrictions except you can not go into court house and Federal buildings.

Suggestion that you go to www.packing.org and check out the laws of each state.

August 11, 2004, 02:12 PM
Since I live in KY, I can tell you that KY, IN and TN are great for gun owners. I can also confirm that IL is one of the worst.

August 11, 2004, 02:14 PM
NH is a fantastic state, and going to be getting better shortly! I hope that we are going to be the third state to not require a permit to excersize your right to CCW.

Jim March
August 11, 2004, 05:10 PM
I think the four worst for STATE laws are New Jersey, Hawaii, Illinois and California.

If you factor in how big a percentage of NY state the city is, it ranks right up there too. And you can make a good case for Maryland being hosed.

Mass is actually a step BELOW some of those.


Well Alaska and Vermont tie for top, of course.

Right below that: Arizona, Utah, Idaho, South Dakota and the like. AZ actually ranks "better than it should" because the *culture* rocks - but the CCW standards are actually tighter than any other at that level. (Then again, open carry practices and rules are killer in AZ.) There's probably more states here I'm not remembering...WA State is borderline.

Then I'd lump all the rest of the shall-issue CCW states below those.

August 11, 2004, 05:25 PM
Since I live in KY, I can tell you that KY, IN and TN are great for gun owners. I can also confirm that IL is one of the worst.

IL isn't really that bad, it's Chicgo and cook county that gives IL a bad name... And the few towns here and there that ban guns as well. The rest of the state is fine. I agree it could be better and I'm thinking of moving to another state.

Just keep in mind just because a state itself is a great place to own guns doesn't mean that the city or county you move to isn't as bad or worse then what you came from. Denver CO is an example of this.


August 11, 2004, 05:26 PM
Speaking only of those I've actually lived in:
Texas and Florida - Yes.
Maryland - Abominable.
New York - Bad.

Texas, at least this part of it, is tops. Besides, there's the Shiner issue.

August 11, 2004, 05:29 PM
I like Texas. Shall issue CHL, you can smoke burglars if they try to escape with your property, all NFA goodies ok, no silly state AWB nonsense, and all the tex-mex and real Mexican food you can eat. :D

Alot of good cajun food too and you can always head next door to Louisiana if you want the real stuff.

August 11, 2004, 05:35 PM
Jim, you rank Texas below WA state?

Jim March
August 11, 2004, 05:43 PM
Jim, you rank Texas below WA state?

Based on difficulty scoring CCW, sure do.

Texas disqualifies for MANY more things: tax issues, etc. And there's training required in TX, not in WA.

Texas has better knife laws though.

MAJOR POINT: I'm not tracking Class3/NFA stuff here, because I'm personally not into that and I don't pay enough attention to those laws. WA is very restrictive on that stuff, so that may make a big difference come to think. That's a personal bias on my part (not "against" those guns, just that I pay more attention to CCW than NFA).

August 11, 2004, 05:53 PM
What do you think of these parameters, Jim?

Use of force laws.
General acceptance of guns and gunnies.
Gunshops and Ranges.

August 11, 2004, 06:01 PM
While no means a Virginia, MD isn't as bad as some may say.

While there is no fair-issue CCW here (yet), the rest of the state's firearms laws aren't as bad as other states.

There is the recording of handgun and "regulated firearm" sales & transfers, but there is no problem with selling/buying the other 80% of firearms that are not on those "lists."

So-called "assault pistols" are banned, but the list is short enough to be non-problematic (well, unless you're an Olympic-class target shooter).

The retail magazine capacity limit is 20 rounds, so the normal-cap handgun mags for sale on Sept. 15 will be good to go. Plus, you could buy whatever mags you want out of state, anyway, and still be legal.

Moving from out of state does not mean that your firearms need to be registered (except Class III), or "recorded," unless you sell them. Class III is handled at the state level, so it's shall-sign.

There is no FOID system.

Business owners are allowed to CCW on their business premises, same with home and land owners.

No official law on ammo sale registration, etc., despite what you may be told at SOME gun shops around Monkey County.

MD firearms owners fought the MD-AWB this year in Annapolis and won. Things here have turned the corner, and hopefully will continue in the same direction.

edited to add:
Use of force laws.
- MD is a duty-to-retreat-unless-no-opportunity state, and still has a castle doctrine.

