Sheriffs find positive new use for CHL equipment


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Drizzt
August 16, 2004, 11:45 PM
ID program helps parents, police find missing kids

By DANIEL PRAZER
Gazette Staff Writer
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What began as a piece of equipment to grant concealed weapon licenses is now helping find missing children.

The Ross County Sheriff's Office rolled out a program called KidPrint ID that gives parents an identification card containing a recent photo, physical description and thumb print.

"This is just another tool that we could use to protect our children," Sheriff Ron Nichols said.

The ID card can be created in minutes using a digital camera, laptop computer and portable card printer -- the same printer used to create licenses to carry a concealed handgun. The parents then keep the card and can turn it over to authorities should their child go missing.

"It's something they can have in their wallet," Lt. Matt Large said. "It's not just something that stays in the home."

In its first day of use, KidPrint ID may have saved a child, Large said. A 4-year-old girl was reported missing Monday afternoon, but she had a KidPrint ID issued earlier in the day.

Thanks to the information being stored in a sheriff's computer database, it was able to be accessed immediately.

"We printed a copy of the card and were able to have a picture and description ... within five minutes," he said.

Deputies found the girl shortly after her card was reprinted.Circleville resident Valorie Huffman waited in line to get ID cards for her children, 13-year-old Austin and 10-year-old Michaella. She said having them made her feel safer, and having a recent photo on hand gave her some peace of mind.

"I am very self-conscious about people taking them, especially in today's world," she said.

Nichols said there were a few kids reported missing each day so far at this year's fair, but they were all recovered quickly. He said parents generally get distracted by friends and turn their backs on the children.

"We're very fortunate here at the county fair," he said. "We generally find the kid within 15, 20 minutes. Usually, the kids aren't lost. The parents are lost."

While it has allowed for a good number of children to be documented, Nichols said the possibilities are much greater. Since it's a portable system, it can go to the kids instead of the other way around.

"We're actually a little surprised at the reception we've gotten," Large said.

"The way it's been received, we've had interest of possibly going into the schools and doing it at the schools."
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Here's the commentary from OFCC:

Concealed-carry opponents have complained about the initial expense of this equipment, which was a one-time cost of about $8000.

Now, sheriffs have found two ways to use the machine to help save lives.

1) Arm the parents who can protect their children.

2) Provide the option for parents to obtain an digital ID.

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kbsrn
August 17, 2004, 09:31 AM
a positve use. Making permits for CCW.

cadfael
August 17, 2004, 10:56 AM
This proves once and for all that a CHL is "for the children".

Adam

cls12vg30
August 17, 2004, 12:09 PM
Hmmmm. So all these kids now have their fingerprints on file with government agencies. And presumably they'll stay on file for the rest of their lives, fingerprints being constant........hmmmmm.

Flyboy
August 17, 2004, 03:53 PM
Hmmmm. So all these kids now have their fingerprints on file with government agencies. And presumably they'll stay on file for the rest of their lives, fingerprints being constant........hmmmmm.

Beat me to it. This is already known to happen, though I can't find a citation at the moment. I'll keep looking.

Personally, if I had kids, I'd get them printed. By someone I trust, somewhere outside the police station, and I'd keep the copies myself. If they're ever needed, I have them. If not, so much the better. I wouldn't go volunteering to let the cops print me or my kids, though.

Unless, of course, I have to do so to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights...:fire:

LawDog
August 17, 2004, 04:45 PM
You know, I can't find the part of the news story that points out that the thumb-prints are done digitally.

We do the KidPrint thing too, but we use good, old-fashioned printers ink and a plate.

Card comes out of the printer with the picture on it, we roll the childs' thumbs across the ink, press the thumbs on the section of the card marked 'thumbprints', give the card to the parents. Move to the next child.

No fuss, a little muss and no sinisterWorldDominationU.N.secretBlackHelicopter conspiracy plans to store Little Jimmy's fingerprints in the uber- secret Tri-Lateral vaults under the Illuminati building at Miskatonic U.

*shrug*

No skin off my snout if you don't want to use our free service.

LawDog

JoshM14
August 17, 2004, 07:55 PM
Personally, if I had kids, I'd get them printed. By someone I trust, somewhere outside the police station, and I'd keep the copies myself. If they're ever needed, I have them.

Just an FYI, in my neck of the woods, all the local stations will print you/the kids and give you the cards. Monroe Wa dose it and charges $20.00 (4 if you live in town), no record, just ink and a card they hand you (I needed sets for my FL CCW) they were quite friendly.

Michigander
August 17, 2004, 08:12 PM
You know, I can't find the part of the news story that points out that the thumb-prints are done digitally.

