Are there any laws limiting ammo ownership?


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possenti
August 17, 2004, 10:04 PM
We've all seen news reports where police have seized a large "cache" of ammunition from a person's home. The number of rounds is usually in the 1000's, and naturally a few guns are found also. The other circumstances of the alleged crime are sometimes not even mentioned in the same news story. Of course, this implies that the suspect's crime is possesing a large amount of ammo, but I've never seen a law cited by the media that says there is a limit to how much ammo a person can own.

Are there any laws - anywhere in the US - that specify ammo limits? It wouldn't surprise me to learn that CA and some New England states have them, but the "ammo cache" news reports seem to come from everywhere.
Or is the media simply trying to scare the sheeple and/or 'enforce' laws that aren't even on the books?

I know - many of us here think these reported numbers are merely a Sunday afternoon supply at the range, but to the average Joe, they get quite scared that someone has that much lead and brass lying around.

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Ohen Cepel
August 17, 2004, 10:13 PM
I'm not aware of any.

However, they can get you for improper storage and labeling in some cases. Think it's a misdeamenor. They tagged in guy in the Baltimore area for it recently.

Joey2
August 17, 2004, 10:24 PM
I don't know and I don't care I am a reloader and I shoot what I reload. I reload somewhere around 6 calibers. Sometimes I may have 1000 + reloads around the house 1 wk. and nothing the next.

I have 4 shooters in my home and we can go through a lot of ammo.

whm1974
August 17, 2004, 10:31 PM
Even if some states have laws on how much ammo you have at one time it would be very hard to enforce as no one will obey it. It will also be rather easy to get around, just buy a box or two of ammo everytime you go to Wal-mart.

-Bill

RJ357
August 17, 2004, 10:34 PM
Sounds like it's only if it's relation to another crime.

A large purchase however, can get the attention of the BATF. And a visit.

Ewok
August 17, 2004, 10:35 PM
If I buy any more, I may be breaking the law of gravity. ;)

Gameface
August 17, 2004, 10:46 PM
What's this about labeling? I wasn't aware of any labeling requirements.

Gameface

Larry Ashcraft
August 17, 2004, 11:01 PM
When we went to the NRA Whittington Center in June, we had over 7000 rounds of ammo in the trunk of Sandy's Taurus.

If we broke any laws, I sure didn't know about it (or care).

Ex-Doc
August 17, 2004, 11:07 PM
If its breaking a law it tends to be a local fire code that tends to also reference the storage of paint, gas, etc.

In CA they are trying to pass laws to track your ammo purchases:uhoh:

CleverNickname
August 17, 2004, 11:30 PM
There are no federal quantity limits, but there are some bans on certain types of ammo, "armor-piercing" handgun ammo, for one.

iamkris
August 17, 2004, 11:38 PM
I hope there isn't as I have roughly 10,000 rounds down in my gun room for the 17 odd calibers I shoot.

Edmond
August 17, 2004, 11:38 PM
When we went to the NRA Whittington Center in June, we had over 7000 rounds of ammo in the trunk of Sandy's Taurus.

If we broke any laws, I sure didn't know about it (or care).

Wow, I'd be more concerned about breaking the car!:p

Daniel964
August 17, 2004, 11:48 PM
Dang ! I just did a rough count and I've only got about 13,000 rounds counting my .22LR. I need to start shopping some more I thought I had about 20,000.

whm1974
August 18, 2004, 12:03 AM
A large purchase however, can get the attention of the BATF. And a visit.

What would be considered a large purchase? would buying a case(1000 rds) or two online be consided a large purchase?

-Bill

Ian
August 18, 2004, 03:21 AM
would buying a case(1000 rds) or two online be consided a large purchase?

Not in my experience. My biggest purchase was the mail-order of 2500 rounds of rifle ammo (.223 and .303). Never heard a word about it from anyone, though the UPS guy probably wasn't thrilled.

dukeofurl
August 18, 2004, 04:27 AM
Your title asks "Are there any laws limiting ammo ownership? "

IIRC, Federal law prohibits those prohibited from owning a firearm from owning ammo as well. This includes ammunition components.

I could be wrong, it was in last years FL publication of the green book.

TheOtherOne
August 18, 2004, 05:01 AM
Not in my experience. My biggest purchase was the mail-order of 2500 rounds of rifle ammo (.223 and .303). Never heard a word about it from anyone, though the UPS guy probably wasn't thrilled.I don't know how they would know either.

