[Skunkabilly]

Got this headsup from the Berettaforums. I don't know about you guys but I'm going to dump my Striders and Emersons for one of these babies.... :D

http://www.darkopsknives.com/gfx/dark_ops_logo_web.jpg

Here's why:
But should you run out of ammo and need to slash through the mob, these are the tools to use! They are considered by many to be the most effective edged combat weapons in existence today.

And for Duke of Lawnchair:
Made by operators for operators in the greatest country in the world!

Not only that:
Strategically placed blood grooves control blood spray in covert deanimation activities.

http://www.darkopsknives.com/gfx/fixed_blade_911.jpg

I'm going to de-animate some Tangos with Interceptor 9-11, baby! Best used in conjunction with X-treme Shock anti-terrorist rounds.

[Schuey2002]

It looks like an exact copy of an Extrema Ratio ..

:uhoh:

http://store3.yimg.com/I/willowslover_1802_29175171 http://store3.yimg.com/I/willowslover_1802_44284830

[Jim March]

Whoa!

Folks, we have a whole NEW entry for the field of "hype":

http://www.darkopsknives.com/about.html

:eek:

That said...Extrema Ratio are complete morons when it comes to grip shapes with the sole exception of the "K1 Doberman" fixed blade: http://www.extremaratio.com/ing/index2.php

"Dark Ops" :rolleyes: are at least decent in that area, although not perfect.

Grip shape on high-end knives MATTERS.

[Soap]

Make fun but Larry at the gunshop told me he used the Dark Ops when he was with SOCOM back in the 'Nam. ;)

Maybe I can buy one and live out my Sam Fisher fantasies just by holding it. :p

[Boats]

I predict they will sell a lot to people who know precious little about cutlery.

[SLCDave]

Isn't it "Dark POS"? ;)

[Skofnung]

Oh My! :what:

What big strategically placed blood grooves you have...

The better to corner the Tactical Market with, my dear...

[JShirley]

I'd take an EDMF or Himalayan Imports over that silly fantasy knife, anyday.

And I'd save a couple hundred, probably. :rolleyes:

John

[Don Gwinn]

How humiliated are you when you find out SKUNKABILLY is making fun of your goofy uber-tactical silliness?

It's like being called a momma's boy by Cliff Claven. . . . .




. . . . . Uhhh. . . . no offense, Skunk. All in good fun and all that. . . . . .
:D

[Joe Demko]

Move over Lynn "Tanto" Thompson. Though I would have bet my left one it would never happen, someone has surpassed you in overblown hype.

[Damon]

They didn't mention the most important word in their ad, NINJA. Who cares if SEALS. Rangers, Special Forces, SOCOM, etc. use their knife. I only want ninja stuff.

Therefore, I cannot buy one of their knives. :p :neener: :p

[hso]

These folks came out of the closet at the Blade Show in Atlanta with a big pimped-up booth setup that looked like the love child of Richard Marcinko and Britney Spears. We watched them set up across from Cold Steel and actually snickered. Very Hollyqueer Rambozo.

[Tamara]

Strategically placed blood grooves...

I believe I'll wait for the model with tactically placed blood grooves.

[Skunkabilly]

How humiliated are you when you find out SKUNKABILLY is making fun of your goofy uber-tactical silliness?

:evil:

They have raised the bar in tac-posing...must...try...harder....

[Don Gwinn]

They were set up across from Cold Steel? I bet that was interesting. You were lucky there wasn't a gang fight a la West Side Story.

I wonder if this means we'll soon see articles by Lynn Thompson explaining in detail how the Dark Ops claims are false--treating them entirely seriously, of course--and how Cold Steel Trailmaster Bowies are superior to Dark Ops.

Either that, or there'll be Vaquero Grandes with strategically placed blood grooves at the next BLADE show.


OK, now, help me out here--when they refer to "blood grooves," are they talking about those serrations near the ricasso? Even if there were such things as blood grooves (which I think, this week, we've decided there aren't) how would you apply that name to those?

Also, I can't help but notice the "9/11 We Will Not Forget" now that I look again. That's just plain disgusting.

And what do they mean by "Cobalt Tungsten Vanadium?" Are they just throwing out random names of metal elements? I can't believe people like this go through life and are not embarassed. I'm sure they'd say this is just salesmanship and "all of life is sales." All the shady salesmen I've worked for have spouted the same pseudo-philosophical junk.

