Are trapshooters curmudgeonly?

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

I hear a lot of stuff about the standoffishness of trapshooters, but personally haven't found it to be the case. Just wondering what y'all think.

- pdmoderator

[Dave McCracken]

Rarely.....

I rate being a curmudgeon myself, as a grumpy, middleaged male with aches, pains and paunch. So I fit right in.

But, I've had folks hand me high dollar shotguns costing more than my newest vehicle did to try a shot or two, and on short acquaintance. These have included....

Kolars.

Kreighoffs.

Parkers, including an A-1 Special Grade SBT, possibly the fanciest SBT ever made by anyone. Brand name and serial number inlaid in gold, along with birds,etc.

Model 21 Winchesters, including one owned by Rudy Etchen, one of my personal role models.

Purdeys.

A Churchill O/U, made "Between the Wars" that may qualify as the prettiest
shotgun in MD.

I've also not only had an ATA Hall Of Famer, Steve Hawkins, take time from his shooting to coach me a little, but seen him do so with some kids out for the first time.

Another dozen curmudgeons have helped me out with tips on stance, swing,etc.

Sure, one can run across a few bad examples, but by and large trap shooters are good folks....

[Andrew Wyatt]

it varies by region.

some of the locals are awfully hostile, expecially when i show up with my short barrelled pumpgun with sights.

[kudu]

I hate to say it, but around here the majority of trap shooters are pretty standoffish (tournament trap shooters). They like to be left in their own little world where they think trap guns are the only guns that should be allowed. There are the exeptions, but I would say 70% of the registered trap shooters that I have met are this way.

Skeet shooters have a tendency to stay with their own little groups also, but around here they are a bit more open minded.

Let's not even talk about sporting clay shooters. :neener:

As for myself, I am primarily a skeet shooter, but I know my way around a trap range and sporting clay range.

[djl4570]

I know what you're talking about and it depends on the shooter and the culture encouraged by the club management. There were resource wars at the club where I shoot until the current management came in. The trap and skeet shooters would't talk to each other and neither of them would talk to the rifle shooters. Some new management came in, somehow put a stop to the wars got most everyone to play nice together.

Some of these shooters are very competitive and don't have much use for recreational trap shooters. It lot like I feel about the once a year shooters who come to the range right before deer season. Most of these guys warm up to you a bit when you consistantly break 20 and don't stall the line during a round. It's frustrating if there's one or two people who are not paying attention, have to reminded to unload their guns during a change and have to be told be told it's their turn several times. It breaks up the rhythm of the line and annoys the competition shooters a lot more than the recreational shooters.

I came over from the rifle line and shot my first round of trap over Thanksgiving weekend of 2003 and hit seven birds. I shoot with an Winchester 97 32" full, the competitive shooters don't have much use for the gun but respect the coolness factor of using an old gun for fun. I hit 23 birds in February and am looking forward to a hat shoot.

How not to annoy the competitive shooters:
Get a vest for your gear and shells.
Don't stall the line, or call pull when it's not your turn.
Count to five so you know when to change and have your gun unloaded before the puller calls it. (Use the shells as they come out of the box in rows of five, the whole box will fit in a vest pocket.)

It's pretty simple really, kind of like rules for not annoying the rifle shooters.

[TrapperReady]

I voted "No". At least in my experience, the trapshooters are no more unfriendly than other competitors in other sports. When they're on the line shooting for $$$ or league scores, then they don't like distractions.

When shooting practice rounds or hanging out between rounds, I've found most to be friendly and good-natured. Locally, there are a couple of jerks. Guess what? They're jerks when they're not trapshooting. It's not the sport.

[pmbiker]

Lemme put it this way. I am a local in Vandalia, OH, the location of the ATA(for now), Ohio state and Grand American shoots. When I was a young man and working either the trap house loading or scoring, the majority of the guys kept to themselves. There were however enough grumpy old crochety bastards to sour me on the whole lot of em. Now that I am older(30) I frequently go up to the trap line to shoot a round of practice or just look around. There are still some grumps, but it just seems like they didn't like the young locals working the events.

But the worst by far are the wealthy ones who will move their over-priced trap gun down the rack from my vintage 870. They are better than everybody else, always have been. Just ask them.;)

[Erich]

I would say, "by definition."

[PJR]

What's the point to this poll?

