(PRNJ) Civilian obtains CCW permit!


Nathaniel Firethorn
August 12, 2004, 12:13 PM
In PRNJ, this is news on the order of a Biblical miracle! Doubly so because it came out of a PRNJ courtroom.


Ship captain's Second Amendment rights upheld
Judge cites terror threat in allowing gun.
Thursday, August 12, 2004
The Express-Times

BELVIDERE -- A Warren County ship captain may carry a concealed weapon in New Jersey waters and ports, state Superior Court Judge John Pursel ruled Wednesday.

The judge cited the post-Sept. 11 world of terrorist threats and the recent rise in the terrorist alert system as part of the reason for his decision to grant the carrying permit.

Authorities fear the ruling could lead to similar requests from other civilians who would normally face a daunting task in obtaining a New Jersey carrying permit -- permits that are tougher to obtain than those in other states, such as Pennsylvania. [And which cause zero problems in those other states...]

"I would submit that it would open a floodgate of future applications," said Warren County Assistant Prosecutor LeeAnn Cunningham in legal paperwork submitted to the court earlier.

"For example," Cunningham wrote, "limousine drivers, helicopter pilots, etc. etc." [In other words, citizens?]

She said recent terrorist threats reported by news outlets involve those specific occupations.

But the judge ruled against the prosecutor's office and granted the carrying permit to Hackettstown resident Salvatore Atanasio Jr.

Atanasio may only carry a gun when operating a ship or at port and dock facilities, the judge ruled.

The ship captain had requested a broader permit enabling him to carry a concealed gun at other times, authorities said. [And the difficulty with that would be... :rolleyes:]

Atanasio works for VIP Yacht Cruises and Yacht Charter Networks, both out of Weehawken, N.J., according to court papers.

He is a former merchant marine who has operated large passenger ships and other sea vessels during the past 15 years, the judge said in his decision.

"Mr. Atanasio was pretty clear in his testimony that the threats which he faces are real," the judge wrote.

Pursel noted the Maritime Security Level for the waters in the New York area is at an all-time high.

Cunningham argued in part that New Jersey citizens are not entitled to a carrying permit based only on "generalized fears" or "to protect property."

But the judge found Atanasio's concerns are much broader.

"It is about protecting the public interest by protecting people [Wow! A judge who wants to protect people who aren't necessarily Democrat party bosses!] or the infrastructure in light of the genuine threats which have been disseminated daily to the public," the judge wrote.

The assistant prosecutor argued trained security professionals are available to protect ships.

But the judge found Atanasio's qualifications and past training made him the most qualified person to secure a ship since he knows the vessel better than anyone.

Cunningham also questioned the validity of the carrying permit when Atanasio sails into the waters of New York and Connecticut.

Atanasio currently commands ships carrying between 150 to 600 passengers on sailings throughout the New York area and along the eastern seaboard, court papers show.

The captain testified the ship's "wheel area" is protected only by a wooden door that could easily be stormed and leave him helpless.

The captain said the ships he commands could then be used to ram a larger vessel.

He told the judge it would take the U.S. Coast Guard anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour to respond if his vessel were in distress while at sea.

A gun would enable him to gain some time until a Coast Guard boat arrived, he argued.

Authorities said the federal Homeland Security Department has made no provision for ships captains to carry a weapon on board.

Airline pilots are now permitted to carry guns in the cockpit under specific guidelines.

Warren County Prosecutor Thomas Ferguson said his office will not appeal the judge's ruling.

Ferguson said state law does not prevent a ship's captain from obtaining a carrying permit.

He said most [YM all...] carrying permits go to former police officers who become involved in private security.

"But the statute doesn't limit it to them," he added.

Ferguson said the judge's decision to limit the scope of the carrying permit was a good one.

"We're satisfied with the judge's decision and we're going to leave it there," the prosecutor said.

( Reporter Tom Quigley can be reached at 908-475-8184 or by e-mail at tquigley@express-times.com. )- pdmoderator

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August 12, 2004, 12:44 PM
simply amazing.

Col. Mustard
August 12, 2004, 01:02 PM
...there are still a couple of problems. First, of course, is the fact that he may only legally carry on the ship or in the docks. That's kind of a limited victory. A victory, to be sure, but..

The larger problem is, will the CT or NY police waiting for him on the dock when he reaches his destination? I'm guessing CT and NY do not recognize out-of-state permits (they don't recognize mine, at any rate), and it wouldn't take much detective work for a gun-grabbing DA to anticipate this guy's arrival in his state.

August 12, 2004, 02:55 PM
NY he might be able to get a permit in NYC as he conducts business there. CT is no problem. They are a shall issue state for Non-residents. See

www.packing.org for more details.

