[Zero]

I'd like to hear everyones opinion on carrying your own reloads for self-defense. Taking into account high-quality reloads using readily available components.

[Don of Kalifornia]

Don't, ever use reloads for self protection, as if it has any variation from a store bought load, attorneys, and da, will claim you made up special loads, to inflict extra injury or death. The only loads I use for protection are the same as approved by our local police dept. or sheriff.

Don of Kalifornia

[Zero]

I've heard people make this statement in the past, although I don't know how much weight it holds. For example, what aspect of a handloaded round would make it more or less lethal, to the point of being malicious on the part of the loader. More velocity? Common commercial ammunition runs the full gamut of velocity and terminal ballistics. Does this mean that if i use lets say a Speer Gold Dot round to defend my life, versus a Winchester white box FMJ, should I be held liable because the Gold Dot was faster and a hollow-point that expanded upon impact? When I say handloads for self-defense I mean standard components, not basement engineered exploding bullets made out of some exotic metal.

[Zero]

Your case and experience may be different than for the rest of us. I do not live in a state with repressive restrictions on the right to defend my life.

[MonkeyMan]

I've seen this bandied about on several different forums and have yet to see any legal citation where it was used in either the prosecution of the defense side of the case. My thoughts on this are:

If the shoot is justified then it really doesn't matter what ammunition is used. If it's not justified then it really doesn't matter either.

If I'm concerned enough about my safety and the safety of my family to invest the time and resources into developing a load that is both reliable and accurate in MY pistol then that also carries the additional benefit of safety to non-targets.

My $.02 YMMV.

[Quantrill]

You can carry a round (combination of bullet,primer,case and powder) that is unavailable commercially. Quantrill

[Smoke]

I recently read a article on the handload = trouble in court theory.

The writers and a judge that was researching the same question had never found a court case where the ammo used came into a serious argument. Handload or commercially produced.

I think this is an urban legend that won't die.

If you can find the court case to prove me wrong; I would love to see it.

[Gewehr98]

I don't see it being a deciding factor in a criminal court, as far as the justifieable shooting in self-defense.

But we've all seen the follow-up civil court trial afterwards, where the family of the deceased or wounded gets their day. That's what would scare me most about using handloads for defense.

[PALongbow]

Everytime this debate comes around the same argument is made not to use handloaded ammo for defense. In my opinion most termed "commercial defense loads" are much more potent than my Hornday XTP/H110 powder 357 mag handloaded ammunition.

Ron

[PaulS]

Well, again the debate -

Here is my take on it - and my defense -should I ever need one.

I use handloads for hunting because they are more accurate than factory ammo. My handloads approximate CCI Lawman ammo in velocity and bullet selection. If I find it necessary to defend myself I want to make sure that I hit what I am aiming at and not some innocent by-stander. I use the most accurate ammo at my disposal - MY OWN. The purpose of using deadly force in self protection is to save lives by killing the perpetrator without endangering any innocents. I can do that best when I use the loads that I am familiar with and most accurate in my weapon.
If you give up those things that give you confidence in your ability to dispatch a perp then you lose your confidence in your ability to use deadly force. If you are using deadly force you are doing so to prevent greivous harm to yourself or others. Do the job right, confidently and to the best of your ability.

PaulS

[jem375]

I use reloads for my 357 mag, and my 45 ACP for defense purposes......like PaulS states, he uses the most accurate loads he has, and they are his reloads, just like mine.........
I hope I am on a jury if a case ever comes up regarding a shooting with reloads instead of commercial ammo, I don't think it ever will, but, you never can tell..........

[Mal H]

I doubt that the subject of reloads vs commercial ammo would even come up in court unless you mentioned it to the police in a proud manner. "Oh, I almost forgot to tell you officer. I used my special Super-Devastator reloads to shoot the perp. Thought you might want to know." You used a gun, period. That fact is enough to say that deadly force was required to stop the threat to you or your family. Assuming you use standard components, there is no reason to believe you were lying in wait to test them on an unsuspecting victim. It is always assumed that bullets are deadly, whether they are from Federal or Dillon.

