Another PT145 thread...


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Smurfslayer
August 16, 2004, 09:09 AM
I bought (among other things) a PT145 stainless Mil. Pro at the Chantilly, VA gun show. I shot it several times now, and here are the results...

Blazer CCI Brass case: fired all rounds, 2 malfs - both failures to feed, mid magazine.

Reloads / 230 gr. plated / Win. LP Primer / 6.2 grains of power pistol (Alliant list 7.2 grains max @ 900 FPS IIRC) - I use this in my Mac10...

Bad results. At least 6 out of 50 rounds were light struck, and lit off on a subsequent trigger pull.

I generally have a "zero tolerance" for a new gun failing, but a friend has a PT111 and indicated a potential fix was to make sure the striker spring area was cleaned of all the 'delivery grease/goo' and retest. Begrudgingly I did it, and retested yesterday...

Same reloads as above, results:

50 rounds fired (the gun was spotlessly cleaned, oiled as appropriate). There was one 'misfeed', and again, several light strike failures to fire.

One of the criteria for being a 'keeper' is that the gun has to work reliably with my reloads - like my other guns - H&K USPs, Mac10, S&W 325PD, Taurus revolvers, etc...

I'm at an X-roads. My 'zero failure' policy has been repeatedlly violated, BUT, I have to make an allowance for at least _some_ responsibility:

85% of the .45 brass has been through the Mac, which is pretty hard on brass. My 2 Witness pistols and the 325 do fine with it...

I've seen previous threads dealing with the 145's woes, so I'm not sure if I should cut my losses and sell it, or try to get it fixed by Taurus...

In order to proceed with problem determination further, I would need at least 3 boxes of good, fresh .45 ammo to see if the problem is reproduceable...

Tips? tricks? suggestions? Opinions?

Keep the 145 ? Dump it / get another (non 145) gun?

TIA

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gbelleh
August 16, 2004, 09:28 AM
Are you planning to use it as a defensive gun? If so, I would probably sell it. It's hard to trust a gun after it has problems like that. If it's just a range gun, it doesn't matter so much.

Smurfslayer
August 16, 2004, 09:48 AM
I would like this gun to be a candidate for defensive 'use'... As a DAO, it lends itself nicely to this role... Ergonomically, I like the idea - 10 shots, .45ACP - not some silly poser, fad cartridge :neener: , in a concealable package...

Still, I'm having trouble overcoming the number & types of failures so far...

The reloads are kind of a financial necessity, with the volume of shooting I do...

wally
August 16, 2004, 11:00 AM
My PT145 has no problems with 230gr Hydrashok or Golden Sabers -- for defense its all that matters, namely that it works with the quality ammo I'd carry.

At the range I have no trouble with Wolf 230gr FMJ or my 230 gr hard cast lead RN reloads. But my 200gr hard cast lead SWC will not feed reliably, OTOH my CZ97, CD EMS, PT945, and Para P10 won't work with 'em either, but they are fine in my three Kimbers, three Colts, and Norinco. (my Para P10 won't work reliably with the lead RN relaods either, but loves Wolf FMJ).

A keeper for the range is different than a keeper for carry. 10+1 in a package as small and light as the PT145 requires some compromises. Anything else in this power/size range costs a good bit more, and most are lower capacity and/or heavier.

If it don't work with quality JHP definitely send it back to Taurus, otherwise sell it if you want a range gun, carry it if it meets your concealment needs and proves reliable with quality ammo. Demanding it work with your realaods may be asking too much.

Are you using a taper crimp die as the last step in your reloading? If not I'd get one and give it a try before I gave up on the gun with your reloads.

--wally.

Smurfslayer
August 16, 2004, 11:21 AM
Yes, I'm using a taper crimp die; to further clarify, I'm reloading with:

Lee pro-1k with the bullet feed kit. This is only the 2nd batch of this load using Winchester primers. Using CCI primers, I was getting several failures to fire / 500 rounds. With the Winchesters, I'm noticing far fewer ~ 1-2 / 1000... This PT145 is the only gun I'm having trouble with getting the reloads to shoot...

You're right, the package would rock... if it's reliable. I should see if regular hollow points will run through without trouble... this would still nag at me though...

PCRit
August 16, 2004, 04:29 PM
Mine has been 100% reliable with WWB 230gr FMJ and JHP, and with Ranger Talon 230gr (my carry load). I don't re-load, so I can't say anything about that.

denfoote
August 16, 2004, 04:45 PM
Many of you should know, from the olden days on TFL, what my thoughts on this pistol are!!! :barf:

Personally, I've buried one bad gun, this would be the only other candidate I could think of!!!

The only problem I have with you selling it is an ethical one. You know the gun is a POS, being responsible for the possible death of another, who uses it (or tries to) to defend his life, is unconscionable IMHO!!!

A trip to mister band saw seems to be in order!!! :scrutiny:

Smurfslayer
August 16, 2004, 04:52 PM
Right tool - right job.

Hammer. Sledge 10#. 1 each.

I'm still considering a test session with factory ammo, and possibly a trip back to Taurus before I would 'offload' a known bad gun...

I would have the same problem with me offloading a POS knowing it could malfunction for someone depending on it...

Hypnogator
August 16, 2004, 04:59 PM
Mine has proven 100% reliable, ignition-wise, with anything I've fed through it, including Win White Box, Taurus, Fed Hydra-Shoks, factory and Georiga Arms Gold Dots. The primers look like they haven't been struck too hard, but they've all functioned the first time.;)

I had some FTFs at first, but they went away when I applied a little "Slide-Glide" to the rails. Have fired at least 300 rds of mixed types since, with 3 magazines, since then, with no failures whatsoever.