August 12, 2004, 03:32 PM
So, that makes it 651 carry permits in NJ, and that had to basically be extracted at lawyerpoint.

Big bleeping whoop.

Note: NJ actually will issue heavily restricted, work related permits for armed guards. This is only a very slight variation on that.

As for "opening the floodgates" to permit applications, perhaps so. Gunking up the courts with permit applications till they surrender might work, except for the fact that there's only about 300 guys in NJ who are even vaguely aware of the situation.

August 12, 2004, 04:15 PM
Cunningham argued in part that New Jersey citizens are not entitled to a carrying permit based only on "generalized fears" or "to protect property."

except for the fact that there's only about 300 guys in NJ who are even vaguely aware of the situation.

Entitled?! that really angers me,the arrogance of these bureaucrats.
If we had a Constitution,I wonder if things would be different:rolleyes:

I was talking to a guy from Vineland NJ a week or two ago,I told him I would never even visit my relatives in NJ because they have even worse then what I have to deal with here in occupied CA.
He said NJ isn't that bad,theres a rifle and shotgun club right down the street.
So,I asked him you can go to the store and buy a Colt .45 and keep it in your car and house and carry it concealed with no problem? He said no, "I guess handguns are an entirely different thing"
And he had never even considered buying one. These kind of things make me think moving only puts a bandaid on the problem,lots of Californians are moving to free state for economic reasons but they are taking the anti gun attitudes with them...

I am glad this guy got his ccw but all the hoops and limitations and "entitled" public servants....:banghead: :cuss: :fire:

Tony Mig
August 12, 2004, 09:35 PM
I seriously thought about applying for a NJ CCW based on the fact that I drive a home heating oil delivery truck for 4 months out of the year.
I know that the local police chief will pass it off to the district court, and the court will most likely denie me.

Those of us who drive petrolium carrying vehicles, have been warned on several occassions to be careful, and viligent since we are a prime target for terrorists. A lot of damage can be created with a 3400 gallon tank full of fuel oil, besides the fact that I have to make deliveries in some pretty dangerous housing projects. But I know if there even is a court judge that believes in my right to self protection, he'll no doubt slap a bunch of restrictions on said permit because that's how things are done in The Democratic People's Republic of New Jersey.....

It's just not worth my time, lost wages, and court expenses.....

Sam Adams
August 13, 2004, 05:49 PM
I lived in NJ for about 38 of my 40 years, until moving 3 1/2 years ago. I'm now in TX, and I thoroughly enjoy the freedom carrying my .45. It sucks that I had to apply to exercise a right, but it was shall issue and doing it through channels instead of saying "the 2nd Amendment is my carry license" may avoid a trip to the klink and assorted other unpleasantness in the future.

Reciprocity is also nice, and has been expanded a bit in the last year or so, and its also easy to get a Florida CHL and have reciprocity in about 30 states.

Also nice about being out of NJ is that I can no longer be hauled off to Rahway for having some stamped-metal boxes with internal springs that some 'hole (Florio) thought was "too big" back in the early '90's.

In short, its good to finally be (moderately) free, unlike in the PRNJ. Nothing beats the feeling of passing the "Welcome to Delaware" sign on the DMB, turning to your wife and saying "Now you won't have to bail me out of jail," and getting a look like you just popped in from Mars (I explained to her about the magazine ban, and how I had about 200 years of prison sitting 2 feet in back of us. Her response was "they don't have laws like that in Texas, do they?" I said "No, Texas is in America.").

I'm sorry for any right-minded folks who are stuck in NJ. You're seriously outnumbered by the NYC refugees (who, perversely, vote for the very same policies that so royally f'd up NYC that they felt the need to leave :cuss: ) and the leeches who've always lived in Newark, Elizabeth, Jersey City, Camden, etc. The saddest part of all is that my folks (not gun enthusiasts, but gun owners) are moving back to NJ from Florida. Now I can't even carry while traveling to see them.

August 13, 2004, 06:15 PM
First of all,Howdy,and Welcome to Texas.
As you know we have a lot of room here I'll extend an invitation to anyone that reads this board,that is in the occupied territories,come to Texas we welcome you.
Warm(really its Hot)Weather not much in the way of winter here.
No State income tax,Friendly people,The best value for your money on real estate.Good(could be better)gun laws
"Only two kinds of People in this World
Texans,and Those that wish they were"

August 13, 2004, 08:04 PM
the underground railroad to Texas stops off @ Freedom House, a short hike from the Cmmdr. Barry Bridge.

Refugees welcome, 24/7.

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