General acceptance of guns and gunnies.
- depends where you go. The MSP staff didn't care that I was getting my FP's for the VA non-res CCW. I hear plenty of third-hand horror stories ("loaded magazines = jail"), but no proof. Lots of people here are closeted firearms owners.

Gunshops and Ranges.
- at least three shops in Monkey County alone, and two public ranges, two private ranges. Way more around the state. Ex.: One county-owned 200m range located 45 min away. Another 600m range 35 min away on a .gov installation, open to club members (easy to join).

August 11, 2004, 08:34 PM
AZgunstudent ...Hunting – AZ has deer, pronghorn, elk, turkey, javelina, lots of birds, and probably some others.... The only thing I'd add is that Arizona has a larger variety of big game than any other state. In addition to your list, we have buffalo, bighorn sheep, mountain lion, bear. I'm not much of a hunter, but I do remember these from the Hunter Safety Course I took a couple of years ago. Of course, this variety is due to the variety in habitat we have here. About the only thing we don't have is an ocean. Lots of beach though. :neener:

Jim March...(Then again, open carry practices and rules are killer in AZ.) I know what you mean, but man, I wish you'd re-phrase that.

Derby FALs
August 11, 2004, 09:42 PM
Brady Campaign "Grades" The States (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=155) with F being a good grade for gun owners.

August 11, 2004, 09:53 PM
Brady Campaign "Grades" The States with F being a good grade for gun owners.

I vever thought about looking at the Brady Campaign....


August 11, 2004, 09:55 PM
Arizona, Utah, Idaho, South Dakota and the like. AZ actually ranks "better than it should" because the *culture* rocks - but the CCW standards are actually tighter than any other at that level. (Then again, open carry practices and rules are killer in AZ.)

Exactly. We're trying to loosen the carry standards, though. I'd highly recommend that you folks come live with us in AZ.

I'm kind of surprised that I haven't seen much Texas cheerleading. Texas isn't bad, but there are a number of things that strongly turn me off:

1.) no open carry, which means that you have to cough up cash and have yourself put in a database if you want to carry in any way whatsoever. This also strips 18, 19, and 20-year olds of their right of effective self-defense, which is also further diminished by point 2.

2.) Really stupid non-firearm weapon laws. You guys know what I'm talking about--Bowie knives, etc., and other stuff is illegal. If you can't carry a gun because you're a younger adult, your options get limited.

3.) "NO GUNS ALLOWED" 30.06 signs EVERYWHERE. Of course, this varies from place to place, but on my last visit to San Antonio, for example, you couldn't enter damned near everywhere if you were packing. Sure, you can "not see" the signs, but I'd prefer to respect property rights whenever I can.

El Tejon
August 11, 2004, 10:06 PM
Trey, true, but things in Tejas are improving than when I first started going down there right after Bush signed their CCW reform.:cool:

Lot fewer .30-'06 signs than there used to be and reciprocity is slowly getting better. Lots of work to be done, but good to be winning.

Gray Peterson
August 12, 2004, 04:24 AM
Using K-Romulus' template, some facts on Washington:

Washington State was the first state to be shall-issue specific to statute. 30 years ago, some of the city authorities used to resist their lawful duties tooth and nail, but thanks to the state law, you can always go to the Sheriffs Office. Resident and Non-resident permits given out on a shall-issue basis.

Washington State does have a handgun database registration system, but only for firearms that are sold at gun stores and FFL's. Afterwards, it's optional to register your firearm.


5 day waiting period on handgun purchases, but this is waived with your CPL.

No High Capacity Magazine Restrictions.

We allow suppressors, but not SBS, SBR, or Select Fire Weapons unless you possessed it before a certain date in 1994.

We have no license to own or possess, only to conceal.

Business owners are allowed to CCW on their business premises, same with home and land owners w/o a CPL.

No ammo registration.

Foreward progress on passing more pro-gun laws is stymied due to a divided party legislature and a democratic governor. The upcoming election is indicating that the next governor will be a democrat as well, crossing fingers on Dino Rossi, though.

Use of Force law:

Washington is not a duty to retreat state. Attempts by prosecutors in the past to "end run it", but the Washington State Supreme Court on a repeated basis that there's no provision in the statute to charge people with homicide or other crimes for "refusing to retreat" from where they have a legal right to be.

