I may vote for Bush but...


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ed dixon
August 13, 2004, 01:03 AM
Okay, you're voting for Bush, but without enthusiasm. What sticks in your craw the most about his policies, character, abilities, whatever?

I'll start off with something very far from geo-political strategies. When I saw the tape of him wiping his eyeglasses on a woman's dress during the Letterman show in 2000. It took place during a commercial break when several staffers had gathered on the set to prep for the next segment. The woman was speaking to Dave, and Georgie simply grabbed a hunk of her garment like it was a Kleenex and wiped away. Yeah, it wasn't kicking an old lady out of line, but what an astonishing sense of pompous entitlement it showed. I may vote for him, but I'm not a big fan of a guy who seems to have failed his way to the top.

(Yeah, Clinton also wiped on a dress. I admit I voted for that skeave the first time too.)

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MP5
August 13, 2004, 07:41 AM
Outside of the many infuriating or disturbing specific things he and his administration have done/note done (the list is lengthy), it's that very sense of arrogance and disconnection from the people that really rubs me the wrong way--Rumsfeld is particularly bad there.

I also dislike how Bush tends to be wishy-washy on issues (he's yet to veto any legislation, iirc), particularly the RKBA, where he's pretty weak and won't take an active stand in the right direction. Instead he voices support for existing gun legislation, including the AWB, instead of regularly and proactively fighting against such things. That may not be politically attractive to him and his cronies in the White House, but standing up for what's right is rarely popular.

Cool Hand Luke 22:36
August 13, 2004, 08:05 AM
Okay, you're voting for Bush, but without enthusiasm. What sticks in your craw the most about his policies, character, abilities, whatever?

I won't be voting for Bush again. His immigration policies are galling.

Vincentie Fox must have compromising pictures of Bush.

Ransom
August 13, 2004, 08:28 AM
I support most everything President Bush has done but a few things I really disagree with such as voiding an american citizens constitutional rights by naming them an "enemy combatant" and never having to find them guilty of anything and the DOJ claiming they should be able to do it to anyone they choose. I also find trying to use the consitution to combat gay marriage highly offensive.

It just seems like he doesnt respect the constitution like he should. And respect for the constitution is my number one voting issue.

halvey
August 13, 2004, 08:31 AM
I also dislike how Bush tends to be wishy-washy on issues (he's yet to veto any legislation, iirc), particularly the RKBA, where he's pretty weak and won't take an active stand in the right direction. Ok, which President HAS helped on RKBA issues?

Luke - Who are you voting for then? If you're in a battleground state, anyone but Bush is a vote for Kerry. See Ralph Nader and Ross Perot.

Shooter 2.5
August 13, 2004, 09:02 AM
Kerry is one of the top anti-gun members of the Senate. His voting record is 100% anti-gun.
Kerry on gun control:
# Gun owner & hunter, but rights come with responsibility. (Mar 2004)
# Democratic Party shouldn't be for the NRA. (Nov 2003)
# Supports assault weapons ban & Brady Bill. (Oct 2003)
# Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
# Voted YES on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
# Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
# Voted NO on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
# Voted NO on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
# Prevent unauthorized firearm use with "smart gun" technology. (Aug 2000)

He's unfit to be the President.

priv8ter
August 13, 2004, 09:23 AM
One of the biggest things that has cost him points amoung me, and some of my co-workers, is the Anti-Overtime Law he pushed for.

Even now, no one really knows how it is going to affect people...Bush and his folks say it will only affect a few hundred thousand, but if you really read the way the law is written, it could affect several million.

And...the Patriot Act. Granted...he didn't write it. But...it's not just Bush that made me mad there. There have actually been members of our Legislature, that when given grief over voting for it, admitted to not having read it at all! And then, the Supreme Court says, 'Yeah...it probably violates the 4th Ammendment, but....so what?'

From now on, NOTHING the Federal Government does will surprise me.

But, for all that...I'd still rather have him then Kerry. I just hope Washington is so lop-sided for Kerry, that I can vote my consience without having it actually affect anything.