[Sidetracker]

With the quality factory loads available today why take the chance that some lawyer could make a issue of it in civil court? Odds are I'll never need to use my gun and even if I did, the ammo would probably not become a issue. BUT, with juries handing out millions for stupid reasons, I choose to not take the chance.

[Blackcloud6]

From what I've always read, heard , been told, the real reason not to use reloads is reliability. Handloads on the average have less reliability than factory, so "they" say. I personally would stick with factory loads for self defense.

If you do use reloads, use your own reloads as only the reloader knows what his quality standards are.

[trapshooter]

I think it all boils down to what Blackcloud6 just said.

Regarding factory ammo, for SD carry I would stick to the higher -end stuff, though, and not carry 'economy' ammo. By higher-end, I mean Federal PD, WW silvertips, Rem Golden Saber, etc. Any of this stuff will do the job.

OTOH, I have no particular problem with carrying my own loads. Again, as Blackcloud6 says, QC is my problem, but I also get the ability to fine tune the load for my handguns, getting more consistency than with factory ammo. The potential legal issues don't really concern me, as you have to be around to worry about court, and since you'll end up in court anyway if you live, it's a shrug.

[BigG]

I would agree with Blackcloud. I would be scared the thing wouldn't go off or otherwise mal.

The legal thing is one the Massad Ayoob has made a career out of since the 70s. I don't think it holds water, either. About the court learning you used reloads? You have the right to remain silent (or at least not volunteer potentially damaging info). ;)

[Mal H]

BigG, I agree with Blackcloud6 also and use only factory ammo in my carry guns precisely because of the extremely small probablity of failure. I still believe that reloads vs factory is a non-issue as far as legal matters go.

[braindead0]

I agree with previous comment on Civil case. Fact is you can make reloads that are more powerful than factory ammunition (assuming you know your gun! ;-). I'd love to see .357 170gr HP pushed to 1600fps in factory ammo, but It's perhaps a wee bit beyond SAAMI.. I remember some pretty harsh 325gr .44 mag loads a friend was experimenting with.


Many handloaders tinker with loads and push the performance beyond the specs. If you were to use something like that for SD, with the right jury (full of ninnies)....you'd lose big.

I use factory ammo for SD.. Mostly because I reload for economy and very specific performance (IDPA). I do however have some pretty nice SD loads ;-)

[Zero]

Deadly force is deadly force, however it's applied. The topic is standard loads, using standard components. I don't think this can be considered an issue. Here is an example.
Scenario #1 Intruder breaks into home intent on murder, I shoot him with my 9mm 115gr JHP going 1150 FPS.
Scenario #2 Same intruder breaks in, with same intent, I shoot with my .45 ACP 230 Gr JHP going 850 FPS.
Scenario #3 Again same intruder breaks in, same intent, I shoot with my .30-06 because 180gr bullet going 2750 FPS. Now here is a wide range of bullet weights and velocities. Each one arguably capable of inflicting a fatal wound. With the .30-06 clearly the most powerful of the 3. Would I be in trouble with some arbitrary jury becuase I happened to use one firearm over another?

[admiral]

if you were to run the criminal over with your car, would tire brand be an issue?

[BigG]

if you were to run the criminal over with your car, would tire brand be an issue?
With all due respect, court decisions (or legality if you will) often do not relate very well to RIGHT and WRONG, here in the US at least.

[12.7x99mm]

I don't ever use reloads for self protection. Reliability is your friend.

[Zero]

Sorry, but my reloads are more reliable than commercial ammo!

[popbang]

Reliablilty is not issue with handloaded ammunition if loaded properly. Quite to the contrary with handloads you probably shoot more of your actual carry loads, so you should have better reliablity of the load. Handloads can be more consitant then factory loads.