Here's the law on justifiable self defense homicide.

RCW 9A.16.050
Homicide -- By other person -- When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.,

Figure that this is the highest standard for using self defense in this state, ie it doesn't take much. Merely assaulting a bus driver in the performance of his duties in your presence is enough to have this statute protect you. Considering what happened 6 years ago to a Metro Bus (Metro being King County Public Transit System) falling over a bridge.

Here's another statute that must be followed too, but I'm not 100 percent sure if both this and the above statute need to be followed in concert, or if "Use of Force" is just non-deadly force:


General acceptance of guns and gunnies.
- Depends. Within Seattle city itself, it's pretty well not acceptable among the elite. Hell, I'm having to fight with the City Library system to follow the preemption law. I'm sure that Bellevue and Redmond and the eastside urban areas will have the same problem. But South King and the rest of the area seems ok with guns.

Gunshops and Ranges.
- Firearms Academy in Chehalis, Bullseye Shooting Range in Tacoma. Can anyone else chime in on other ranges in King or Snohomish County?

August 12, 2004, 05:47 AM
I think the four worst for STATE laws are New Jersey, Hawaii, Illinois and California.

Jim, I'm almost positive some NY'er is upset as the lack of mention..

DC might win the contest overall for nastiest, good thing it's not a state...

August 12, 2004, 10:47 AM
Utah is a good place to be fire firearms.

CCW is great and easy.

Use of Force laws are good to go.

Class III is easy to get signoffs.

Lots of shooting areas..

What could be better? :)

August 12, 2004, 11:12 AM
What could be better?



August 12, 2004, 11:28 AM
By state, Alaska had the highest male-female ratio,



August 12, 2004, 11:58 AM
AZ is for now one of the more Pro-Gun states but you must remember we are getting a ton of nuts moving here from the state way to the left of us or should I say to the West of us! Like a cancer all it does is spread

August 12, 2004, 12:15 PM
Nevada is pretty loose on gun laws.

Shall issue CCW (you must qualify with your carry piece(s) though)

Class 3 allowed

Open carry is allowed

No carry into schools/govt buildings/etc (your feelings may differ on this)

No state AWB.

A mans home is his castle

I love it here!

August 12, 2004, 12:55 PM
Nevada does have those screwed up cities / areas where your CCW is no good....

Boulder? Henderson? North Las Vegas?

August 12, 2004, 04:44 PM
Ok, it seems many states are more pro-gun than CT, which got a A- in Brady 's stupid and insane grade list:neener: I will definitely go to on of the so-called D or F states from this iron curtain when I get my new job.:D

PS. Alaska is nice, but isn't the weather too cold there?:) I wish I could go for a Alaska hunting trip one day!

August 12, 2004, 04:54 PM

Carry Permits:

Shall Issue, $19/5years some counties as quick as 5 days, soley on a background check. No courses, nada.

Carry restricted areas: Primary and secondary schools, courtrooms, judges chambers. Gov't must provide lockers to check your weapon in. :) There's none of that "no bar, restaurants with > 50% of revenue from alcohol" nonsense.


Nics check & paperwork, 15 minutes from selection to your car, no limits.

Open Carry: Legal outside of PHL (and possibly other 1st class cities)

AWB: None.

NFA/Suppressors, etc: OK, state penalties for noncompliance with federal law.

Armor: OK, as long as you're not doing a felony

Knives: OK, as long as they aren't spring loaded

Other than the fact that we're surrounded, what's not to like?

August 12, 2004, 05:01 PM
At least in CA you can carry a large folder.
In AZ and FL if you have a ccw you can also carry nunchuks and large folders,pepper spray,swords,battle axes.
I don't understand states that let you carry a .45 but not a cold steel grande vaquero because it has a 6 inch blade or a .357 magnum but not a pair of chucks.
I say that the right to KABA means (as T Jefferson said) "All the terrible weapons of war".

