Shortest legal barrel for a shotgun?


PDA






DHart
August 12, 2004, 10:19 PM
I have a Mossberg 500 Persuader which has an 18.5" barrel. The magazine tube is about 3" shorter than the barrel and I was wondering if I could legally cut back the barrel length to any degree... anyone know how far I can go and still keep the shotgun legal?

If you enjoyed reading about "Shortest legal barrel for a shotgun?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
lycanthrope
August 12, 2004, 10:22 PM
At least in PA....you can cut it back half an inch......

pauli
August 12, 2004, 10:24 PM
without going through sbs/aow nightmares with the atf, 18" is the federal law for shotgun barrels (though, i suppose it MIGHT be 16" for a rifled slug barrel).

but i think the shotgun guys could tell you better than the rifle guys ;)

MrMurphy
August 12, 2004, 10:26 PM
18.5" is the accepted standard, the federal limit is 18". Remember Randy Weaver of Ruby Ridge got in trouble for trimming shotgun barrels just a bit tooo much. 1/10th of an inch under 18" will get you federal jail time. Why tempt fate and the ATF guy screwing up his measuring tape... stick with 18.5".


With a Class III NFA license you can get a short barreled shotgun (14") but it's a major pain in the butt for very little actual gain.

Onmilo
August 12, 2004, 10:35 PM
Always cut a shotgun or rifle barrel at least one quarter to one half inch longer than the legal minimum.
ATF uses a "Precision" metal bar to measure barrel length.
It is dropped down the questioned barrel to rest against the closed bolt.
If so much as a millimeter of that bar extends from the muzzle you're facing an immediate felony charge.
Play it safe.

DHart
August 12, 2004, 10:41 PM
Well... ok, that shoots that idea all to hell! :rolleyes: Now I really like the "short" 18.5" barrel on my Persuader! ;) Thanks for the info. :cool:

Col. Mustard
August 12, 2004, 10:48 PM
The same law (National Firearms Act of 1934) which requires the 18" barrel also requires an overall length of 26". So don't plan on trimming the other end, either.

MeekandMild
August 12, 2004, 10:50 PM
So what is the minimum length in Canada, eh? I have heard that in spite of their otherwise Draconian laws they allow short barreled shotguns.

simmonsguns
August 12, 2004, 11:03 PM
interesting side bar,moss. from factory has a pistol grip,rem. does not.short barreled moss. with pistol grip is termed "any other weapon" by the kind people of the atf.rem. with short barrel and non factory pistol grip is a short barreled shotgun.what is the difference? rem. is $200.00 tax stamp and mindless paper work,moss is $50.00 tax stamp and same paper work.just because the people at moss. offer the factory pistol grip.this also counts for the 9 inch barrel moss. i build for use as a three shot breaching or entry shot gun,with vertical foregrip(keep an eye on where your thumb is with these)mock ups test guns help when its 3 o'clock in the am.

zeke
August 13, 2004, 07:04 AM
In Wisconsin, it is 18 inchers for the tube, there is also a minimum overall length. If a shorter overall length is desired than a pump with 18 inch tube , while still having a butt stock, sxs or over and unders have shorter over all lengths with the minimum length barrels, due too a shorter action type.

Course ya only get 2 shots, till having to reload. A sxs with 20 inch tubes, is usually shorter than a pump with 18.5 in tube.

PMDW
August 13, 2004, 03:46 PM
With a Class III NFA license you can get a short barreled shotgun (14") but it's a major pain in the butt for very little actual gain.

If you get a Class III license, you had better plan on selling NFA items full time, or you get in trouble. If you want to own a short barreled shotgun (SBS) you do not need any license or permit. Read this, but substitute "machine gun" with "SBS", and ignore the part about the whole 1986 thing, that only applies to MGs.

http://www.vtgunsmiths.com/arms/caniown.html

djl4570
August 13, 2004, 11:39 PM
Randy Weaver knew about the 18" limit on the shotgun barrels, they got him on the 26" overall length. I think this is documented in Weaver's book. The overall length was in part a response to Clyde Barrow's "Whipit" shotgun.

There's no point in trimming the barrel back any. If there is ever a question about it that extra half inch prevents nitpicking.

DHart
August 13, 2004, 11:58 PM
I appreciate the replies! My Persuader is just great at 18.5". :cool:

carpettbaggerr
August 14, 2004, 12:53 AM
though, i suppose it MIGHT be 16" for a rifled slug barrel Nope. Still a shotgun --NOT a 12 gauge rifle.
18 in. minimum.

sendec
August 14, 2004, 06:25 PM
I did'nt think a 14 inch barrel had much to offer over an 18....until I tried one. They are wicked quick handling, highly manuverable and if you have a serious realistic need for a defensive shotgun are probably worth the paperwork hassle. Getting out of vehicles and moving thru tight areas are where they shine brightest.

I think that I would prefer a shorter gun with normal capacity over a longer gun with an extended tube.