:(

Like Homer Simpson Said: Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

:barf:

Greg

Partisan Ranger
August 13, 2004, 09:33 AM
Bush pandering to that group of racist minority journalists in DC last week particularly galls me. I know, I know, you have to 'reach for the middle' to win a national office, but I am sickened by modern race bigots who are excused of their bigotry because of their skin pigment.

I thought all racism was bad? I guess only if you're white.

Cool Hand Luke 22:36
August 13, 2004, 10:54 AM
halvey:

Luke - Who are you voting for then? If you're in a battleground state, anyone but Bush is a vote for Kerry. See Ralph Nader and Ross Perot.


I can see some advantages for RKBA by having the Republicans spanked severely by losing the White House for 4 years. It'd be the last time that the Republicans took us for granted (at least for a while anyway).

Would Kerry in the White House really be the disaster that many predict?

Kerry wouldn't get any anti-2nd Amendment legislation past a Republican House and Senate,

Kerry would undoubtedly nominate 2-3 very liberal justices to SCOTUS, but then again, maybe it's time the Republicans learned to fight dirty on that like the Democrats (Bork a few Kerry nominees). Consider that 7 of the 9 Justices currently on SCOTUS are Republican nominees. Tell me, where's our payoff for decades of faithfull support?

Bush wins hands down over Kerry on the War on Terror, and that's the only reason I would consider voting for him, and only if the election is close in Va, which it won't be.

I'll write in Donald Duck for President instead of voting for a Liberal like G. W. Bush.

Hopefully the Constitution Party will make it on the VA ballot.

The straw that broke the camel's back as far as I'm concerned was Bush's proposal to INCREASE funding for the National Endowment for the Arts. Like we need more Maplethorpe photos of crucifixes in glasses of urine, all at taxpayer's expense. Killing NEA used to be a litmus test for Republicans.

Bush has been one hell of a disappointment on just about everything except the WOT.

boofus
August 13, 2004, 11:03 AM
Cons:

Bush signs anything that gets to his desk. McCain-Feingold is blatantly unconstitutional and he even said he thought it was wrong, but signed it anyway. Congress shall pass no law abridging freedom of speech or the press... That means if Jesus comes down out of heaven in a chariot of fire with 100 angels, if alien overlords come from Mars, if Elvis reappears and they all ask for censorship 60 days before an election it still isn't a good enough reason.

Illegal alien amnesty bs. When my parents came to the US my mother and father had to separate for a year to wait for INS to do their stuff, if they can survive the paperwork surely other people can too. Illegally entering the US is a criminal act, plain and simple and to decriminalize it is a slap in the face for anyone that does it the legitimate way.

He won't come right out and say "The AWB is an unconstitutional and largely ineffective infringement on normal people's rights"


:cuss:

Rebar
August 13, 2004, 11:03 AM
I really don't like the open door immigration policy. I'm a libertarian, but not on that issue.

ryoushi
August 13, 2004, 11:08 AM
I really like President Bush but my biggest disappointment was when we backed down in Fallujah back in April. Four American contractors were killed, mutilated, drug through the streets and hung from a bridge while the town cheered. The Marines went in and began to kick some serious ass but then we stopped to negotiate and that city is still giving us problems.

Regrettfully the same thing is happening in Najaf right now. I hate it when people point out Vietnam similarities but I have to admit this stinks of Vietnam. It seems as if operations are taking a backseat to politics.

2nd Amendment
August 13, 2004, 11:09 AM
I've never been quite sure what all the Bush-bashing is about coming from Repubs. Other than the PA I don't really see any problems. He's no conservative, of course, but he's as close as was possible at the time. His "Moderate" nature makes me less interested in voting for him but considering the only option available it is, simply, no choice at all.

halvey
August 13, 2004, 11:43 AM
In the reality of 30 second commercials and 7 second sound bites, the AWB is a loser politically. 70-80% of people support the AWB. Problem is they don't know what it entials. The bigger problem is it takes more than 30 seconds to explain the issue.