Unless the business you bought from decided to volunteer the information to the FBI or something. I don't think there is any law that says something like "If 10,000+ rounds are purchased please call the ATF".

obiwan1
August 18, 2004, 12:09 PM
The only laws that I'm aware of are financial................... How much can you afford:neener:

Edmond
August 18, 2004, 12:22 PM
On the other hand, wouldn't you be flagged if you bought 3 or more firearms?

Ian
August 18, 2004, 01:09 PM
IIRC, it's two or more that get you a multiple gun purchase form. A gun shop employee would have the details...

flatrock
August 18, 2004, 02:30 PM
There's a group of us from the range I frequent that are putting together a group buy to get better pricing. I think at last count we were looking at buying between 25,000 and 30,000 rounds.

When I buy online I usually buy 500 or a 1000 rounds in the same caliber.

If the BATF wants to give me a call I'll tell them that I started competition shooting and have been practicing a lot. I'd even be happy to give them the name of the range where they can verify that I shoot competitions and need the practice.

If they want to come to my house and look around, they'll need a warrant. I don't have anything to hide, but they don't have any business snooping around my house either.

MaceWindu
August 18, 2004, 02:30 PM
I just had about 7000 rounds delivered by the UPS guy. The BATFE can kiss my %$@$%^&.

Is it illegal to own too many SUV's? Knives?

Buy it cheap and stck it deep.

MaceWindu

biere
August 18, 2004, 09:29 PM
The most I have ordered at once is 4K rounds, and since it was heavy and what not it showed up in seperate boxes over 2-3 days. No problems anywhere, and I offered the ups guy an ice cold mountain dew and he was really happy.

The only time you run into laws is with black powder that is a bit more of a problem to store than smokeless powder or loaded ammo. In that case you wander into "powder magazine" or whatever they call it.

Now and then some places talk about how dangerous ammo is in a fire. Research on the net shows that a round not contained in a barrel or other item able to handle high pressure will pop open at a low enough velocity to normally be stopped by the jacket firemen and women wear. Ammo boxes and what not are acceptable to store ammo in, the military does it because the boxes bulge and vent gases at a low enough pressure to not create an ammo box bomb.

I should say the laws you don't have a problem with are federal. Some places in some states are a pain. In ohio I don't know if they are after ammo but they can certainly have some laws around certain towns and cities that make it difficult to visit folks and bring any gun without checking the laws first.

Overall, buy surplus ammo when you can get it cheap and get into reloading. I did some reading on primers and really pay attention to how those suckers get stored.

And with how insurance companies go after some dogs, I don't know if you want to ask about storing 10k or 20k or more rounds of ammo in your house, and asking about "replacement value".

I am not an expert, I have never had a problem, I don't ask questions I don't want the answer to with my insurance or fire or police, and overall I like to shoot and will handle things by dealing with the fall out when there is fall out. Gee, sounds like I stick my head in the sand a bit.

Dead
August 18, 2004, 09:54 PM
I dont have ammo so I am ok.. That being said you should beable to buy all you want! Well as long as you have room for it that is, having to leave some in the fridge might not be a good idea.... :D

RJ357
August 18, 2004, 10:21 PM
A large purchase however, can get the attention of the BATF. And a visit.
(me)

Actually happened. A local range member helped his friend select an assortment of guns. The best gun in each of the popular calibers. His friend then ordered about 5000 rounds for each.

Nice to be rich.

SOT_II
August 18, 2004, 10:39 PM
No federal ones save if you are a dealer and you have DD's. there are storage requirements.

Some states have rules as well as check your local fire code.

carebear
August 18, 2004, 11:12 PM
Check your lease if you rent.

As a landlord i have boilerplate on storage of ammo (along with other flammables) in my leases.

I'm gonna change it to allow for me to seize and "destroy" the ammo.

:D

papaone
August 19, 2004, 06:51 AM
First: On another forum a guy said he ordered 11k rounds of surplus and was visited.

Second: Please tell me what "IIRC" means.

Thanks all:)

Ohen Cepel
August 19, 2004, 07:36 AM
The labeling thing they tagged the guy in MD with came from the HAZMAT regulations. It's these regs that require an arms room in the military to have the orange number 4 in the diamond marking it. Lets the fire guys know there may be ammo present.

Bit iffy for a home though and it was only because they were going after him for other stuff. However, I think those charges stuck.

Really, on my give a sh*t list it's pretty low.

possenti
August 19, 2004, 07:39 AM
IIRC = If I Recall Correctly

Another one I just figured out is:

AFAIK = As Far As I Know

Hope that helps.

papaone
August 19, 2004, 07:54 AM
Thanks for your help. :) ;)

1911Tuner
August 19, 2004, 08:03 AM
No laws on the books, as far as I know...but it's a distinct possibility that if
your large cache of say...25,000 rounds of various calibers were to be inadvertently discovered, it would at the very least raise a lot of eyebrows.