Yeah. Makes me wonder what was cut out in the " ... " section of the following quote:

"We printed a copy of the card and were able to have a picture and description ... within five minutes," he said.

Art Eatman
August 17, 2004, 09:07 PM
Some sort of "identikit" for kids has long been available. This system just simplifies the process.

SFAIK, many hospitals routinely ink footprints of infants; this has gone on for many decades.

Art

sumpnz
August 17, 2004, 09:29 PM
When my daughter was born a few months ago (at a Birth Center, not a hospital) they did do a foot print, but we were given all copies. They basically just did it as a keepsake for the parents/grandparents. Of course it could also be used as means to ID your kid if something trajic happened, but that's up to the parents.

tcsd1236
August 17, 2004, 10:44 PM
When my daughter was born a few months ago (at a Birth Center, not a hospital) they did do a foot print, but we were given all copies. They basically just did it as a keepsake for the parents/grandparents. Of course it could also be used as means to ID your kid if something trajic happened, but that's up to the parents.
Most of those foot prints are unusable because the print is so poorly made.
I printed my kids as soon as their prints were easily taken....around 2 or so, IIRC.

Desertdog
August 18, 2004, 06:14 PM
To me it is too little, too late.

My children, now 23 and 24 years old, were finger printed using the old fashioned ink pad and finger print forms method when they were about 4 years old. I still have the cards in my files.

I am not sure I would trust the officials if they are using the digital scan. What is to keep them from keeping a copy for themselves?

kbsrn
August 18, 2004, 07:05 PM
"No skin off my snout if you don't want to use our free service.

LawDog"

Lawdog there is nothing free about it. We paid for it and the least that could be done is that it is used to provide the taxpayers with the most payback on it's cost.

atek3
August 19, 2004, 02:20 PM
Instead, those IDcards should be CHL permits, so little suzy can pack. An Armed Schoolyard is a polite schoolyard.

atek3

cropcirclewalker
August 19, 2004, 04:23 PM
"No skin off my snout"?

I thought the swine references were not THR :D

LawDog
August 19, 2004, 06:15 PM
Lawdog there is nothing free about it.

The hell there isn't. The computer program was written and donated by one of our detention staff. The printer has been borrowed from the wife of one of our patrol deputies and the cards were bought with money raised by passing the hat during one of our employee association meetings.

The only time any county money gets spent is if some parents come in to the office and one of our deputies does the printing on County time.

When we go to the schools, the officers doing it are donating their time.

When we go to the mall, the officers doing it are donating their time.

No taxpayer money spent.

Free.

LawDog

artherd
August 20, 2004, 12:11 AM
LawDog- of all the things state money should be spent on, that's highly ironic! Kudos to those who donate to make that happen.


Thanks to the information being stored in a sheriff's computer database, it was able to be accessed immediately.

Can't say I like this aspect of that particuliar KidPrint system.

I'd just assume the parents be the sole trustees of their children's private information. I do encourage them having it however. Safe deposit box, or beadroom safe, would be a great location for this sort of thing.

kbsrn
August 20, 2004, 09:35 AM
Wrong.
Who paid for the computer, the vehicle to transport it, the uniforms the deputies where when it is is used, the buidlings it is used in, and on and on, and on.
It is nice the deputies have voluteered to do these thing, but the cosklt is born by the taxpayers and the police should never forget that.
Personally I think that is the problem, many police police forget they are there to do job of protecting the public, not of forcing the public to act in a manner pleasing to the government.

Art Eatman
August 20, 2004, 10:13 AM
kbsrn, you're really nit-picking. They already had the computer and the uniforms. Yeah, it might be more accurate to say no "additional" costs, but it certainly isn't some Federally Funded Program so beloved of bureaucrats.

If you have that view of the police in your area, you probably oughta move. A heckuva lot of us live in places where it's just not that way at all. I suggest you not project your local problems in some all-inclusive slam at LEOs in general...

For instance, in my home county, the sheriff is from an old-settler family. If he gets out of line, somebody will gripe to his daddy. I've known one of my local deputies since he was a pup; the other local deputy is a shooter. I know he's a good guy; he loves 1911s. :)

Art

kbsrn
August 20, 2004, 10:35 AM
I wasn't slamming the police. I just really get tired of government people talking as though there is no cost to what they are doing. Everything that they do costs you and me, and everyone else money out of our pockets that could be spent on our own children. Sometimes this is well spent money and sometimes it isn't, but they, government employees, have to remember that nothing is free, we are paying the bill.