[Skofnung]

OK, now, help me out here--when they refer to "blood grooves," are they talking about those serrations near the ricasso? Even if there were such things as blood grooves (which I think, this week, we've decided there aren't) how would you apply that name to those?

I wondered about that for a moment, but then it hit me. It does not matter one way or the other. Only that the Tactical masses Believe that said grooves will control blood spray in covert deanimation activities.

We all know how tricky that blood spray thing is durring those covert deanimation activities, don't we. :rolleyes:

The lure does not need to catch a fish, only the fisherman.

[hso]

Boring lecture voice - The term "blood groove", or fuller , is the longitudinal depression running along the midline of the blade. Some consider it to allow blood to run out or facilitate breaking suction for withdrawl in a thrust. It is more functionally a weight reduction method to lighten the blade while retaining it's strength. - boring lecture voice off


As Tamara has alluded to, the concept of "strategic" blood grooves seems to be illogical for a "tactical" knife (unless of course they intend to frighten all the BGs of the world into submission with their blood grooves I see little STRATEGIC value to blood groove). Of course there's little logic in the breathless purple prose that their ad agency slathered all over.
:barf:

Lynn seemed to show a great deal of disdain for the Dork Ooops folks:scrutiny:

[Tamara]

When Lynn Thompson is put off by your hype and bombast, you know you've gone wayyyyy over the line. :D

[Joe Demko]

We can't mention knives and bombast without a tip of the hat to Kevin "Mad Dog" McLung.

[Mute]

These are the BEST knives ever made. Period. I have secret information that will prove this to be true. I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. :rolleyes:

[JShirley]

Heeheehee. :)

Anything that has Dark GeniusTM must surely be the font of Real Ultimate Power! :D

[mtnbkr]

Very Hollyqueer Rambozo.

That describes most of the "tactical knife" market.

Chris

[Elmer Snerd]

Dark Ops Knives are made from a proprietary hybrid alloy of Chromium, Cobalt, Tungsten, Vanadium, and Molyb-denum with surgical grade stainless steel! Is this a fancy way of saying "We make 'em out of 420 stainless"?

[Andrew Wyatt]

These are the BEST knives ever made. Period. I have secret information that will prove this to be true. I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.


...wow. good LeMas ammo impersonation. :)

[Don Gwinn]

Is this a fancy way of saying "We make 'em out of 420 stainless"?
Yes, I do believe it is. That's what I'm saying about the markings on the blade--Vanadium? Are there any halfway widely-used cutlery steels that don't have at least trace amounts of Vanadium? Chromium? Give me a break!

hso, that's the consensus on "blood grooves" right now, but give it a week. Someone will change it. :uhoh:

[45R]

I'll stick to my Benchmades. :) Funny Post Skunky

[Hawk]

:confused:

Dark Ops Knives are made from a proprietary hybrid alloy of Chromium, Cobalt, Tungsten, Vanadium, and Molyb-denum with surgical grade stainless steel!

My handy-dandy Spyderco steel chart is showing Cobalt and Tungsten as relatively unusual.

Cobalt shows up in ATS-55 and VG-10.
Tungsten occurs in W-1, M-2, 1095, 20-CV, Hitachi Blue and Vascowear.

I can't find any alloy with both Cobalt and Tungsten.

'Course it's only the Spydie chart - same as the one on A.G. Russel's site. So it's far from complete, but the alloy isn't 420J2. I'm getting just a teensy bit curious - perhaps we've been given the formula for Mithril or Adamantite? A most entertaining site, nonetheless.

[Soap]

I'm going to come out with a tactical line that is 1/2" bar stock and test it in "extreme conditions". Granted it wouldn't cut worth anything but it would be THE ULTIMATE! :neener:

[Prodigalshooter]

These guys are owned by Blackhawk, just got a bunch of advertising crap from them in my goody bag at the state IDPA match. I'm not going to be able to buy one of these until I get my night-vision goggles and special gloves and black balaclava. Damn!

[hso]

Prodigal,

MOD is owned by Blackhawk, not Dork Ops. If I knew who was behind them I'd be happy to blow the whistle, but it ain't Blackhawk.

[carebear]

Does it come in coyote brown?

[Skunkabilly]

I believe I'll wait for the model with tactically placed blood grooves.