So why fight it from a presidential political standpoint? I know, "because it's the right thing to do", but in todays political world it isn't worth it. Heck, Reagan could have been our biggest ally riding on his horses with a lever action and 2 Colt SAA's, but he didn't.

By the way, when's the last time a gun company stood up for our rights? S&W still uses those silly internal locks. Bill Ruger said "no honest man needs more than 10 rounds". Para should make a statement that Canada is a restrictive gun society and we are moving to the US, but they don't.

How do you expect a non-gun guy President to do the same?

Gun control is won/lost at the state level. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Shooter 2.5
August 13, 2004, 11:48 AM
Why would gun owners move from having a liberal gun grabber like clinton to a moderate like Bush who has never signed a gun bill back to a gun grabber worse than teddy kennedy?

Sounds like a bunch of anti's using every excuse in the book to elect kerry.

MP5
August 13, 2004, 04:05 PM
These sorts of sound-bite statistics can be misleading:

# Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)


You probably wouldn't want anyone to have voted "Yea" on that bill (S.1805) since it included an amendment sponsored by Diane Feinstein to extend the Assault Weapons Ban by another ten years.

http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:S.1805:

With a bunch of irrelevant or divisive amendments like that tacked on, it's no surprise that only eight senators voted for it:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00030

# Gun owner & hunter, but rights come with responsibility. (Mar 2004)

Rights do indeed come with responsibility, if you want a civilized society of mature adults. Anyone who disagrees about upholding personal responsibility shouldn't own a gun. Guns themselves are safe; guns in the hands of reckless morons are about as unsafe as you can get.

Bartholomew Roberts
August 13, 2004, 04:16 PM
Would Kerry in the White House really be the disaster that many predict?

Kerry wouldn't get any anti-2nd Amendment legislation past a Republican House and Senate,

See, I do not get this. I see many people, though perhaps not you personally, bash Bush for not doing enough to restore RKBA. They say that holding the line and the few small reversals he has given us is not satisfactory. All he has done is not added any other anti-Second Amendment legislation (putting aside the partial repeal of the Clinton-era EO on parts, the Tiahrt Amendment and the lapse of the semi-auto ban).

In order to teach the Republicans a lesson for this transgression, they propose we elect a guy where the BEST CASE scenario will be no additional anti-Second Amendment legislation. I don't grasp the thinking behind this.

MP5
August 13, 2004, 04:21 PM
I think part of the reason there's a (seeming) disconnect in some of these discussions is that some people here are viewing the election solely from an RKBA standpoint, while others are looking at it from a wider angle that includes other issues. That can make a huge difference.

GLOCKME
August 13, 2004, 08:05 PM
WOW...

I guess if you are considering anyone other than Bush at this time,you are considering ANTI-GUN LEGISLATION...
Flip Flop Kerry ran back to vote for the AWB..Mr. Bush said he would sign an extension,knowing full well it would NOT come up for his signature..Politics-YES...Against us NOOOOOO...

A vote for ANYONE but Bush is a vote against the 2nd Amendment..

Standing Wolf
August 13, 2004, 09:26 PM
I won't be voting for Bush again. His immigration policies are galling.

Not to mention anti-American.

Lone_Gunman
August 13, 2004, 10:01 PM
A vote for ANYONE but Bush is a vote against the 2nd Amendment..

While you are wallowing how good it feels to have such a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment in office, remember, Bush signed Campaign Finance Reform.

Campaign Finance Reform limits free speech much more than the AWB limited firearms ownership.

Bush's views on the Bill of Rights seemed based on what he thinks is politically advantageous. In the case of campaign finance reform, he thought it was politically advantageous to sign it, despite thinking it was probably un-Constitiutional. In the case of the AWB, he chose to claim to support renewal, and then not push for it, again because of political considerations.

I have heard it said that Bush has a strong "moral compass"; but to me it seems his "magnetic north" must be re-election.

ducktapehero
August 13, 2004, 10:37 PM
If you're in a battleground state, anyone but Bush is a vote for Kerry :rolleyes: That's assuming the person involved was even considering voting for Bush in the 1st place. Liberals claim that a vote for anyone but Kerry is a vote for Bush.

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