I agree with Wally -- if you're having light strikes, send it back to Taurus with a note explaining the problem. They should be happy to fix it for you.

wally
August 16, 2004, 05:36 PM
A trip to mister band saw seems to be in order!!!

I'm sure you'd offer the same advice for a Glock, Kimber, Springfield, GSR etc. that was having problems, especially when shooting reloads!

Expensive brand name guns don't have problems?

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=87955

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=90181

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=89278

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=87292


If he's got a bad one from Taurus (happens!) its only fair to give them a chance to make it right, problem is no maker will admit to a problem with their gun when shooting reloads! Most will say send it back if the problem doesn't go away after 300 rounds of factory FMJ "break in".


Sad fact is that no gun can be counted on new out of the box! plus some guns just don't work with some ammo and vice versa!

--wally.


PS CCI primers are generally considered to be the "hardest" Federal the "softest" but I'm betting you are having some problems with primer seating. Some guns hammer the primer so hard they'll finish seating it and then set it off -- this in not a bad thing for a defense gun, but its a lot to ask from a DAO sub compact.

orangeninja
August 16, 2004, 05:38 PM
Not that my opinion matters any more than anyone elses but here's my take.

I had a Ruger P97 that was nothing but problems. I had to send it to Ruger TWICE to get it fixed. A fellow Officer offered to buy it from me. I gladly sold it when it came back the second time. It has been nothing but absolutely reliable for him. Now I kind of wish I had it back since it works. Lesson = give the company the chance to make it right. You bought the gun because you liked it right? Give it a chance.

Second. I had a Glock 22 that constantly got light hits all the time. As you know the Glock has a bit of a reputation for being "reliable" as well as Ruger. I had the smith check out the Glock. He told me it was the ammo. I consistantly had problems with 2 kinds of ammo. I got rid of it due to the finicky nature of Glock only liking SOME kinds of ammo. That does not make it a BAD defensive gun, it worked perfectly with Winchester and Federal, but like you I demanded 100% reliability bar none from a defensive weapon. In all honesty, the only gun I have ever had reach that level of effectiveness was a Sig or a CZ. Thats it.

My point, send it in. I bet it's an easy fix. Taurus has become a good quality pistol in the last decade.

orangeninja
August 16, 2004, 05:52 PM
Not that my opinion matters any more than anyone elses but here's my take.

I had a Ruger P97 that was nothing but problems. I had to send it to Ruger TWICE to get it fixed. A fellow Officer offered to buy it from me. I gladly sold it when it came back the second time. It has been nothing but absolutely reliable for him. Now I kind of wish I had it back since it works. Lesson = give the company the chance to make it right. You bought the gun because you liked it right? Give it a chance.

Second. I had a Glock 22 that constantly got light hits all the time. As you know the Glock has a bit of a reputation for being "reliable" as well as Ruger. I had the smith check out the Glock. He told me it was the ammo. I consistantly had problems with 2 kinds of ammo. I got rid of it due to the finicky nature of Glock only liking SOME kinds of ammo. That does not make it a BAD defensive gun, it worked perfectly with Winchester and Federal, but like you I demanded 100% reliability bar none from a defensive weapon. In all honesty, the only gun I have ever had reach that level of effectiveness was a Sig or a CZ. Thats it.

My point, send it in. I bet it's an easy fix. Taurus has become a good quality pistol in the last decade.

Smurfslayer
August 18, 2004, 10:40 PM
I've observed two 'peculiar' occurrances

When dry firing the PT145, I notice that around the middle of the trigger stroke, the rear of the barrel 'dips' a small, but visible amount.

2nd, towards the end of the trigger stroke, as the striker spring is tensed, the slide actually moves back again a small, but visible amount. This is less consistent, and I think helps explain the light primer hits, or at least a part of it...

Any of you guys also seeing this?

bubba01
August 19, 2004, 08:37 AM
Smurf:

Dry fire with the weapon's muzzle ponted upwards and you will see an exagerated movement of the slide - same thing occured to my Patriot 45
which has a similar mechanism. I keep them both well lubed but I don't knowif this improves it or not. I've had light strikes on my Glock 30 - until I put a Wolff srinf in it!

Regards,

rich

Smurfslayer
August 19, 2004, 08:51 AM
I hope to have a better read on the situation tomorrow...

I got some more blazer brass case, and I'll buy some HP's at the range to see if ammo makes a difference. I'll also have my Witness .45 for checking the reloads...

I really don't like the idea of sending it back, but this thing is positively tiny next to my Witness compact...

wally
August 19, 2004, 09:12 PM
I've observed two 'peculiar' occurrances

When dry firing the PT145, I notice that around the middle of the trigger stroke, the rear of the barrel 'dips' a small, but visible amount.

2nd, towards the end of the trigger stroke, as the striker spring is tensed, the slide actually moves back again a small, but visible amount. This is less consistent, and I think helps explain the light primer hits, or at least a part of it...

Any of you guys also seeing this?



On mine the motion is too small to see, but I can feel it or see it indirectly if I hold the gun at the correct angle I can see a change in the reflected light as the trigger is slowly pulled -- its much easier to detect by feel on mine.

You may have a defective gun from "tolerance stack-up".

The trigger cocks the striker which sits in the slide which is pushed on by the striker spring which in turn pulls on the barrel which is pulled down from the rearward movement. Guns like Glocks that need some rearward slide movement to "reset" the trigger hide this from you.

Very understandable, but if the amount of movement is clearly visible, your gun might indeed have a problem. On both my PT111 and PT145 the movement is not large enough to see directly, but I can feel it with a finger on the junction of the barrel and slide on top, or at the front of the gun when touching the barrel and slide.

--wally.

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