Tamara,

How about the logistically placed ones? :evil:

[Obiwan]

There was a post on TF about the SEAL they are using as a poster child.

Apparently he has the same military record fiction writer as John Kerry

[gbelleh]

It sounds like these knives might even give you "total absence of fear"!

[Harold Mayo]

Wow...this is my favorite forum but I'm a little ashamed of what I'm reading here...:(

Although I, too, find the advertising graphics offensive to the eye (NEVER have I liked that whole Blackhawk advertising look), I take the descriptions as tongue-in-cheek. They MUST be.

I have been acquainted with Frank Miller, the owner of Dark Ops, for several years and, although I really haven't spoken with him about this new knife venture, I know him well enough to know that he absolutely MUST be laughing at the advertising. It has certainly HAS generated interest on this forum and others...maybe THAT was the goal...?:confused:

In any case, some of you guys are really down on the knives without even having touched one. Copies of Extrema Ratio? Well...yeah, they look pretty close, don't they?:uhoh: Still yet, the owner was the US salesman for Extrema Ratio for a while and it is only to be expected that they would bear at least SOME resemblance. May even use the same materials from the same suppliers. Don't know, but I'm not going to knock the stuff until I've tried it or until a sufficient number of people whose opinions I trust have tried them.

Obiwan...you notice on TF even those guys didn't say that he was NEVER a SEAL...only that the guy wasn't what he thought he was. Don't know the guy, never met him, don't care to...but I'll reserve my opinion until I can base it on something more than rumor and conjecture if I care to form an opinion at all.

As an aside, the owner of Dark Ops is very pro-gun, very outspoken, and one hell of a shooter. Although there are rumors that he and Extrema Ratio parted on bad terms, my own dealings with him have been flawless and he has always conducted himself in a forthright and honest manner. Don't know about buying the knives since none of them appeal to me, but I would not hesitate to do business with the man behind them.:)

[Jim March]

Well I *did* say I thought the grip designs were decent. Mating an "Extrema Ratio" type blade to a decent grip isn't a bad concept.

Yes, the marketing is embarassingly over the top. And yes, they aren't saying what steel they're using, which is bad. But they're probably decent goods, although I'd like to see how they balance.

[Harold Mayo]

To be honest, I don't care for any of the Extrema Ratio knives except for the Col Moschin...but I absolutely LOVE that knife. Pretty simple and, in my opinion, well-designed.

I AM curious about the Dark Ops stuff but I just don't see myself buying any of the line. None of the fixed blades appeal to me and the folders, while extremely sturdy, are just too big.

[sendec]

Whoever developed the first BlackHawk/MOD/WhateverShok ad design schema had to have done some bad acid back in the hippy days. Claws, flames, I can taste the colors!!!!!!

I'm not inclined to rip something I have'nt tried. The ad campaign may be X-Tremely silly, but I dont have to cut anything with an ad. The knives may be great or not, let them speak for themselves - Enough of us buy more "tactical" dung that does absolutely nothing that really needs to be done, why not let these guys cash in, along with the Tactical Impact Device guy and the 5.11 pants people.

[hso]

Harold Mayo,

If you know the fellow behind the DO knives and like him please urge him to change the way the knives are being marketed! If he's laughing at the ad copy he ain't the only one and that means his company is being laughed at. That will wreck his business and he'll loose his shirt. The tactical knife market is so crowded right now that this over the top advertising would make anyone look like a poser. At the very least he should make certain that someone writes the copy that knows what they are talking about.

Since I didn't find any of the DO knives I handled at the Blade Show any better than any of the hundreds I've played with from other manufacturers they should turn the volume down to 10.

[cordex]

Fortunately, I don't have to deanimate tangos covertly very often, and when I do, I don't care so much about painting the walls red in an even pattern with long, smooth strokes.

While I carried a Cold Steel for a year or two until I had problems with the blade chipping (sharp, but fragile), my knife tastes have changed a bit. I'd probably go back to carrying it if I could get the blade fixed, but I'm not really jonesing for it. CRKT Alaksa Bwana and a few cheapies for abusing do it for me right now.

[Harold Mayo]

hso:

I'm merely acquainted with him. I cannot and will not make any claims of friendship or anything more than mutual acquaintance, though a very good friend of mine was in business with him at one point in time and that is pretty much where I got on speaking terms with him.

