Will AWB/Hi-cap Ban Sunset result in the Revival of Wonder Nine?


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AirPower
August 16, 2004, 12:59 AM
With the endless debates of 9 vs 40 vs 45, if you come right down to it, the caliber war will only be equalized if you have 16rd of 9mm vs 12rd of .40S&W vs. 8rd of .45acp. The AWB sunset will definitely result in cheaper hicap mags and may give the Wonder 9 a leg up in this argument. What do you think?

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fistful
August 16, 2004, 02:10 AM
For a lot of reasons, I think the "revival" of the 9mm and/or .40 cal will be less than some might expect. The wondernine is to some extent an open-carry or duty gun, and the onset of Shall-issue would have diminished its popularity all on its own. Sure, plenty of us will want a high-cap 9 or 40 in the nightstand, but some will use their concealed carry gun as a home-defense gun. Some people can't afford two of them (pray for us), aren't gun-nuts enough to buy two of them (really pray for those people) and some just prefer to be as proficient as possible with the same gun.

High-cap guns are no longer the latest, greatest technology, and folks are no longer so crazed with having the latest thing as they once were. As an example, when I was a teenager who had never shot a gun before, I thought the Sig 9mm was the hottest thing going. That was in the early 90's. When I bought my first handgun in my early 20's it was a wonder1911 (a Para-Ord. 13.45). Now, I own a S & W Mod. 19 revolver and am hoping to buy a Para LTC, (single action, single stack). Yeah, I know, I ought to get a .22 for practice.

The AWB caused a certain reconsideration of the 1911 and the revolver. Those who "converted" may never return to the wondernine camp, especially with all the high-cap .45's out there, including 1911's and the new .45 GAP's. A lot of our preference for guns is emotional, is shaped in our early years, and won't be changed by practical considerations.

carebear
August 16, 2004, 02:20 AM
Seconded.

Not sure if the Ban's awakening of gun owners had anything to with the wave of "shall issue" legislation passed, but it sure did decrease interest in the duty wondernines.

The reformation of carry laws, even if unconnected to the Ban, certainly began the opposing trend toward sacrificing absolute capacity for lowered size and weight. "Why be so big, if you only get 10?"

Never was a "big gun" guy myself anyway.

More of a bayonet guy by heritage. :D

Peter M. Eick
August 16, 2004, 03:59 AM
Other then for IPSC where you need the "Big Stick" I really doubt there will be a huge resurgence of normal capacity (>10 rnds) guns. Myself I will wait a few weeks and then go stock up on normal capacity magazines.

I will pick up mags for the following:
beretta 84f (13 rnds, have 5 need say 5 more)
Glock 20 (15 rnds, have 5 get maybe 10 more)
Witness 10mm (15? rnds, have none, will get 10 more)


Thats basically it for me. My other large count magazine guns I either have enough mags to be happy or don't need more.

WhoKnowsWho
August 16, 2004, 04:20 AM
I am eyeballing a Para 18.9 for purchase after the ban...

azrael
August 16, 2004, 05:26 AM
I dont think that it will ever be as it once was...could be wrong of course, but I dont see it...

What ius my shopping list gonna be??
10-22? Prolly 10-15 30rd mags
Glock 20? Prlly 5-10 15 rd mags
XD-9?? Prolly 5-10 15 rd mags...

Thats about it...

wally
August 16, 2004, 08:28 AM
With the endless debates of 9 vs 40 vs 45, if you come right down to it, the caliber war will only be equalized if you have 16rd of 9mm vs 12rd of .40S&W vs. 8rd of .45acp.

Forgetting about Para and Bul M5 based 1911 style wide body guns?

14+1 in 45ACP or 16+1 in .40S&W. I suspect these will make a big comeback as lack of good magazines really holds them back. Few people like the extra grip thickness enough to get 10+1 vs 8+1 for a single stack gun or are willing to pay $70+ for pre-ban mags of dubious quality.

I go with single stack for carry, but prefer the widebody guns at the range -- they feel better to me. YMMV The Bul M5 based guns are really no thicker than most 1911 wood grips, its just the thickness goes full round instead of tapering off front and back.

Its hard, maybe even foolish, not to have a 9mm given the price of the ammo!

--wally.

Blueduck
August 16, 2004, 12:46 PM
I really don't think sales have been affected by the ban (at least not nearly what I expected anyway). Glock 17's 92fs's, Highpowers, all seem to have been selling well past ten years So I'd guess hi-cap being easily available to more folks won't make much difference.

I'd think HK would be the primary beneficiary of this deal as thier standard mags seem kinda pricey and harder to come by. If I'm not mistaken they have a new US plant openbing as well which might drop prices a bit more in line with Glock and Berreta.

boofus
August 16, 2004, 01:19 PM
The wonder 5.7x28mm might be popular once the standard cap mags are available. I traded my 5.7 IOM towards a SMG but I'm considering getting another one in Sept, the prices are even lower now for the gun and ammo than when they were first available. :p

halvey
August 16, 2004, 01:45 PM
It'll be a bigger issue for the AR rifles.