Any subsection of the shooting sports has its share of jackasses. As TR said they are jackasses 24/7/365, not just when they are shooting. So why single out trap shooters?

Trap is a more individual game than skeet or sporting. You can shoot a lot of trap and have almost no interaction with other shooters. As a result, I believe trap attracts a greater percentage of people who prefer to keep to themselves either because they're not sociable or much more likely because they are shy.

I spent Wednesday and Thursday among hundreds of trap shooters and the only one that was grumpy was me because I couldn't stay any longer at the Grand.

Paul

[Erich]

I want to clarify my answer. I don't think they're in any way jerks, just grumpy old curmudgeons. Since I myself have shown tendencies toward this behavior since I was a young lad, my commenting on a man's curmudgeonliness in no way implies that I think he's a jerk.

[hillbilly]

Why single out trap shooters?

Well, trap is a lot like golf in history and cultural associations.

Like it or not, there is a whole, undeniable history of aristocratic snootiness that goes with trap, as there is with golf.


STEREOTYPE ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! here it comes.......

Heck, flintlock "fowling pieces" were by definition snooty, aristocrat guns because only snooty aristocrats could afford guns purpose made to shoot little tiny birds that didn't provide much meat per shot.

In fact, the peasants were the ones out there beating the bushes with sticks to drive the birds towards the landed gentry, waiting in the shade with their expensive fowling pieces.

Today, which range is more likely to be full of older, wealthy, aristocratic-wanna-bes?

The 300 yard rifle range or the trap range?

Just for example, near a local town, there is one "gun club" that is trap and skeet and sporting clays ONLY.

That's the entire gun club........no rifles, no handguns, no cowboy action, no IDPA, etc.

Guess which club all the rich, Sigma Chi frat boy legacies, and second sons of self-made millionaires belong to?

Guess which club the Ducks Unlimited rich guys belong to? Guess which club almost always has fat guys toting Perazzi O/Us walking around?

I'll give you a hint.

It's not the club that features the rifle range, the numerous pistol bays, the cowboy action shooting, and all the other "more lowly" or "overly aggressive" shooting sports.

One more example......Steven Spielberg shoots trap, as do countless other rabidly anti-gun celebrity millionaires.

It's the one aristocratic "shooting sport" that rabidly anti-gun ninnies can get down with, because they shoot their trap with other anti-gun celebrity millionaires and then sip champagne in the club house while shaking their heads about those knuckle-dragging hillbillies and apes who own and shoot rifles and handguns.

But that being said, I am going to shoot my first-ever round of sporting clays tomorrow with my one and only shotgun....a Remington 870 that some second-son of a self-made-millionaire pawned off for beer money after he won it at a local Ducks Unlimited raffle..........I got that sucker new in box for $169 from a pawn shop about a week after the annual DU banquet.

But first, I'll have to take the 20 inch slug barrel off it.

hillbilly

[TrapperReady]

Wow! If I wanted to listen to BS class-warfare junk, then I'd watch a Michael Moore film. :mad:

This is The High Road, not DU.

[hillbilly]

TrapperReady, I really don't think this is class warfare stuff.

Part of this is historical, verifiable truth.

Trap shooting, like most shotgun sports, has upper class aristocratic roots.

Just like golf does, just like tennis does.

Ever heard of King Henry VII's Ancient and Royal Tennis Club at Hampton Court Palace?

Ever seen the TV broadcast of Wimbledon wherein the players still bow or courtsey to the Royal Box before taking the court?

I don't think you'll ever find a Royal Box at a Rugby match..........I don't think you'll ever see NFL players bow to an aristocrat at the 50 yard line before kickofff.

Another example would be fox hunting, which my great uncles on both sides of the family participated in . Fox hunting also has aristocratic roots.

Of course, both my uncles who would have been considered "poor white trash" by real aristocratic fox hunters, were both attracted to fox hunting partly because of the aristocratic mystique associated with it.

None other than William Faulkner himself tried to bring back fox hunting in the 1950s because he felt it would be a gentrifying, gentlemanly sport that would civilize Mississippi unlike barbaric, uncouth football that was becoming so popular.

But getting back to shotgun sports.......Part of the alleged "stuffiness" associated with the shotgun sports, as well as golf, tennis, and fox hunting are holdovers from those aristocratic roots.