[Sam]

My reloads are "commercial" ammo. BATF says so and taxes them accordingly. OUCH!

Sam

[kidcoltoutlaw]

if you carry a 357 SIG i think you should carry handloads.every time i load and unload the bullet seats deeper in the case.i don't mean just a little either.one very good way to blow you own head off.i use slow burning powder it fills the case and the bullet can not seat deeper.shoot the factor loads that get seated deeper and the guy beside you will sue you because of the gun parts in his face.

[tex_n_cal]

I read Masaad Ayoob's original article in Handloader claiming that he had seen attorneys try to make an issue out of use of handloaded ammo. He claimed it was a nightmare in court.

Ayoob did allow that if you loaded down, like say loading a .44 mag to 1200 fps or so, you could actually turn the argument to advantage, by saying the gun was too hard to control with hot loads, and you felt it was powerful enough as is.

Remember, you shoot bad guys to stop serious crimes, not to make social statements. Your only aim is to stop the crime. Whether or not he dies is a non-issue at the moment you shoot.

On the flip side of the coin, Sheriff Jim Wilson has reportedly done a study, and could find no case where it actually became an issue. I didn't read his article, though, but I did read Ayoob's.

As a practical matter, though, for defensive use, do you want reused cases, or brand new? It doesn't much matter in a revolver, but it does in the auto. Reloaded cases, even those carefully loaded, can have burrs or unoticed problems that harm reliability at the worst possible time.

I do keep Federal Hydra-Shoks in my full size .45's. They are known to work well, and are reliable and accurate, so I don't think I'm giving up anything. My Colt Defender so far seems to run best with my handloads, so if I CCW it I may just carry accordingly.

[Zero]

Attorneys will try to make an issue out of what shoes you were wearing!

[Mal H]

... and anyone who enters a trial without a lawyer who is well aware that reloads may be brought up as an issue and who doesn't have a good convincing response is being irresponsible to themselves.

[ambidextrous1]

I carry reloads, because I train with them, and because they are the most accurate cartridges I have found.

Reliability is not an issue with my loads; in fact, I have experienced more faulty ammo in commercial stuff than I have in my own loads - in the past 10 years. I'll admit that this hasn't always been true, but I am currently loading with the Dillon 650, and hand check EVERY round with a cartridge gauge, checking at the same time for high primers. I can check 1000 rounds of .45 ACP in this manner in about 15 minutes. If I have more than 1000 rounds to check, I do it in two sessions or more.

;)

[WESHOOT2]

Just do as I did.............because

[Gary H]

If you participate in some form of competition, or you hunt, then it would be natural to use the ammunition that is used for competition/practice. Your primary use of this ammunition is for practice. You practice to be competitive. Perhaps you shoot twelve thousand rounds down range a year. Reloading allows you to control cost and performance. Two in a guy that broke into your house and was assailing you with a knife would be one round in the perp for every six-thousand shot for competition. It would be hard to make the case that you were developing killer loads and going out looking for test subjects. This would be an argument for shooting IDPA without regards to getting the PF down to whatever. Shoot what you will carry should you decide to use your own. It cost more, HP vs. lead and it would be harder to control.. as in higher PF, but that would be a reasonable price to pay for using your own ammunition for self-defense. If you compete using your own, but the load and bullet differ from the one used to shoot the perp, then it is obvious that you had something else in mind when loading your self-defense ammo. Duhhh... but it would give the other side some room to move in civil court.

[Valkman]

Handloads on the average have less reliability than factory, so "they" say. I personally would stick with factory loads for self defense.

No one that reloads would ever say that. My reloads are certainly as reliable as factory ammo. I heard all this carry reload stuff before and at first believed it - when I lived in Commiefornia. There they probably would hammer you for anything they could find, although again there's that little thing that no one can find a case where it's happened.