Texian Pistolero
August 14, 2004, 07:06 PM
Remember, in the effort to get ever shorter, every inch trimmed gives up valuable VELOCITY. (No, I don't have the data.)

There have been accounts of ultra chopped shotguns failing to stop or even hurt the other guy, when factors such as heavy winter coat, extra range, sumo belly, add up.

The shotgun doesn't have a lot of velocity to start with and the projos are aerodynamically challenged. You probably don't want one under 18 inches.


I have a Remy 18 1/2, and it is fine for condo combat.

SOT_II
August 14, 2004, 08:54 PM
There is NO SUCH thing as a $50 tax stamp/transfer tax. You are confusing two VERY different issues and not listing the prices correctly.

1. There is a $200 MAKING tax to build a SBS by an individual. You fill out the paperwork, pay the tax, get the stamp (actually a little leter). and you build your SBS. There is a $200 transfer tax with the SBS.

2. There is a $200 making tax for an AOW (by an individual) and a $5 TRANSFER tax for an AOW. Any any other weapon is a shotgun that has NEVER had a sholder stock and is shot in length. If the shotgun comes from the factory with a pistolgrip and then is cut, it's an AOW with a $5 transfer tax.


is $200.00 tax stamp and mindless paper work,moss is $50.00 tax stamp and same paper work.just because the people at moss. offer the factory pistol grip.this also counts for the 9 inch barrel moss.

SOT_II
August 14, 2004, 08:57 PM
"The shotgun doesn't have a lot of velocity to start with and the projos are aerodynamically challenged. You probably don't want one under 18 inches. "

doesn't have a lot of velocity compared to what? A shotgun runs supersonic, generates loads of energy at the muzzle even in a very short barrel.

Aerodynamics won't paly into home defense at all.

Coronach
August 14, 2004, 10:56 PM
I dunno.

A 18.5" HD gun with NO tube extensions and no gee-whiz accessories seems to handle pretty good to me. I appreciate all the doodads my department put on our cruiser guns, but the only really necessary one I think is the Surefire light. Everything else is a nice-to-have...and all those nice-to-haves do come at the expense of weight and handling speed.

A bone stock 18.5" 870 is pretty darned handy. Very fast, and with the advantage of 4.5 more inches of sight radius (eyeball to bead) over a 14" bbl gun.

JMO,
Mike

Snaps
August 18, 2004, 06:26 PM
Is the 18 the total barrel length or the exposed barrel length? I've never been able to get a clear answer on that.

djl4570
August 18, 2004, 06:56 PM
The length of the barrel is measured from the muzzle to the breechface with the bolt closed.

dsb
August 20, 2004, 02:16 PM
MeekandMild

So what is the minimum length in Canada, eh? I have heard that in spite of their otherwise Draconian laws they allow short barrelled shotguns.

The rules here for length are somewhat strange - short barrelled shotties are legal, but only if they are manual actions (pump, break, whatever - just not semi-auto) and are factory stock. You can't cut down a bbl or a stock, because that magically turns it into a killing machine. :rolleyes:

If you can find a factory-stock pump shotgun with a short bbl, you are fine. It is subject to fewer restrictions than a handgun. :rolleyes:

I know that a famed Norinco source up here that carries a shorty 12 ga. with a 14 in. bbl.

1911Tuner
August 20, 2004, 02:37 PM
Unless I'm badly mistaken,or something has changed since 1985...
the minimum lengths for a shotgun is 18" barrel and 28" overall.
16" barrel for rifles, and 26" overall.

And it doesn't take a millimeter to get you a vacation at Club Fed. They'll gladly split hairs if they want to charge you badly enough. .025 inch will do the trick. (That's twenty-five thousandths.) Play it safe and cut a shotgun barrel NO SHORTER than 18.1 inches...and 18.25 is better.

Luck!

Tuner

Dead
August 23, 2004, 08:55 PM
Who says they wouldnt shave that last bit of the barrel off at some area in it to get it under the legal limit??? I would not put it past the gov to do it even if the barrel is 18.05 inch on a shotgun.

Besides whats the deal with a "short-barreled" shotgun anyway, shouldnt matter if the barrel is 20 feet long, or 1/2inch long., you should beable to own it no questions asked.

loandr.
August 25, 2004, 03:40 PM
Actual OAL is 29 inches Was it devo that said "Whippet Good"...whippet :-)

loandr.
August 25, 2004, 03:57 PM
pic troubles if some one would like to help or see simply emaill me. back stock cut and brass plate added shoulder harness that swivels at the hip for CCW :-) Just seems back end pic is to large. sorry russncin2001@yahoo.com
Loandr.


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1125652


their we go :-)

loandr.
August 25, 2004, 03:59 PM
My newest toy....also $5 stamp

loandr.
August 25, 2004, 04:08 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1125665


Last teaser I promise :-)
Loandr.

If you enjoyed reading about "Shortest legal barrel for a shotgun?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!