Now, just like golf, just like tennis, just like fox hunting, folks who aren't aristocrats can now participate in trap shooting these days, and many do.

That's what makes the movie "Happy Gilmore" funny a little. It's about a white trash hockey player who gets into golf and completely flouts the aristocratic, snooty codes of the game.

That's what makes "Caddy Shack" a funny movie....the underclass, working caddy trying to break into the artistocratic game of golf.

Same thing for Chevy Chase's character in that movie...he's the artistocrat who betrays the system. Rodney Dangerfield's character is the noveau riche guy who chooses to reject the aristocratic system and its pretensions completely....that's why he's such a fun character.


But I'm going to do sporting clays for the very first time ever tomorrow morning and I certainly don't qualify as an aristocrat.

That's the great thing about being alive today in the US. Lots of things that used to be available only the aristocracy are now open to every one....

But I grew up in the South, wherein many folks still to this day try to recreate the antebellum Southern aristocracy in all sorts of little ways: from country club memberships to social fraternities in college to shotgun-sports-only gun clubs that charge excessive membership dues to keep the hoi polloi out.

hillbilly

[PJR]

hillbilly:

Do you walk around lopsided carrying that chip on your shoulder?:rolleyes:

Paul

[Smoke]

I said "No"

Trap range is a little lonely here, more skeet shooters for some reason. IF you wander over to the trap range you'll be confronted by a guy or two that will talk your arm off because they ain't seen anybody else in weeks.

Smoke

[TrapperReady]

hillbilly - Your stereotypes totally ignore the fact that this is the USA, in 2004. I shoot a lot of trap. At our local club, you'd get laughed out of the clubhouse for even suggesting your "aristocratic roots" theory.

We've got a good number of guys who show up straight from the job-site, still wearing their Carharts, and they're completely welcome. We've also got farmers, computer programmers, doctors and nearly any other profession represented. Most of the trap shooters I run into are also pretty hard-core deer and/or varmint hunters. A couple, like me, even shoot NRA highpower.

Maybe its different in your part of the country. Maybe you're projecting your biases onto other shooters... something I'm sure you'd readily decry if it was coming the other way. It still sounds like class-warfare to me.

BTW, I've seen some gun clubs create shotgun-only ranges, mostly due to insurance and land issues. If people are using nothing larger than #7.5 shot, it's a heck of a lot easier to have a safe backstop and buffer area than it is if they're shooting rifles.

[mnrivrat]

LOL !

I was thinking that everybody that doesn't have to look up the word curmudgeon to find out what it means just might be in a league of their own !

:what:

[djl4570]

2 : a crusty, ill-tempered, and usually old man

I like curmudgeons. I hope to live long enough to be one some day.

[ysr_racer]

Does a bear @#$% in the woods? YES

[luxone]

I started shooting trap at my local club about a month ago . I've been using my 870 express to shoot with. The old guys have been nothing bet nice to me. One of them even let me shoot his Krieghoff.

I will also add that most of them are working class stiffs like me!

[ClarkEMyers]

Reminds me of distinguishing trap and skeet shooters in a drive by after the shoot is over:

If they're standing around the trunks of their cars with guns in their hands making adjustments and trading - trap

The skeet shooters would be grouped around a barbecue with beer in their hands.

I'd say yeah curmudgeonly but not bad people.

[earthworm]

I shot trap for the first time yesterday & was 1 shell short so I went to what I thought was my buddy's bag to grab one.It wasn't his bag or shells,
but the owner took no offense & after the round we all sat around & chatted.I of course repaid the shell I'd borrowed by mistake from him:seemed I'd miscounted what was in my pocket & I didn't use it. Key to me was this guy who was obviously a dedicated trap shooter & was cool about the whole thing.
If he's an example I'd say no.No doubt there are some snobs in the sport
but what group doesn't have a few?

[Sven]

I've found about 5% snobs and 95% GREAT guys (and gals) that will talk your ear off between sessions. Some of the best "shootin" I've done was shooting the breeze with these guys, hearing stories about THEIR grandparents, old jokes, etc.

The pattern I see at my club: 9AM, the early riser regular old guys show up and start making sassy comments and telling jokes. They head out by lunch. Around 2PM, usually a big group of new shooters arrive, and... yeah... they slow things down, but we all were beginners once, right?