The more I think about it, I think that if your shooting is justified, it doesn't matter what kind of ammo you're carrying. And if it's not you've got way bigger problems than your ammo.

[g56]

Mas Ayoob makes the point about factory loads from time to time, while some my dismiss him, he is the expert witness most often used by defense attorneys in unjustified criminal charges or civil actions filed against the shooter.

It kind of depends on this, if it's a righteous shooting, Mas can get you out of this, the problem is...can you afford the best attorneys and the expert witnesses necessary? Most people can't! :rolleyes:

[Mannlicher]

If I can make a better load, I carry it. The old saw about handloads bringing on hellfire from the DA remains apocryphal.
I use Factory HydroShocks in my semi autos, because I can't really load a better performing round, but in Revolvers, I usually carry my own loads.

[BluesBear]

The subject of my handloads was never broght up at my trial.
The only people who asked anything about it at all were the officers on the scene. And their only questions were asked in private, and consisted of, "What was it?" and "Where can we get some?"

[Ben Shepherd]

I carry my hadloads. Why?

Out of more than 50,000 handloads I've had exactly 2 FTF's. One I screwed up and didn't have the primer fully seated. The first hammer fall seated it far enough that the second fall set it off fine.

The other one I hadn't inspected the primer close enough. It had no compound, just an anvil and a cup.

Both of these were practice ammo loaded on a progressive. I load carry/hunting rounds on a single stage, with a close inspection at EVERY step.

I can load the slug I want to the exact velocity I want for that specific gun. And with careful powder selection, tune recoil to some degree.

I can beat factory loads in the accuracy dept 98% of the time.

So far with commercial ammo, I've gotten primers in upside down on 2 occasions, crushed/wrinkled case mouths several times. I've even pulled them down to check, and occasionally I'll find the powder charge isn't very consistant.

Have I screwed up a primer or case mouth? You bet, several times. But I've never had one of mine that's visibly messed up get past QC.

[The Rabbi]

I have to agree with Monkey Man. If the shooting was good then the load doesnt matter. If it was bad then it still doesnt matter. Any DA or attorney would have to first educate the jury on what reloading is, what bullet weight and type means, what powder type and load mean and so on. I can see the jury's eyes glazing over. It is a no-win for the prosecution.
Second, as pointed out, there has never been a case where this was a factor.
Third, most reloaders I know are very careful to pick the best components that match their particular gun and their particular style of shooting. It is the major reason to reload other than cost. To say that the result of that is something less reliable than factory is ludicrous. Sure, some people are careless reloaders but the same people probably run their 1911's for 1000 rounds between cleanings.
Finally, as mentioned, the whole thing seems to have been started by Ayoob without any basis. It was certainly a career-enhancing move to mention a concern that others hadnt thought of and would be quoted often, but that doesnt make it true. He has also been caught in some other whoppers.
Again, bottom line here is something often quoted: do what works best for you.

[Dave R]

I carry reloads because that's what I practice with.

I think it is highly unlikely that anyone other than me (or possibly my attorney) will know I used reloads, in the unfortunate event that I would ever have to shoot in a self-defense situation.

There will be a commercial case on the floor. There will be a commercial bullet at the other end. The velocity and the performance of the bullet will be very close/identical to factory performance. The powder residue may very well be the same powder used by the manufacturer.

How will anyone determine whether I pulled the lever on the press, rather than someone at a factory?

[griz]

Reloaded cases, even those carefully loaded, can have burrs or unoticed

You can handload with new cases if that worries you. If you do you still need to inspect the case. I saw a brand new shiney case that had no flash hole and a couple others with dinged up mouths. A once fired case can not have the flash hole problem and a weak spot in the brass should have showed up on the first shot.

That said I would not use a case fired more than twice or a case that wasn't well inspected.