Even if I were good friends with him, though, he has not consulted with me on how to market his product and so must, therefore, not give a crap what I think.:evil:

Sink or swim, the DO marketing is what it is. People can laugh all they want, but you never know what might happen. It has certainly generated more interest than being low-key about it.:D

In the long term, the proof is, as they say, "in the pudding". Either the knives are great or they're not.

I have little or no interest in the models that I've seen but I HAVE gotten a kick out of reading the ad copy and reading the various flaming posts on myriad forums about it.

[tex_n_cal]

Uh huh.

How exactly would you explain that knife to a jury? I think I hear lawyers giggling nationwide.:uhoh:

[twoblink]

Is "Dark Op" the new "codeword" for 50% markup??:neener:

[brownie0486]

I'm one of the supporters of Franks new venture and allowed myself to be embroiled elsewhere on another forum over the knives and ad copy from DOK.

Over "there", people are calling them "knockoffs" of the ER line and worse though I'll not go into specifics.

Frank Miller [ DOK owner ] was the USA rep/distributor for Extrema Ratio before starting his own venture. While with ER, I purchased a double edged Col Moschin [ limited to 150 knives ], an MPC and another folder I forget the name of. Frank ran a sub forum for ER then and many were intoduced to Frank through that forum.

He was known for taking care of ER customers problems at his own expense even when the company itself would not warranty the product for whatever reason. He garnered a reputation for loyalty to customers and their needs over the corporate status quo.

The ad copy is way over the top and has caused quite the controversy around town and the knife buying public elsewhere. My own idea on the ad copy is it could have been better thought out and less animated overall while still getting their ideas across to the potential buying community.

Most of the first DOK knives will be based on the existing ER lineup with upgraded features which started out as recommendations from people like myself who purchased an ER knife from him. ER would not listen to the suggestions from the American buying public passed to them through Frank and so Frank decided to start his own venture into the business.

He understood that the ER knives were solid, well built, rugged to extreme folders and straight blades and took the input from customers as to what they would like to see for upgrades and ran with that as his initial lineup for the DOK venture.

I have a Stratofighter on reserve presently when DOK does start releasing their lineup to the public which should be very shortly from my recent conversations with Frank via the phone.

The ER's folders are ubertanks where strength and dependability are concerned. I have sold the ER MPC and other folder I had and am anxiously waiting for the upgraded ER MPC model Frank named the Stratofighter.

I carried the MPC not as an EDC defensive knife but up on my waistband, tucked away in the event I ever needed to extricate someone from a vehicle [ or myself ], or had need for a folding prybar that has an edge on it.

I will carry the DOK Strato in the same manner when it arrives after I review it if I think it merits carrying it with that purpose in mind. Some of the upgrades found on the strato are from suggestions from customers including myself and if the upgrades are indeed worth it, the knife will be carried whenever possible as a backup extrication tool daily.

On another note, the DOK's will be priced quite a bit cheaper than the ER lineup as well. That suits me just fine as I feel the quality of these will be at least on par with the ER line, and for less. Thats a good thing.

Understand that not everyone will want to get a DOK for any reason. The ER lineup nor the DOK lineup appeals to everyone. They are heavy, somewhat bulky in nature as folders go, and if you are looking for something in a folder that can withstand the abuse it may be given under the harshest conditions imaginaeable, this line of folders may be worth considering.

Time will tell if Frank has made the correct choices in his advertising and products to be sold here in the US. One thing you can count on with Frank is that if you buy from him and ever have a problem with that product for any reason, Frank will make it right no matter what that takes from him.

Robin Brown

[krept]

well, this is the first time that I have posted regarding these knives and I have seen the various threads in several forums. I saw the great customer service that Frank gave as a rep of ER, the various comparisons and flame wars between ER and Strider blades, how Frank left ER, how someone started the thread on D.O. in that other forum and how Brownie has defended Frank pretty much on his own through the constant flood of ridicule for these ads.

I think there lies some confusion in what we are talking about. I don't think anyone should be attacking Frank as a person IF that is what they are doing. I, and I think others, have issues with certain other aspects and NOT Frank as an individual.