As far as the Para's: good luck. Do your research.

armoredman
August 16, 2004, 01:49 PM
My CZ PO1 is a concealment gun, and the normal mags for it are 14 rounders....looking forward to getting a few....

JNewell
August 16, 2004, 01:58 PM
The carry-law points above are right, IMO. "Wonder Nine" mags have been available throughout the ban, although at higher prices that would otherwise be the case. People who wanted 'em have bought 'em.

Now, maybe "Wonder 40" or more double-stack 45s...but I am guessing not. There is more interest in concealment today than a decade ago, and getting more than ten .45 ACP rounds into a magazine really bulks up the grip section, which is the hardest to conceal. The .40 is closer to the 9x19, of course, but it's still a big grip.

It does look like we're going to find out, though!

MrAcheson
August 16, 2004, 05:20 PM
Yes. You will see a lot more wonder nine and wonder .40s. It may not be as big a fad as it was in the '80s, but they will be coming back.

Granted to some extent the fad never went away. For older guns hicaps were available. I can get as many $20 hicaps for my hipower as I want. For newer guns that came to market after 1994, you could at least try the .40 mag holds 9mm trick to get some additional capacity over 10 rounds. However I predict that you will see some shakeup in the market. Some people will migrate to higher capacity service pistols as they become more practically and economically viable. Others will "round out their collections." At the very least the days of the 1911 being on every gun rag cover are hopefully over. The death of the 10 round limit will see American companies designing hicap service pistols again.

As for the "everybody wants carry guns" line of logic, its funny how people that carry government model 1911s complain about how big a Sig 226 is. Its true that the shall issue movement has helped there, but don't discount the 10 round limit here as well. There is a reason all of taurus's little pistols are 10 rounders.

fistful
August 16, 2004, 07:32 PM
At the very least the days of the 1911 being on every gun rag cover are hopefully over.

Hopefully not. Even though I don't like half of them anyway, with their goofy front serrations, five inch barrels (commanders ROCK, y'all), and target sights (ick).

Greg Bell
August 16, 2004, 10:55 PM
Yes, they will be back. Most people don't carry. Most are bought for plinking and home defense. These folks will be buying more full size combat autos.

jeff-10
August 16, 2004, 11:40 PM
I think we will see more a birth of the wonder 40 S&W and wonder 357 Sig then the wonder 9 mm again. Of courseI could be totally wrong and we will started to see some 20 round 9mms now, who knows.

AirPower
August 16, 2004, 11:52 PM
oh yeah, dont' forget those Wonder FN (5.7mm), 20rd of sharp needles. :D

Black Snowman
August 16, 2004, 11:54 PM
At least new 9mm designs will have a chance like the Steyrs et al. I'd like to see a hi-cap 7.62x25, just because I think it's a neat cartridge.

Chris Pinkleton
August 17, 2004, 12:06 AM
It will for me. I just traded my G33 for a G17. Just a few weeks for full-caps!!!!!

TomN
August 17, 2004, 12:12 AM
I am just so tired of this silly ban. But it'll be nice to be able to buy full capacity mags for my 9mm and .40's again. As for the Wondernines, I think there will be an increase of interest but I don't think it'll be as profound as it was in the 80's and early 90's.

Big Mike
August 17, 2004, 02:17 AM
I think the bigger bore hi-caps will make the greatest jump in sales...JHO...Mike

45auto
August 17, 2004, 10:55 AM
The "wonder" guns never left, at least in sales IMHO.

Most of the Glocks, Sigs, etc that people buy are doublestack, just with 10 rounds.

I would spend my available "gun money" on the high cap mags. The guns will be available later on. I doubt the mags will...however.

pauli
August 17, 2004, 11:08 AM
hell, i'm more interested in a wonder 22...

Blueduck
August 17, 2004, 01:03 PM
Wonder if Calico might have some nice toys coming out?

MrAcheson
August 17, 2004, 01:20 PM
Actually now that I've thought more, I'm betting the biggest growth market will be the wonder40. How many hicap .40S&W mags are out there now? Not many. The .40 never had its hicap heyday so maybe we will see one, but maybe not.

mrapathy2000
August 17, 2004, 03:29 PM
I think 40S&W and 10mm will see more of a Revival than 9mm.

The Kidd
August 17, 2004, 08:35 PM
I don't want to hijack the thread... When the AWB goes away will I be able to find 9x17 hi-caps? I have a FEG B9R that is supposed to have 14 rounders. I've never been able to find even one. I like this little blow back pistol I just want it to have a full meal(so to speak).

BigG
August 18, 2004, 07:35 AM
Since most of the late model 9mms will accept high capacity mags and there are bushel baskets of the popular mags GLOCK Beretta SIG Browning etc already out there. I think the price will just become reasonable but I don't think their is going to be a renaissance of 9mm high cap pistol designs. They have already been done.

Vitamin G
August 18, 2004, 08:16 PM
Ditto the Wunder22 ;)

Sure, 15 9mms would be dandy...

So would 90 .22s :D

I could shoot 5 or 6 magazines at the range, and be done with my brick :D

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