[twolf]

In a court of law, it does not matter what you can prove. It matters what the jury believes. If you ever do use a weapon for self defense, they will take that weapon and in several states if you modify the trigger, it is illegal for carry, whether by putting a trigger shoe or by adjusting the trigger pull. While they are at it, they will check your ammunition.

You shoot to stop, do not shoot to kill or wound, both shows intent. Intent is bad. However, they can also show intent if you use ammunition that is not readily available to the public. If they check your reloads and find them to be "hot", they can prove intent. Also, any DA or CA can charge you with manslaughter and have a jury decide your fate. If a panel of 12 citizens hear that you was loading your own rounds, they could take that one of two ways. Me, I do not want that 50% chance. I use Corbon and Winchester Silver Tip. Both of which are used by LE agencies.

To the individual that has never heard of the use of relaods being used in a trial as intent, up until 10 years ago, firearm manufacturers weren't held liable for what idiots did with their weapons, Now they are! Do you want to be the first.

[Steve in PA]

Currently I am required to carry "factory" duty loads, but when I retire I will be carrying my reloads.

There is not one.....repeat not one civil or criminal case where factory/reloads has come in to play.

If you have a reliability problem with your reloads, then you are doing something wrong.

As stated, self defense is self defense. If I am justified in using deadly force to protect my life or that of another it doesn't matter if I use my fists, a handgun or a bazooka.

Why would I be liable for putting together a round that someone else can do commercially??

This topic was brough up on GT and you can read all about it here....

www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=276925

[grendelbane]

Well, it looks like things are backwards in the big cities! Here in the country you are more likely to have problems because you chose to use that fancy store bought ammunition.

The prosecuting attorney is likely to make such statements as, "No, an 158 grain cast SWC over 15 grains of 2400 was not good enough for the defendant to use. It was good enough for his father, and his father before him, but the defendant had to buy fancy store bought ammunition!"

[Steve in PA]

And the gun makers have been winning the lawsuits.

Unless the gunmaker made a defective product, they can not be held liable for a legal product, used illegally.

Beretta just won a major lawsuit brought against them because, if I remember correctly, a family sued Beretta because they did not have a loaded chamber indicator (they do, so this claim amazed me) and someone got shot with the gun, claimng they didn't know it was loaded. DUH.

Check it before you handle it, idiot.

[Okiecruffler]

I currently carry Corbons in my 357 and the Wife carries Federal in her's, but I have carried my reloads up until very recently. I'm another who doesn't buy into the legal aspect, but I am in Oklahoma, where we treat criminals like criminals, at least until they get into the court system. When I was loading my carry ammo, I carefully inspected every component, case, primer and bullet. Carefully weighed each charge. Best thing about carrying your own is if you carry a snubby like I do you can taylor your load to shoot to POA. I've been reloading now for over 20 years and the only FTF's I've ever had was a few years back when I got ahold of some bad shotgun primers. Out of 100 rds I had 37 that failed to go boom. Never did figure that one out.

[The Rabbi]

In a court of law, it does not matter what you can prove. It matters what the jury believes. If you ever do use a weapon for self defense, they will take that weapon and in several states if you modify the trigger, it is illegal for carry, whether by putting a trigger shoe or by adjusting the trigger pull. While they are at it, they will check your ammunition.

Can you name states that prohibit modification of a weapon for carry? I find it hard to imagine that what you say is true, esp since the mods you mention are very commonly done.
I have yet to hear reliable stories of anyone having to defend their ammo choice. What will they check your ammo for? Almost everyone who reloads uses factory components, no different from what the ammo makers use. If I load a Hornady XTP, how is that different from buying a loaded round with Hornady XTP in it? Try explaining that one to a jury.

No, the law here is that one uses his weapon to neutralize a threat of death of bodily harm to himself or another. Once that threat is neutralized he is not authorized to use his weapon. Before that threat is neiutralized he is authorized to use it. There is no requirement here for a warning shot, a debilitating shot or any other kind of shot. All the defendant has to do is convince the jury that he reasonably was in fear and acted solely to neutralize the threat.
Again, those propounding the "DA will use this against you" had better put up some evidence from the real world.