First, the D.O. knives look VERY VERY similar to ER designs. Take a third person perspective on this... look what happens when someone makes a tanto and throws on OD cordwrap. People immediately burn the company for being a Strider knockoff. The biggest difference is that the blades are bigtime POSs that don't hold a candle to a real Strider not only in terms of materials but warranty as well. The issue of D.O. vs. ER blades becomes a little more clouded, however, because it would seem that D.O. blades are at least on par with if not superior to ER blades. I'll bet that if someone made blades with very similar geometry to Striders out of S30V, but sold them for $100 less with equal customer service people would be raising cain to high hell and back. Maybe it's because ER is a foreign company... or because they supposedly have (rumored) piss poor customer service that makes this a little more OK. I'm not criticizing D.O. nor am I condoning them, just stating my opinion in an objective manner.

Secondly, the ads. I guess the problem with these ads is that they kind of cheapen the potential overall experience for me. I would almost be embarrassed to own anything from a company that goes off like that (or subcontracts an advertizing firm to do so... same thing, IMO).

One of the reasons why Strider has done so well is because they built themselves up from ground roots with solid blades backed by outstanding customer service.

Frank has established that he has half of that equation - solid customer service... can be a rare thing these days. If his blades are high quality, then he should do very well... and let his work rest on its own laurels.

Maybe this advertising firm was employed to help get the knives jump started to the forefront of discussion instead of building rep slowly but surely? Unfortunately, I feel that this instant (premature?) recognition comes with negative publicity and so far I have heard a LOT more ridicule than I have praise.

[brownie0486]

Krept,

well written and I believe as close to the reality of the situation as one can get without seeing the product first hand.

Who knows why Frank advertised the DOK line like he did? I haven't even asked him myself as it is not my business venture but his. He knows I would not have been over the top on the ads like his initial ads are and which are getting the negative press time in some of the forums ads you mention.

There is much emotion on the subject of ads that portray knives as his ads do and how it affects the industry as a whole and potentially the legislative views when making new laws in the future. While I agree that to some extent DOK has brought unwanted attention to the industry in some form or another, I'm not sure if the industry as a whole has been injured yet sue to his ad campaigns, time will tell of course.

I don't believe the DOK line will be inferior to the ER lineup in materials used through talking with Frank directly. Perhaps the same or better quality with a much better warranty than ER [ which isn't hard to do ]. What I'm hoping for is that the upgraded DOK line will be what people asked for and recommended be changed in the ER lineup to end up with a knife thats solid as a rock but has features that were lacking [ according to many ] in the ER folders.

I do not concern myself with their straight blades in the least as what I'm looking for [ as stated earlier ] is a folding crowbar, that has an useful edge as well, for those times I may need a tool like that but can be carried daily without being noticed by everyone who walks by me.

Time is short and the product line is in the works and close to being released to the general public. They are very close in design to the ER's, Frank has not denied that that was the intent from the very beginning.

They won't be a product for everyone anymore than a Strider is for everyone.
I think once people see the folders, handle them, etc, some opinions may change about the knives themselves [ not the ad copy ] while others will ramain the same.

I'm hoping the strato is what I'm expecting [ to be a very rugged folding knife that can be used as a pybar with a glass breaker ]. If it isn't, I'll be the first one to say so and give reasons why I feel that way at that time.

Robin Brown

[Skunkabilly]

Never even seen an ER knife in person but I did like their camo patterns. :cool:

[brownie0486]

Hey Skunk,
Wondered if you'd wonder back in here on this one.

ER's folders [ the two I had anyway ] are made with extreme hard use/abuse in mind. Both had a crossbolt safety simliar to a shotgun that when activated basically made the folder as astrong as most straight blades would be [ a folding prybar ].

They are bulky and somewhat heavy, as folders go, not to be used as an EDC defensive knife [ IMO ], but just what I have already mentioned above.

If you get a chance to see and handle one, you'll understand what I'm referring to.

Stay sharp sir

Robin Brown

[tex_n_cal]

I guess it isn't a bad looking knife, but I think if I had to wade through a mob with a knife a katana would be surely more effective. Odds are, the mob would part to let me through - especially if any of them saw Kill Bill:D

[Skunkabilly]

http://www.extremaratio.com/images/articoli/coltelli/harpoon_f_tiger.jpg

I kind of always wanted one of these, :cool: :cool: :cool: (it matches my coat of fur) but have little use for a fixed blade knife. My Strider MFS (my only fixed blade besides the crappy one in the kitchen) never gets any use.

Too bad Dark Ops, if they are a decent outfit, has such cheesy marketing :( Took me forever to get an OTIS gun cleaning kit for the same reason :o