How is Alaska and VT on these and class three issues?
I know in VT you can not carry rifles in your car because of poaching (which sux because I would rather bring a rifle to a gun fight)
Can you drink in a bar in NV and ccw?
I don't drink at all my self but can't stand those dumb laws that say I can't even go to a concert or restaurant due to somebody else may be drinking...

lot of Class three mentioned here,but what about AOW's can you carry those cool short barrelled rifles and shotties? like the pwc krinkov and SAW?...what about batons,baseball bats?
Whips what about whips?:p

August 12, 2004, 05:52 PM
USMC_2674, our CCW is perfectly valid in those jurisdictions. My wife got her CCW in Henderson. The particular laws you are referring to apply to unlicensed individuals.

The only truly odious gun law in Nevada is Clark County's (Las Vegas et al) handgun registration law.

August 12, 2004, 06:04 PM
Good to know Gazpacho...


August 13, 2004, 03:36 AM
I'd have to say Vermont is probably the most gun-friendly state when you simply look at the laws, particularly in regard to concealed carry. I'm not a hunter, so I can't tell you what that situation is like. Most of the guys I know that hunt do so on out-of-state trips.

The only real problem with Vermont is Chittenden county, in which most of Vermont lives. Burlington (our biggest city) is a major college town and, as such, extremely liberal. You'll see lots of "progressive" politics in the city and surrounding areas, but none of this has had an impact on firearms.

Unfortunately, Peter Clavelle is running for governor, which could be bad. He's switched from the Progressive to Democatic party for the campaign, and he's hoping to upset the current governor, Jim Douglas, a republican. Clavelle was mayor of Burlington for several years, and Burlington does have some restrictions on carry (no public parks, for example, though there's no way you could know this without digging for the statute; no signs or other indications to be found).

Even so, there's no permit required to carry here, and for the most part, you can carry wherever you like (save the usual government buildings and such).

August 14, 2004, 02:15 PM
Take a long hard look at Tennessee (except Memphis and Shelby County): Very gun friendly, easy carry permit (doesn't REQUIRE concealed although almost all of us do), no permit required to purchase or possess, instant check with no waiting period, lots of great shooting ranges and clubs, Class III friendly (got a dealer 15 minutes from my rural home!), lots of hunting opportunities.

No state income tax (more money to buy guns and ammo).

Chut1st (ask questions later)

NRA Patron Member
Safari Club Int'l Life Member
Law Enforcement Alliance of America Life Member

August 14, 2004, 04:44 PM
Arkansas is not half-bad. Shall issue (about 30 days) no real restrictions on any type of weapon. A very pitiful lack of ranges though

Gray Peterson
August 14, 2004, 04:45 PM
Open Carry: Legal outside of PHL (and possibly other 1st class cities)

Open Carry is legal in PHL as long as you have a PA LTCF or other recognized permit.

August 14, 2004, 06:20 PM
Lonnie Wilson: I was referring to permitless carry. Sorry, my bad. the PA LTCF is pretty much an "anything goes" get out of jail free card, except for the very few forbidden places (primary/secondary schools, courtrooms/chambers)

August 14, 2004, 06:20 PM
New Mexico is pretty decent.

Open carry, shall issue, (both have some restrictions). Since automobiles are considered "extended domain" you can carry concealed in your car without a "permit".

Old Dog
August 14, 2004, 08:58 PM
Lonnie Wilson did a super job in enumerating (at least, IMO) why Washington is such a great state for gun owners. Plus, you've got great fishing, hunting, two mountain ranges and you will never get bored driving anywhere, the scenery is majestic. Cost of living is moderate -- no state income tax! Climate is great, winters are mild (the rain is just a myth we perpetuate to keep the Californians from coming up en masse).
Add the Arlington Training Center, Arlington, Snohomish county as a good indoor range facility, plus some great gun shows every month.

August 14, 2004, 09:16 PM
State name Resident permits Non-resident permits Shall-issue
1 Alaska yes no yes
2 Arizona yes yes yes
3 Arkansas yes no yes
4 Colorado yes no yes
5 Connecticut yes yes yes
6 Florida yes yes yes
7 Georgia yes no yes
8 Idaho yes yes yes
9 Indiana yes yes yes
10 Kentucky yes no yes
11 Louisiana yes no yes
12 Maine yes yes yes
13 Michigan yes no yes
14 Minnesota yes yes yes
15 Mississippi yes no yes
16 Missouri yes no yes
17 Montana yes no yes
18 Nevada yes yes yes
19 New Hampshire yes yes yes
20 New Mexico yes no yes
21 North Carolina yes no yes
22 North Dakota yes yes yes
23 Ohio yes no yes
24 Oklahoma yes no yes
25 Oregon yes yes yes
26 Pennsylvania yes yes yes
27 South Carolina yes no yes
28 South Dakota yes no yes
29 Tennessee yes yes yes
30 Texas yes yes yes
31 Utah yes yes yes
32 Virginia yes yes yes
33 Washington yes yes yes
34 West Virginia yes no yes
35 Wyoming yes no yes