"What do you NEED with that much ammunition, Comrade"?:scrutiny:

"Are you a...terrorist"?

Also a possibility of confiscation on some inane reasoning. You'd get it back, of course...but in what condition? After how long? How much red
tape and playing of 20 Questions would you have to endure to get your property back?

Said it once, and I'll say it again. "They" know that they can't get all the guns, so "They" will come after the ammo. The right to keep and bear arms is covered too well. Ammunition isn't. They'll eventually get around to that particular loophole.

jamz
August 19, 2004, 09:32 AM
The People's Republic of Massachusetts does indeed have such a law.

I can't look it up right now, but it is on the order of you cna't have more than something like 5,000 rounds in any given caliber, or 10,000 centerfire rounds total. You can, in addition to this, have 5 or 10,000 rimfire ammunition. I'll try to find the link, in case anyone wants yet another reason to not move to MA.

-James

jamz
August 19, 2004, 09:41 AM
Here it is, from the GOAL website: http://www.goal.org/FAQ/powder.htm

This falls under fire prevention regulations, or something like that. Very sneaky, very under the radar. Watch out, you other states!


(1) Exemption: License, Registration, or Permit: In accordance with the provisions of M.G.L. c. 148 ยง 13, the Board hereby prescribes the following quantities of explosive materials that shall be exempt from License, Registration, and Permit and may be kept, or stored in a building or other structure:

(a) Small Arms Ammunition

1. Not more than 10,000 rounds of rim fire ammunition.

2. Not more than 10,000 rounds of center fire ammunition.

3. Not more than 5,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition.

(b) Small Arms Ammunition Primers

1. Not more than 1,000 caps or other small arms primers.

(c) Smokeless Propellants

1. Not more than 16 pounds.

2. Persons under 18 years of age may not keep or store Smokeless Propellants.

3. Not more than two pounds of such propellant shall be stored in a multiple family dwelling or a building of public access.

(d) Black Powder

1. Not more than two pounds.

2. Persons under 18 years of age may not keep or store black powder.

(e) Exempt quantities of small arms ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black powder shall be stored in original containers and such containers shall be stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use.

(f) Special industrial explosive devices when in quantities of less than 50 pounds net weight of explosives.


Anything more than this, and you need a permit to store hazardous stuff in your storage place.


Granteed, their link to the MA general laws is broken, so I'm not sure if this law is still around, and I can't seem to find it in the MA general Laws, but GOAL usually know their stuff.

-James

Larry Ashcraft
August 19, 2004, 11:06 AM
1. Not more than 1,000 caps or other small arms primers.
Uh-Oh. I'd be running to the store every two hours when I'm loading .45 ACP.

Justin
August 19, 2004, 12:24 PM
Of course, this implies that the suspect's crime is possesing a large amount of ammo, but I've never seen a law cited by the media that says there is a limit to how much ammo a person can own. The only law being broken is the one that will get you convicted in the court of public opinion.

whm1974
August 19, 2004, 12:28 PM
1. Not more than 1,000 caps or other small arms primers.

Good God! Reloaders in MA can't have more then one box of primers at home? Just how does MA enforce these laws? After all people can just buy a box of ammo or primers, and a pound of powder at a time and build a stockpile...

-Bill

LASur5r
August 19, 2004, 12:44 PM
Yes, In Pasadena...California of course, they have a zoning law that if you buy ammunition, you have to register at the store for each box of ammunition that you purchase in a Pasadena store. All of the pertinent information is logged by the store folks and a copy of that record must be maintained for Pasadena PD to check on in case a gun is used within the city, then they can check the bullet (if recovered) and they feel that they can trace that box of ammunition to you, the registered owner of the ammunition.
that way, they can trace that deadly bullet to you....so when Big Brother shows up at your door...they can just walk you off to the local jail.
Aaaarrrghhh!:barf: :barf:

Mornard
August 19, 2004, 02:31 PM
None that I intend to ever obey...

Rimmer
August 19, 2004, 03:55 PM
Jeeze, reading this prompted me to do a count...
I need to stick to my original supply strategy, open a case, order a case.

Jack19
August 19, 2004, 07:30 PM
Check out 29 CFR 1910.109(j)

WT
August 19, 2004, 08:37 PM
New York City limits possession by an individual to 200 rounds. Keeping more than 200 rounds requires a city permit.

GSB
August 19, 2004, 10:26 PM
I think at last count we were looking at buying between 25,000 and 30,000 rounds.

Your delivery guy is just going to love you, isn't he? ;)

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