[steveno]

at some point in time everybody will have a "bad" reload that will cuase a problem and while a person has loaded several thousand or more rounds before this happened. keep in mind that Federal and others load several million rounds of the same caliber without a problem. I think the simple issue is overall quality in the long run. I keep Federal factorys in the 45 acp and 9 mm. I use winchester factory silvertips in the 41 mag.

[grendelbane]

Can you name states that prohibit modification of a weapon for carry?

My CCW today was a Caspian framed, Colt slided .38 Super I assembled last month. I suppose I could maintain that I was the original manufacturer, and that there were no modifications.

The magazine was loaded with my favourite .38 Super load.

This is an 147 grain JHP over a moderate dose of Power Pistol.

It would be kind of hard for a prosecutor to maintain I had increased the lethality, as my handloads are some what milder than the only 147 grain .38 Super factory loads I know of.

A prosecutor might try and make an issue of both the weapon and the ammunition. He, (or she), might also make an issue of the fact that my favourite 18th century Scottish philosoper-economist is Adam Smith, or that I dislike the graduated rate income tax.

I enjoy reading the Sharpe novels by Bernard Cornwell. A prosecutor could have a field day with this.:what:

Life is too short to try and fit myself into some one else's notions of what is proper and what is not. I do my best to obey actual laws, and that should be enough.

[twolf]

The DA needs Ability, Opportunity, and Intent, to prove their case. The fact that you used anything other than factory ammo could prove Intent. If you can't find "reliable" factory ammo, let me know, their is a whole list of them.

Modifying the trigger to lighten the pull is a modification that several states do not allow. In fact, several manufacturers make lighter trigger disconnects but they flat out state that they should not be used for carry use because they are too light of a trigger pull. Many law enforcement agencies are now requiring their officers to carry DAO weapons, if they are gonna carry off-duty or concealed carry.

Steve in PA, until the last three years, manufacturers were losing and losing bad. The reason they have started winning is because of the Bush Administration. If that idiot Kerry gets into office, it won't last. Smith & Wesson, Colt and Beretta have all lost law suits. In fact, S&W almost had to close their doors because of the suit.

Also, if the government did not care what ammo you used, you could still buy Black Talons!

[JuniorG]

[FFL06 = $30
Just do as I did.............because

Ditto, did it years ago.
I prefer factory ammo.
MY factory ammo.

Somebody comes in here and we have to start shooting we won't call the local yocals we'll call the feds in.

My main concern is... that if anyone has to use our ammo for self defense it performs well, thats the way its made.

[Double Naught Spy]

g56, so what if Ayoob is the expert witness? He has made the claim about handloads for years, along with other Ayoobian myths, but has NEVER documented a case where handloads were an issue.

Not only has he not documented any, nobody here seems to know of actual cases. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65021&highlight=ayoobian

Quite surprisingly, he seems to have had a significant change of heart and noted that if the DA ever goes after the type of gun or ammo used, then the DA has no real case in regard to the actual shooting incident.

Additionally lacking has been reports of factory loads coming under fire. In this change of heart, Ayoob noted TWO incidents where the DAs went after cops and factory ammo selection. So his notion of using was the cops use (supposedly justifies the ammo type used for a non-leo) and to use factory ammo over handloads died. By count, he has two more documented cases of DAs going after factory ammo than handload ammo.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89289&highlight=ayoobian

[ezypikns]

which will let me know what the approved weapons and ammunition are for my local police department? Of couse the simple thing to do would be to contact them, but I'm not sure what kind of a reception I'd get.

[twolf]

Double naught,

The difference is people pay him for his opinion and he is published on self defense concerns, he owns his own self defense school and he is a police officer. If you want to attack someone's character, I'd find someone other than Ayoob.