August 14, 2004, 09:30 PM
fwiw, although alaska does not issue non-resident permits, they do honor permits from all other states.

and i'm pretty sure non residents are also allowed to carry concealed WITHOUT having any permit.

edit - oh yeah, if any of you are going to move to alaska, you'll need to bring some single females that are willing to at least give me the time of day.

August 14, 2004, 09:52 PM
Ditto Arkansas being pretty good.

The reason we lack a bunch of ranges is that we are just now getting to the point where the culture of shooting in your own backyard, or on Uncle Billy Bob's back 40 acres is just now starting to get problematic.

More ranges should start popping up.

In Arkansas, lever-action 30-30s aren't even considered to be actual guns......more like fashion accessories that most of us get for Christmas sometime around the year we turn 12 or 13.....


Quad Fifty
August 14, 2004, 10:26 PM
Oklahoma is a solid firearms-friendly state.

Our CCW is a little onerous, and costs too much (IMHO), but well worth it. Does require a safety course, and is now good for five years.

Our state Constitution explicitly grants the "right to keep and bear arms" in defense of "home, person, or property," plus we have the "Make my day" law that I gather is like a "castle" law in other states. It just flat out says, in fancy legal jargon of course, that if someone unlawfully breaks into your home a person is authorized to use "deadly force," and can't be sued, either.

Hunting is good, too, plenty of game and all the normal seasons & pretty typical restrictions.

Ranges are another matter. They're scarce. The best one in my area is probably the Oklahoma City Gun Club--it's all outdoors in a beautiful setting, lots of diverse shooting ranges, covered pavillions to shoot from, etc. It's a private club, and has a waiting list for membership, but if you join it's a beautiful place to shoot and plink.

I think Oklahoma had a "D-" on that link to the Brady list I looked up, so we must be doing something right! :D

Shanghai McCoy
August 14, 2004, 10:54 PM
I'll second the motion for Oklahoma(have I mentioned lately that I miss Oklahoma?)There are two very good gun clubs near Tulsa,Red Castle and Oil Capitol gun club.Both have excellent facilities and Red Castle has an indoor range in Tulsa as well as the outdoor club grounds.I was there when we got CCW and the wife and I were instructors.Good place and good people.

August 14, 2004, 11:06 PM
oh yeah, if any of you are going to move to alaska, you'll need to bring some single females that are willing to at least give me the time of day.

Waht:what: ya aint gonna pull a McGreevy?:neener:

OK, offer to trade your Bryco collection for a sister or sumpin


August 14, 2004, 11:16 PM
...each county is responsible for CCW issue, but here in Mobile County, as long as you are not a felon and have only had a speeding ticket or two (no domestic violence), no problem- best $20/year I've spent! Not only that, I have a letter from years ago that the AL A.G. confirmed that open carry is legal in the state. Of course, discretion plays a part here. I carry open in my yard, when I'm hunting, etc., but I tend not to in wide-open public. The police will most likely bother you about it, but legally, there's nothing they can do about it.

AND, with all us Bubbas hunting down here, no problem! Of course, you cannot carry in a Fed bldg. or where alcohol is served. I don't drink anyway so no problem.

August 14, 2004, 11:41 PM
I'm an Illinois resident and I went shooting in IN yesterday. It seems like they are more lax. They didn't even ask for an ID. Here in IL, they check for your FOID (Firearms Owner Identification).

But I've heard that the further south you get in IL; the more friendly they are towards gun issues.

August 15, 2004, 10:35 AM
Alaska is nice, but isn't the weather too cold there?