And no I wasn't "nit-picking" what LawDog posted wasn't accurate or complete, I was just pointing that out.

AF_INT1N0
August 20, 2004, 10:51 AM
I'm not sure I like the idea of the fingerprinting done in schools though. If you want your child participating in that sort of thing great. Just keep it away from those who don't.

Schools are getting awfully darn forceful about what they think is "good for the children".

It wouldn't surprise me to have some well meaning principle IDing the kids without the knowledge of the parents. Heck you could do it in DARE class and no one would be the wiser.

tcsd1236
August 20, 2004, 10:56 AM
but they, government employees, have to remember that nothing is free, we are paying the bill.
You act like we aren't taxpayers ourselves.

gbelleh
August 20, 2004, 11:07 AM
What is the specific danger in the police having records of kids' fingerprints? Hopefully, the kids will have their fingerprints on file when they eventually get their CHLs anyway.

tcsd1236
August 20, 2004, 03:17 PM
What is the specific danger in the police having records of kids' fingerprints? Hopefully, the kids will have their fingerprints on file when they eventually get their CHLs anyway.

The more paranoid types see that as an intrusion on their personal freedom, having their info on file like that. The more conservative of them will even obect to having to get the CCW you mention to carry a gun in public.

kbsrn
August 20, 2004, 08:55 PM
have an actual understanding of the US Cont. and know that they should not need a permit.


"The more paranoid types see that as an intrusion on their personal freedom, having their info on file like that. The more conservative of them will even obect to having to get the CCW you mention to carry a gun in public."

LawDog
August 20, 2004, 11:29 PM
Wrong.
Who paid for the computer,

It is the personal laptop, belonging to one of our IA deputies. It was paid for by his parents, who gave it to him as a gift last Christmas, best of my knowledge.

the vehicle to transport it,
When we transport, the equipment goes in whatever personally-owned vehicle is handy.

the uniforms the deputies where when it is is used,
When we set up to use it, we wear a golf shirt with out association logo on it. Each shirt costs the officer wearing it $20.

the buidlings it is used in,

Since we normally set up in the mall, whoever built the mall paid for the building.

and on and on, and on.
It is nice the deputies have voluteered to do these thing,

We volunteered the entire program, from equipment to software to time. Every bit of equipment was donated or volunteered by one of our officers. Every bit of software was donated or volunteered by one of our officers. 99% of the time used by the project is donated by our officers. The locations used are donated by the people who own the buildings.

but the cosklt is born by the taxpayers and the police should never forget that.

No, it's not. The taxpayers did not, do not, and will not bear any of the cost, unless you count the occasional five minutes when a parent who can't wait for us to set up in public comes to the office. And that is a very rare occasion.

And no I wasn't "nit-picking" what LawDog posted wasn't accurate or complete, I was just pointing that out.

Yes, you are.
I helped put our program together. I know where the money came from, where the equipment came from and where the personnel and time come from. There was no taxpayer money spent anywhere. There were no funds donated from the Feds. There were no grants from the State. There is no money budgeted by the County.

The only money and equipment used in our project comes out of the wallets of our officers and staff.

LawDog

sm
August 21, 2004, 12:27 AM
LawDog - My thumbs up to you , the Dept and the Assoc.

Folks - I'm out of line here , but I don't care. Enough of the Negative Nit-Picking.

Yes I have some some LEO friends , I have been tossed in a cell [ they do that when you drive DWI even my friend LEOs did this to me...been some 20 yrs ago since I last drank...no hatred or nothing, I was wrong and they had a job to do- simple]

Some LEO are Jerks and even Peer LEO don't like them. Guess What ? True of any Business or Profession. Be it Gun Forums, or the Burger Flipper. Be careful of that wide paintbrush.

Do you have a CCW, been in the Miitary, LEO, Work for a Brokerage firm, ever had a Gov't job...? .etc. They have your prints .

We had LEO(s) volunteer time [ Read Free , on Their Off time] to give the legal or assist with giving the legal portion of AR CCW [ way it is set up here] They also did the fingerprints using the equipment owned / by one of the instructors. These LEO would also volunteer time , reload ammo, and help assist students. Many would meet up and help give shooting lessons before the CCW class, continue to instruct and brought their own guns for students o try before they buy. Even Spouses helped out - women LEO or lady spouses helping with holsters and other stuff we thought the ladies might be more comfortable with another lady giving perspective.

Now if they wanted to implant microchips or something - pitch a fit.

We had a Morgan Alert here in AR - specifically Mississipi County, they found the child's body Thurday Night.

My apologies to LawDog and other Mods....but folks, We have good and bad representatives in anything. Including the members here on THR -

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