[David4516]

I use my own handloads in both of my 2 carry guns...

One of the main reasons is caliber. It's hard to find good Factory JHP ammo in both calibers, and the ammo that is out there is loaded down. I'll probably get flamed a bit for this, but my calibers are:

9mm Makarov (aka 9X18)

.25 ACP

I don't really "like" these rounds, but the guns they are chambered in are very reliable (I carry a Makarov and a Beretta Jetfire), and I believe that reliability is the #1 most important thing in a carry pistol...

Thats the second reason I carry handloads... they are reliable, or mine are at least. I've loaded a few thousand rounds now (most for the Makarov), and have yet to have a "dud".

I dout that my handloads would be an issue in court. While it's true that my loads are considerably "hotter" than factory loads in these calibers, they are still weaker than most rounds used by LEOs. It will be hard for somebody to argue that my rounds are "super-duper killer rounds" when the local cops carry somthing bigger...

Edited to add:

I like Hornady XTPs, but the factory Hornady ammo is a bit slow. For example, Factory 9mm Mak is about 950 FPS with the 95 gr XTP. I load the same bullet in my handloads to about 1050 FPS. I also use the XTP (35gr) in the .25, and Bullseye powder with both.

[Ryder]

Doesn't matter to me. Handloads are not illegal and I'll shoot whatever my gun happens to be loaded with. I buy ammo at the corner gas station and I handload.

Proof of innocence is not the defendant's burden. Any claim that my ammo was handloaded to inflict more damage simply can not be proved. If I was focused on wanting to inflict excessive damage on the target I would just purchase ammo off the shelf. Consider the huge variety of +P and extra power premium hunting ammo choices available.

I've had plenty of factory ammo malfunctions. I consider my handloads more dependable and wouldn't hesitate to use them in a life threatening situation. I generally use newish brass for carry.

Speaking of custom triggers. I recall reading of a case where the defendant was found not guilty of murder when it was brought to light that his trigger was modified for a light release. It served as proof that the discharge was unintentional. I wouldn't count on that one though since this guy was a cop but it is not illegal here and if you don't know your own limitations the gunsmiths have you covered since they wont do a 2 pound trigger job on a defense gun due to liability anyway to my knowledge.

A civil problem? Fear of bonified idiots doesn't run my life. They've already done their best to ruin it with little effect. :D

[halvey]

Pro's & Con's of Carrying your Reloads People will argue about it forever on THR.

No suprise this thread was resurrected from the dead...

[HankB]

twolf:Modifying the trigger to lighten the pull is a modification that several states do not allow. So civilian gunsmithing is prohibited in some states? :confused:

WHICH states? Specifically?

I know some police departments prohibit all modifications to sidearms issued to their officers, but I'd really like to see a citation for a law that explicity prohibits and explicity criminalizes trigger modifications for civilian.

As far as ammo choice is concerned, they can try to make an issue of ANYTHING.

Use a handload - you cooked up super deadly killer ammo.

Use what the cops use - you're a cop wannabe.

Use FMJ - you're a military wannabe.

Use hollowpoint commercial - and you're using ammo banned by the Geneva Convention or Hague Accords.

Use promotional ammo from Wal Mart - you want to kill people on the cheap.

Use premium ammo from a gunshop - you want exotic killer ammo.

Use a softpoint - that's hunting ammo, except you were hunting PEOPLE!

etc. etc.

[foggybottomboys]

What do you see when you look at a round of factory ammunition. Most likely it's the bullet, case, and primer. Can you tell if the case has a flash hole? Nope. Can you tell how much powder is in it? Nope. Can you tell if the primer has all of it's components? Nope again. I don't have a problem carrying my reloads for self defense because I know each component that went into the round, and I also know the person that assembled it. I also maintain loading manual information, and the chrono slips. And, I've been loading longer than the people I work with have been alive! All of this boils down to is personal preference and attention to detail.