Ohh yes. Why there are days when the mercury rattles around in the bottom of the thermometer like a B-B and brass monkeys have to be kept inside.
Nope, the personal freedom here isn't worth the inconvience of a little chilly weather.:rolleyes:

August 15, 2004, 01:28 PM
Legal outside of PHL (and possibly other 1st class cities)

AFAIK, Philly is the only city of the first class in Pennsylvania.

August 15, 2004, 03:58 PM
Almost all states are more lax then Illinois. I moved out of Illinois a few years back to move to Arizona. I wouldn't trade my house in AZ for the whole state of Chicago. The biggest threat we have in AZ is all the nuts to the left of us or should I say West of us moving in and wanting us to be like were they left. From what i've seen allot here have more use for the illegals

August 15, 2004, 10:54 PM
Considering all these pro-gun states - meaning pro-gun people whose efforts have brought their states to pro-gun - it's a wonder to me that there are any anti-gun laws anywhere yet to be neutralized.

Do we not yet have enough national vote/clout to have our way?


August 15, 2004, 11:48 PM
I know in VT you can not carry rifles in your car because of poaching (which sux because I would rather bring a rifle to a gun fight)

its been almost seven years since I lived in Vermont, but thats not exactly what I remember (and if it is, I broke the law every day). My recollection was that you couldn't have a loaded/chambered rifle in the car.

I kept mine in the gun rack with ammo on the sling. The only time I would hide it was the few occaisions I went skiing at Killington (thats also the only time I locked my doors too).

FWIW - I pretty much skiied Mad River Glen early weekday mornings - no crowds - and played in the backcountry on the weekend (and did chores around the house)

August 16, 2004, 09:09 PM
I am in Western NY State. I have a lot of friends who hunt and shoot. We have no extraordinary restrictions on firearms here.

NOW the New York City area is another story. AND I am worried about Schumer and Hilary F'ing things up for the rest of the state.

I like my semi-autos with big detachable mags.

August 16, 2004, 10:18 PM
I have to disagree about Western New York. You are correct that there are no special restrictions on rifles and shotguns, and hunting is popular. Handguns are another story. New York State has little respect for the individual right to self-defense. I grew up in Buffalo, and still have lots of friends and family there. One of my friends up there is into guns, has a Beretta 92, it took him a full year just to get his permit to purchase the pistol. Had to get character references from his neighbors and everything. And of course he can't get a permit to carry concealed at all in NY.

August 17, 2004, 04:22 PM
Alaska is by far the best. I don't know of anyplace outside that's nearly as gun friendly. It's like a different planet. We don't really need a strong gun lobby in Juneau because even our liberal Democrats are pro RKBA. Our Vermont Carry legislation was penned by one of them in fact. Here the leftists only have three or four guns, while the real hard core guys like Wayne Anthony Ross have enough to arm a small nation. Any gun control is a non-starter here. The only hangup has come with Class III permits, and this situation has improved greatly. And aside from the laws, the gun culture is as pro as it's possible to be. Folks don't bat an eye at open carry, and pretty much everyone has a moose rifle. I've even toted my pistol-grip black Mossberg slug gun around in the parking lot in urban Spenard and nobody cared.

August 17, 2004, 04:48 PM
Mass is bad. Getting better very slowly. It al depends on your local chief of police for the most part. IN adition to that we are limited to what guns we can purchase by our attorney general.

August 17, 2004, 04:49 PM
Sounds like Alaska is good To bad it is so cold their. Guess I just need that Arizona heat

August 17, 2004, 05:22 PM
Cold?! Actually south-central has winters far milder than the midwest (at least south of Willow). We're in a heat wave right now. The temp is in the 70's, but with the constant sun it feels like the 90's. The inside of buildings and cars get roasting. Indeed I'll bet we get as much sun as parts of Arizona.

August 17, 2004, 06:11 PM
Never knew that When you think of Alaska you always think of cold and snow. Hey don't tell many people about the mild winters or you will be getting allot of liberals moving their. Then you will be like the rest of the country. Here in Arizona between the nuts to the left of us moving in or should I say to the West of us and all the illegals I'd say in a few years Arizona won't be the state it was

August 17, 2004, 06:26 PM
The leftists have already established beach-heads in parts of Southeast and in Homer, but so far we're holding the line :D

Mostly, Alaska is very libertarian. Live and let live. Sometimes it gets pretty lawless, which is both good and bad.

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