I shoot Rifle, Pistol and Shotgun and have found Shotgun sports to be the most social of the three.

[dport]

I think some people need to look up the definition of class warfare, 'cause what hillbilly posted isn't it.

[TrapperReady]

dport - Since I brought it up, why don't you address me directly?

One common definition of class warfare is:

"Conflict between social or economic classes"

Specifically, I'm talking about hillbilly's description of the two gun clubs, and his attitude towards them. The stereotypes (which he himself acknowledged) were:


"rich, Sigma Chi frat boy legacies, and second sons of self-made millionaires "

"sip champagne in the club house while shaking their heads about those knuckle-dragging hillbillies and apes who own and shoot rifles and handguns"


In fact, when he defends his previous post, he references two movies which are almost entirely based on the idea of class warfare.

His posts contain numerous comments such as "2nd son of a self-made millionaire", "poor white trash", "aristocratic-wanna-bes" etc...

Read his posts again. He works in derogatory adjectives to nearly every description of someone who might belong to a club not like his.

I'd keep on going, but I've got to go count my money. :rolleyes:

[dport]

hillbilly posted a, self-admitted, stereotype. I wonder how much of it was a stereotype, because the true definition of stereotype is reaching a conclusion about a group of people with little or no experience interacting with that group. If you have interaction with a group of people then it is known as experience.

He did not engage in class warfare. In class warfare, as in all things 'warfare' one side must benefit at the expense of the other. He did not try to further one side at the expense of the other. He merely posted his observations/opinions, which was the purpose of the thread. Balance comes from people with opposite experiences.

While liberals yell stereotype or the new buzzword, profiling, when what is really happening is someone is using their personnal experience to form their views, conservatives yell class-warfare when someone makes an observation that isn't flattering to those with greater means. Usually neither is the case.


Back on topic, I have been to two skeet/trap ranges. One was dedicated solely to skeet and trap. They were very friendly to new shooters. The other had skeet/trap and rifle. They were more trap-centered. Snobby? A little. There were definitely what I would call sportsmen and not shooters.

[themic]

ah, but the true curmedgeons would not bother to post a reply, eh?

i've shot a lot of trap when i was younger, didn't blend in much. wearing sneakers and a baseball aht, shooting federal ammo, was about 16 years old or so.

felt like all the other shooteres were curmedgeons....

until i found myself ratning with them about some young whippersnapper who had come in and couldn't count to 5, or one who had no rhythym, or one who waited 30 friggin seconds to call the pull, or sweep everyone with his muzzle, or...

seriously, it messes up everybody. that's the main thrust of it.

its different from day to day, though. some days it just doesn't matter. lots of days it does.

[williamcrane]

The last time out (several weeks ago) after having a particularly bad day, an older gentleman took about 45 minutes of his time to give me some personal pointers on stance, mount, lead, etc. I was breaking almost every clay when he was done. I think he would have continued to give me pointers, but I had to go home. This was at the Bucks County Fish and Game Club, in PA.

I can't wait to go again and see if any of his teaching stuck!

[Berg01]

If by curmudgeons you mean folks who are helpful and supportive of other folks (like myself) who are trying to get halfway proficient in trapshooting, then yeah, they are curmudgeons; thank GOD for curmudgeons!

[Hawk]

Previous posters have already pointed out that curmudgeons can vary by region and circumstance.

When I lived in western NY State, lo those many years ago, I stumbled across a "trap only" club that had nothing but helpful friendly sorts. In fact, the social aspects, clam bakes, etc. turned my (then) wife into a "pro 2nd" person without her even noticing the process had begun. The club was "shotgun only" due to local regs; the dues were 35.00 a year, certainly not exclusionary. (Yeah, it was a long time ago, but 35.00 was cheap even then).

If you wanted elitism, though, you could find it easily enough among the handgunners. With licenses being handed out based on money, cronyism and political connections, the handgun "haves" form a type of nouveau aristocracy. Fortunately, such cliques were rare. For the most part, gunnies have been an overwhelmingly helpful and welcoming lot.

I’d be curious to know if "handgun aristocracies" occur with any regularity in present day "may issue" states.

[454c]

I don't think hillbilly was saying all people who shoot trap fit his explanation.They do not.It looked like he was trying to explain why there was more snobs in trap than other shooting areas.Snobs and grumpy folks are not the same thing to me.